(Don't) Fear The Reaper: A Dark Knight Guide

Ironically, Chango actually NEEDS that extra TP Bonus advantage to even compete with Torcleaver, because it's a far weaker WS. However, this isn't about "TP speed", but effective TP. If you put both DRK and WAR in the same party with Warcry, with DRK having 600 less effective TP due to gear, Torcleaver hits harder at a lower TP value than Upheaval does. Evidently not, according to the 2 links at the bottom of this post (there's an effective difference of 4k damage at both attack cap and uncap between the jobs). Corrected*


We need context, because this is kind of misleading if we use the "eye test" and only reveal limited sim parameters.

LR lasts 3 minutes, is down for 70 seconds. What exactly are you fighting in a side-by-side comparison vs WAR where the DRK loses it's attack speed for a minute, but Warrior also doesn't lose their Warcry bonus (which can't last more than 60 seconds without Diamond Aspis)? What is WAR using for support job, SAM for Hasso or DRG for WS Bonus trait? If it's SAM, the WARs WS damage will be lower than the DRKs. If the DRK is subbing SAM, the JA Haste loss is insconsequential. So you have to post the entire thing, because either WAR will have inferior TP speed or inferior WS damage.

What are the total numbers for white damage/ws damage split in your parameters? Is attack capped?

Also, AM3 building isn't necessarily a thing if what we are talking about is fights sub 1 minute. That's an unfair comparison if you say "Well, DRK needs to build 3k TP so it's white damage would be higher in a short fight, but WAR can WS right away with Warcry and get 2-3 WS off before DRK gets one off." If what you are saying is DRK needs AM3 to compete in terms of total damage vs a WAR, then that assumes DRK's WS damage is so far below WARs that it needs that buff to keep up. Caladbolg AM3 is ODT, not OA2/3. So if we are talking a straight WS fight, DRK would use all it's buffs immediately and WS at the requisite TP value. What do the numbers say for WS for each job from your sim?



But what I am saying is it's misleading. It doesn't have anything to do with Prime vs Non Prime. You have to give every parameter and show the actual numbers, or else you are cherry picking buffs in favor of DRK or WAR and not the other and comparing those numbers to each other, instead of doing it in a vacuum with equal parameters, TP bonus gear aside (that advantage clearly goes to WAR).


Would need to see your sets on both jobs. Because if I use these two pages and compare TTWS:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/All_Jobs_Gear_Sets/Warrior
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/All_Jobs_Gear_Sets/Dark_Knight

Using the top end sets for Helheim on WAR and all the other sets on DRK (so both Limbus gear, yes I know, unrealistic but it's just numbers). Both jobs have a near-identical TP speed to 1k. So if what you are saying is that the TP bonus on your WAR gear pushes you to a higher threshold faster than on DRK (which is correct), then we still need to see the actual WS numbers to see the relative damage difference between the two (we can, the links above). "Feeling slow" is only as important to the relative damage you put out at each WS value. If it takes an extra 2 seconds to WS at a higher TP value on DRK but it does like 8k more damage, then you have to add the white damage DRK also accumulated in those two seconds, plus the extra damage from the WS and report back the entire sequence per job.

*For example (straight numbers out of my ***): If DRK takes two seconds slower to hit the same TP at WAR, but deals 8k more damage in those two seconds, plus 8k more WS damage because of higher attack/pdl/souleater bonus and just a better WS being used at the same TP value as WAR, DRK's attack round was 16k damage. If over time the WAR is able to pull off several more WS than DRK (like 5 more due to being able to WS 2 seconds faster), we need to add the extra damage from those WS and compare it to DRKs over the same period of time. You can't say "DRK is slower because i have to wait longer to WS at higher TP" and ignore the damage increase because of it. It has to be controlled because these comparisons can easily be misinterpreted if you are not giving the whole story.

Also, if it takes 8 full seconds to get to enough TP on DRK at the same value as WAR (3 whole seconds longer), I can absolutely see why people would say DRK is slower. But I still think the comparison is flawed just based on how you have presented it.

I'm ngl man you care about this way more than me.

My Drk definitely gets taken to gapplebees by my War DPS wise but I also havent played in a party of people since 2015 so I'm not gonna sit here and say my situation is applicable to others.

My gripe has been the lack of modern STP gear DRK has received compared to WAR/SAM/DRG, which makes DRK feel slower imo. DRK's JSE leans too much into the caster side of the job, none of which obviously does anything to help keep up with tp gain. The balance I guess is DRK is on really tanky sets and has incredible sustain with Foenaria. Now, with fully auged Sworn + Ampulla, you have mythic AM3+2. It's just a miserable grind to get there.

DRK could use some love, but for what it's worth I don't regret my choice to S5 Foenaria at all. It's absolutely worth the cost with the utility and damage it offers. My only wish is it also had Apoc's aftermath to eliminate LR downtime.

I just looked at the numbers for Anguta/Cross Reaper VS Chango/Upheaval on the Job Sets page for DRK and WAR.

DRK attack uncapped/capped: 43k, 59k
WAR attack uncapped/capped: 39k, 50k

Difference of 4k/9k WS damage using the same class of weapons (Aeonic). This is why I said using limited parameters and cross-comparing weapons is misleading. You are giving 500 TP Bonus for Chango and comparing it to a weapon without and also talking about TP speed in the mix. But when you use Aeonic Scythe in place of Caladbolg, DRK is way ahead of WAR with the same class of weapons because TP bonus is effectively same for both jobs. Now you can argue Warcry pushes the difference further, but my point was context.

There isn't a Chango/Anguta TP set on those pages, so i can't compare the TTWS between both jobs using both weapons, and see the difference in TP speed.


If this is your response, then we can move on because it's a cop out. This is a DRK forum where we discuss the job amongst ourselves. If you don't care to discuss further your experience so others can have context and understand, then why bother share in the first place? Don't take it as personal that I am trying to have a discussion about the comments shared, I honestly want to understand the points of view. People will read these comments in the future, so the more information we share and talk through will definitely help someone who might ask later on. But if someone makes a claim and has no intention of backing it up, it's kind of trolling and a waste of time.

I agree heavily. I have battled with going to Nyame path A for a few pieces for a while, but haven't been able to justify losing WSD path. There's a mismatch of STP gear that DRK uses, but it's all mostly a defensive liability compared to other options. Thankfully, that's why Foenaria/Origin is so good IMO; You can afford to use outdated/squishy sets of gear because you have a free heal (until you miss at 200HP and die :p) every couple of seconds. So you feel the sting of having less STP options less than other jobs would.

Drk swings like a turtle

Maybe the Anguta/Cross Reaper thing is the solution, never heard anyone say anything remotely good about that and everyone points to Caladbolg for pre-prime damage.

I just don't care to get into an argument about sim parameters or event styles when I know I play very casually and probably differently than you or most. Was just adding my experiences as someone that decided they wanted to do a Drk project randomly not that long ago.

Yeah don't take it as an argument, just a discussion. Knowledge transfer. You are sharing information and I'm trying to understand/counter/correct with my own thinking, but based on actual information. I have no motive for proving I'm right and I welcome being incorrect or learning what I didn't know. No emotions here.

Experiences from non top level players are just as valuable (if not more valuable) than the feedback from top level players, since the are probably more people who are in a similar situation. So it's not a matter of your feedback is irrelevant. I only asked for context. Someone will read this conversation and it will benefit them, so I like adding as much information as possible so the meaning isn't lost. Not about caring more or less.

In any case, Anguta is highly competitive with Cross Reaper. Thing is, everyone almost always uses comps that cater to "all the buffs", and nothing else. So what you get is people who only ever recommend one set of gear/weapons and fully exclude others. Caladbolg is just simply stronger than Anguta by virtue of Torcleaver being boosted with augments and Anguta needing to use a WS that scales favorably with TP but not necessarily the one joined to the weapon. But doesn't mean Anguta is weak. Now I don't use my Anguta for much because Foenaria exists (used it in a Sortie to specifically avoid making a specific SC), but at least prior to primes, it was an excellent Aeonic weapon for something like Mboze KI1 Softening strat. Nobody brings it up anymore because it's lolAnguta/lolDRK. But it's a fairly strong weapon still. I only brought it up as a comparison because you focused on the tp bonus aspect of Chango. So it was a way of discussing the point about DRK being slower, because it has a longer time to get to requisite effective TP value vs Warrior. The point made was that the TTWS can be reduced further with the Aeonic scythe, not necessarily that it's optimal.

Gonna have to agree with the majority here:

-DRK feels slow as molasses when LR is down. I can feel the difference without even looking at my buff bar. It's often hard to keep up even a 3-step SC, even with a strong Samurai Roll
-WAR not only does better WS damage, but also brings way more to the group

I'd guess the reason DRK was beating WAR in your group was:
-They got Warcry from the WAR
-No subjobs, making it more even
-The WAR was using some shitty weapon like Chango?

We've tried Kalunga and some other fights (Mboze, etc.) with WAR and DRK, and WAR is always much better, when comparing them separately. The 1hrs are also MASSIVELY different. MS is like 5x more impactful than SE.

For TP rate, something that I don't think is getting enough attention here is Retaliation, especially when using 2h weapons. It won't show up on the sim (because it can't), but WAR retaliating against 1-5 enemies makes their TP absolutely blow the *** up. Plus Fencer, fulltime Berserk, Warcry (both for themselves and the party), and better 1hrs, it's just not a competition.

DRK-wise, I'm in a similar position to the rest of you. I have every DRK REMA, Foenaria, and Father Time. I've played it quite a lot in segments, a ton in Limbus, a bunch in Sortie, and on a few Gaol bosses. I've seen parses with lots of different friends' DRKs as well as mine, and it's consistently behind.

Fun job, very durable, offers some neat tricks, but pound-for-pound on damage/TTWS, it's not there.

Granted: I haven't messed around with Hoxne. It might make DRK play better or be more competitive, IDK.

WAR is a basic job, while DRK is an advanced job!
Clearly DRK is the stronger DD job!!!

You should make Foenaria stage 5 because it looks cool while you're standing in town afk.

That's literally its biggest selling point. *** knows its selling point is not max deeps.