The New Embrava And PD

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2010-06-21
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The New embrava and PD
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-10-23 16:36:44  
Rolling takes too long.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-10-23 16:37:35  
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?

Well no not really, I wouldn't bring a SCH to nyzul at all anymore, and if I did I wouldn't be wasting time waiting for Embrava. BLU just serves to lose little from the Embrava nerf compared to any other DD, and it was already a beast in nyzul.
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 Fenrir.Elliott
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By Fenrir.Elliott 2012-10-23 16:38:06  
Bahamut.Bojack said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Odin.Registry said: »
That puts you at 528?
Regardless of my typo (put 416 instead of 417 base), dafuq is wrong with your math?
417+16+12+3+9+9+3+2+12+15+10+4+5+5+10+10
thats 542, not 528, I dont know how you missed 14 because nothing in there is +14 skill or +13 skill factoring my typo.

Bahamut.Bojack said: »
Well, I see what you're saying if you have cleared it multiple times. I was speaking more from a group that has come so damn close but just can't get there. We've tried about 25-30 tags now and we haven't cleared. We have gotten so close. High 90s a bunch of times, timed out on the boss because of low time and Terror. I was just hoping we'll be able to hit 5 80s in less run than we've tried so far.
If you couldnt hit 100 with Embrava, you're not hitting 80 without embrava, sorry bro.

I can still hope can't I? ;;

What's it hurt to try though right? I'm constantly sitting on 5 assault tags and would love to even attempt Neo Nyzul Isle. I'm not saying one should just throw them away willy nilly, but what is there to lose? This is why it surprises me that there are almost no shouts putting NNI groups together, statics or otherwise. Am I missing something (Other than the fact that it is really difficult/lucky to get to floor 100)?
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-10-23 16:39:49  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?

Well no not really, I wouldn't bring a SCH to nyzul at all anymore, and if I did I wouldn't be wasting time waiting for Embrava. BLU just serves to lose little from the Embrava nerf compared to any other DD, and it was already a beast in nyzul.

This is silly. You still need a healer, and SCH is bet equipped for the job in NNI.
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 Fenrir.Elliott
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By Fenrir.Elliott 2012-10-23 16:40:41  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?

Well no not really, I wouldn't bring a SCH to nyzul at all anymore, and if I did I wouldn't be wasting time waiting for Embrava. BLU just serves to lose little from the Embrava nerf compared to any other DD, and it was already a beast in nyzul.

BLU has always been awesome in Nyzul Isle. I'd never go any other job when doing climbs to 100 back at 75 cap, even when people insisted otherwise. I've always changed their minds by the end of the run, haha.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-10-23 16:41:50  
Embrava can only last what? maybe 4 minutes with Perpetuance and the gloves? So even with the changes in mind, it won't last long enough to use only 2 sch's to keep it up full time.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-10-23 16:41:51  
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?

Well no not really, I wouldn't bring a SCH to nyzul at all anymore, and if I did I wouldn't be wasting time waiting for Embrava. BLU just serves to lose little from the Embrava nerf compared to any other DD, and it was already a beast in nyzul.

This is silly. You still need a healer, and SCH is bet equipped for the job in NNI.

How? SMN + BRD/SCH would be infinitely more useful. Marches, Paeons, Hastega, Movement speed
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-10-23 16:42:19  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?

Well no not really, I wouldn't bring a SCH to nyzul at all anymore, and if I did I wouldn't be wasting time waiting for Embrava. BLU just serves to lose little from the Embrava nerf compared to any other DD, and it was already a beast in nyzul.
Likely still need a healer (dependent on DDs of choice) and AoE regen/phalanx/enspell is pretty cool, plus it can nuke. I'd bring one and leave a BRD at the rune.

This is shockingly heavy-handed and the approach to adjusting PD/Embrava-driven content is unsettling. Merely reducing the HP of monsters that can oneshot you with normal attacks? Bring on the era of EA/Scherzo, I guess.
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 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-10-23 16:42:40  
oh I didn't see the duration MEGA nerf...wow.. That's *** lol
 Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger
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By Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger 2012-10-23 16:42:50  
what is with all the bad math here?
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-10-23 16:44:24  
Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger said: »
what is with all the bad math here?

Care to elaborate, chief?
 Quetzalcoatl.Stik
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By Quetzalcoatl.Stik 2012-10-23 16:45:34  
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-10-23 16:47:23  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?

Well no not really, I wouldn't bring a SCH to nyzul at all anymore, and if I did I wouldn't be wasting time waiting for Embrava. BLU just serves to lose little from the Embrava nerf compared to any other DD, and it was already a beast in nyzul.

This is silly. You still need a healer, and SCH is bet equipped for the job in NNI.

How? SMN + BRD/SCH would be infinitely more useful. Marches, Paeons, Hastega, Movement speed

Brd and sch can provide all that. You're operating it seems on the assumption of empy brd, too, which is unlikely given most capable of that are done with Nyzul.
 Ragnarok.Blurrski
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By Ragnarok.Blurrski 2012-10-23 16:50:24  
I knew 600 wasnt possible, was just being facetious. I have 501 enhancing with kirin pole, and 507 smn with out.


Gonna redo kirin pole with smn skill now maybe, dont give a ***about 25% haste that I'll never use.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-10-23 16:50:54  
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?

Well no not really, I wouldn't bring a SCH to nyzul at all anymore, and if I did I wouldn't be wasting time waiting for Embrava. BLU just serves to lose little from the Embrava nerf compared to any other DD, and it was already a beast in nyzul.

This is silly. You still need a healer, and SCH is bet equipped for the job in NNI.

Agree, however, the gap between SCH and the other healing jobs has been reduced quite a bit, I don't think a SCH is actually required now. So if there isn't one available, its replaceable.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-10-23 16:52:44  
At the least I'd see RDM and WHM as being in the running now. Moreso RDM since it can still retain some damagedealing potential, and thus I don't see it losing much compared to a SCH.
 Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger
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By Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger 2012-10-23 16:54:31  
"Embrava for 210 seconds wow... lol the regain is doable to live without but come on duration too? lordy lordy"

"90 seconds will make it about 500 seconds with AF3+2 hands. Assuming the JA bonus works the way it should. Regardless why make us refresh. We have no use for the TP spell we got and our embrava doesn't give t now. This is insane.

Refresh wont even stack if a sch has sublimgation up. BS."

"535 is the max possible SMN skill at this point."

not to mention the guy that just didn't add things up properly 2 pages back
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-10-23 16:54:44  
Regen V is still a beast. Phalanx, perpetuanced bar paralyze/blizzard, enspells, storm surge, all delicious icing.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-10-23 16:56:14  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
At the least I'd see RDM and WHM as being in the running now. Moreso RDM since it can still retain dome damagedealing potential, and thus I don't see it losing much compared to a SCH.

Relic WHM offers superior support, mp efficiency, and dd potential than rdm!
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-10-23 16:57:13  
whats the max duration for embrava now, officially?
 Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-10-23 16:58:39  
7 minutes 30 seconds.

Nevermind, ignore me, I totally can math durp durp.
 Fenrir.Elliott
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By Fenrir.Elliott 2012-10-23 17:00:03  
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Regen V is still a beast. Phalanx, perpetuanced bar paralyze/blizzard, enspells, storm surge, all delicious icing.

Regen V is nice, but aside from that and storm surge a RDM can do /SCH. I'd say a RDM is definitely viable now, but like I said, I've never done NNI. I can't see the loss of Regen V and storm surge making or breaking a run though.
 Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2012-10-23 17:00:42  
The new RDM 2-hour will be somewhat decent for nyzul for those who still need gear. Floor 80 is not hard to reach at all without embrava. We reached it many times before adopting the SCHx2 strategy.

Anyway, I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm more pissed about the regain being removed from embrava. Not only do I, on ranger, now have to suffer through lolmarches being applied to melees, but I no longer have the regain effect from embrava either--which clearly benefits RNG more than any other DD.

On the bright side, RNG will possibly get to shine even more since they'll likely be the only job with 4 minuets.
 Fenrir.Elliott
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By Fenrir.Elliott 2012-10-23 17:01:00  
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
At the least I'd see RDM and WHM as being in the running now. Moreso RDM since it can still retain dome damagedealing potential, and thus I don't see it losing much compared to a SCH.

Relic WHM offers superior support, mp efficiency, and dd potential than rdm!

I think that all depends on the WHM and RDM in question.
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-10-23 17:01:32  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
whats the max duration for embrava now, officially?
90 sec base using Perp with AF3+2 gloves is 3min45sec, considering the duration of Tabula Rasa is 3.5min if you have the Relic+2 Pants, you can push 7min15secs if you time it perfectly.

More realistically, 7mins.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-10-23 17:01:53  
Sch can accession something every floor, sub sch has 2 charges on long timers.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2012-10-23 17:07:12  
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?
Oh yeah, they'll have 5mp/tick refresh for all of 3 1/2 minutes, blu's gaining so much in NNI from these changes.
 Fenrir.Elliott
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By Fenrir.Elliott 2012-10-23 17:07:27  
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Sch can accession something every floor, sub sch has 2 charges on long timers.

That's true, but the run is only 30 minutes. So how many times do you need to Accession these things? With the gear RDM gets to increase enhancing magic duration I'd think they could manage on two charges just fine.

I'd say the loss of Regen V is the biggest complaint between the two.
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By Bahamut.Bojack 2012-10-23 17:08:36  
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Hidegger said: »
what is with all the bad math here?

Care to elaborate, chief?

Shiva.Viciousss said: »
whats the max duration for embrava now, officially?

Siren.Ihm said: »
7 minutes 30 seconds.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-10-23 17:08:53  
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
I think I see Proth's point. With regain changing to extra refresh, I would think that blu got the biggest boost from this, no?
Oh yeah, they'll have 5mp/tick refresh for all of 3 1/2 minutes, blu's gaining so much in NNI from these changes.

I didn't see the duration nerf before I said that. SOOOOOORRRRRY lol
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