It's testable the same way you test elemental magic skill to Macc.
Get naked, go to a mob, get a large sample of resists.
Add +skill, count the number of resists and then determine how much Macc you got from that based on the difference.
Only one real test was ever done to my knowledge. (At least one that was shared anyways.)
And it was during the 75era...
Namely because ain't nobody got time for that. (Not even the guy who did it once.)
Essentially you don't really need to have a hard grasp on it. Just assume that 1skill = 0.9Macc and you'll have enough. (Though you'll have diehards assert that skill=>Macc is 1:1 for all skill levels always... Even though no other skill to stat conversion works like that...)
And it's kinda even more moot as Ninjitsu skill is what determined base spell damage (like ΔINT and ΔMND for everyone else) as well as acting like MAB.
So skill is more comparable to INT's benefits for NIN nuking: +Macc +BaseDmg "+MAB"
So in a situation where you just have +Macc v +Skill (which shouldn't really ever happen with iLvs) the skill should always win out.
The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
FaeQueenCory said: »
Namely because ain't nobody got time for that.
In any case I included some buffs into the sheet on the previous page of this thread and fixed another minor bug. Tried some different settings to see what we r looking at.
With toally unimaginable buffs I got numbers like 18k dmg per unresisted Ni nuke without MB. Even more for San but lets be reasonable...
Even with feasible buffs (Dunna geo Acumen/Malailse and entrust MAcc, 97 base player Int and 100 enemy Int, no MDB/MDT) a Cor for crooked cards Wizard's Roll and a Sch for Strom II which would all be likely to be found in an SC+MB setup I get 8~9k unresisted Ni, 13k~14k San without MB and ~40k Ni/~64k San MBs on a normal 2-step SC without Futae. Futae pushes San > 99k and Ni to almost 70k.
Bahadir said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
Namely because ain't nobody got time for that.
In any case I included some buffs into the sheet on the previous page of this thread and fixed another minor bug. Tried some different settings to see what we r looking at.
With toally unimaginable buffs I got numbers like 18k dmg per unresisted Ni nuke without MB. Even more for San but lets be reasonable...
Even with feasible buffs (Dunna geo Acumen/Malailse and entrust MAcc, 97 base player Int and 100 enemy Int, no MDB/MDT) a Cor for crooked cards Wizard's Roll and a Sch for Strom II which would all be likely to be found in an SC+MB setup I get 8~9k unresisted Ni, 13k~14k San without MB and ~40k Ni/~64k San MBs on a normal 2-step SC without Futae. Futae pushes San > 99k and Ni to almost 70k.
The Futae gloves are also incredible for Futae nukes. I was a bit surprised at first thinking that all that you lost wouldn't be made up but the extra 24% on the nuke is pretty massive with all multipliers considered.
Also the wording on the Empyrean gloves is interesting. Wiki has them listed as MAB, but the don't match the description on the relic head. I think it may actually be a 14% increase multiplied afterwards.
I don't have the ability to test this though.
FaeQueenCory said: »
Essentially you don't really need to have a hard grasp on it. Just assume that 1skill = 0.9Macc and you'll have enough. (Though you'll have diehards assert that skill=>Macc is 1:1 for all skill levels always... Even though no other skill to stat conversion works like that...)
In the first tier (up to ~200 skill) you get 1:1 skill:acc conversion.
Then it becomes 1:0.85 until ~400 or something, after that it becomes even lower, like 1:0.65.
I can't find the exact numbers, they were in the official english post, could only find the JP translation made by Kincard instead
Link.
Camate or someone else posted an official detailed translation sometime after that post by Kincard but I can't find it.
If someone can you'll see all the details in there.
[+]
how do you all have your hattori gloves coded to stay on for futae nukes in your lua? I cant get mine to stay on, and same I am having issued with my obi. Please help!!! OR if someone has a better lua let me see it.
Replace your job_post_midcast with:
Also, you have two job_post_midcast functions, so you can move the doom lines to the one above if you want that code to work.
Code
function job_post_midcast(spell, action, spellMap, eventArgs)
if spellMap == 'ElementalNinjutsu' then
if spell.element == world.day_element or spell.element == world.weather_element then
equip({waist="Hachirin-no-Obi"})
end
if state.Buff.Futae then
equip(sets.precast.JA['Futae'])
end
end
endAlso, you have two job_post_midcast functions, so you can move the doom lines to the one above if you want that code to work.
You are my most favorite person today. I would buy you a coke :D
That fixed everything and makes me feel like such a lua noob... so easy. I really should read some tutorial someday on luas....
so last part I am having an issue on, I would like to take relic head off on ni and ichi nukes... I am a little lost on how to go about that. Any ideas? I know im missing a good amount of dmg on my ni nukes due to doing it in relic head.
Would something like this work?
if spellMap == "Doton: Ni" or "etc" then
equip({head="Herculean Helm"})
end
That fixed everything and makes me feel like such a lua noob... so easy. I really should read some tutorial someday on luas....
so last part I am having an issue on, I would like to take relic head off on ni and ichi nukes... I am a little lost on how to go about that. Any ideas? I know im missing a good amount of dmg on my ni nukes due to doing it in relic head.
Would something like this work?
if spellMap == "Doton: Ni" or "etc" then
equip({head="Herculean Helm"})
end
So had a hour to test tonight with the spreadsheet. its pretty dang accurate, just a bit of tweaking needs to be done. I went /war this time with no star sylible for testing, no innin, bream sushi only. So we are talking raw dmg using my gear posted before.
saw quite a bit of resists today, guess star gives a good chunk of macc i needed haha. In my testing I set the enemy int to 200 btw on the sheets.
Anyhow doing about 30 mins on each seething and ghatly, just counting non resisted nukes I avged on crabs (tried to avoid pugils today) of 16777 spreadsheet showed 17178 with seething, a difference of 401. Swapping only seething to ghastly tathlum I was at 17043 avg and the spreadsheet showed 17431, a difference of 388.
So we are talking only a 13 difference from changing one piece of gear on the sheets, I will chalk that up to error in my avg's and say its dang accurate. However, the fact It is over 400~ on the sheets says one of 3 things, we are slightly wrong on one part of the formula, or crabs have a mdb I couldnt account for, or the int value is really 208 (at which point i get a value of 17052, thats 9 off my avg).
Kinda neat none the less, now i got to futae and innin test. I am content.
saw quite a bit of resists today, guess star gives a good chunk of macc i needed haha. In my testing I set the enemy int to 200 btw on the sheets.
Anyhow doing about 30 mins on each seething and ghatly, just counting non resisted nukes I avged on crabs (tried to avoid pugils today) of 16777 spreadsheet showed 17178 with seething, a difference of 401. Swapping only seething to ghastly tathlum I was at 17043 avg and the spreadsheet showed 17431, a difference of 388.
So we are talking only a 13 difference from changing one piece of gear on the sheets, I will chalk that up to error in my avg's and say its dang accurate. However, the fact It is over 400~ on the sheets says one of 3 things, we are slightly wrong on one part of the formula, or crabs have a mdb I couldnt account for, or the int value is really 208 (at which point i get a value of 17052, thats 9 off my avg).
Kinda neat none the less, now i got to futae and innin test. I am content.
update to testing:
innin on spreadsheet gives 22167 and I maxed at 21801. Its very hard to get innin in at max but that was within 5~ sec or less of casting it, giving a difference of 366, very dang close to tests before for error between me and mob, but again this is using 208 int now it i put it at 200 its 22661, a difference of 494 now. The avg is 21477 I saw though, but as we know innin decays, and I only nuked for first 30 sec or less of it to try and keep the decay amount down, usually only first 20 sec tbh (2 sc rounds).
one thing greatly apparent to me is futae is not working correct in spreadsheet. Its putting me at 29397 at 200 mob int. I never saw less than 33k~ and often 34k~. I would have to assume 2 things, following my variations from last few posts, 800~ would be expected since that way the difference. However I am seeing a very concrete 4-5k difference. The only clear way I could explain this is that in the spreadsheet we only gave hattori+1 its 14% and never the 'futae+24' which i could never figure out. However if Adding that is as MAB (doubled) for an effective 62 MAB gives a futae nuke with said stats of 34181. Using error of about 400 over from most of these posts of mine, we can see this is just shy of 34k, which is again very close :D
overall pretty cool testing for me. I like nin nuking a lot. And now that I know how close the spreadsheet really is it will be easier now to gear up for BEST nuking set and see if we can start rolling some high *** avgs to make them blms cry!
I think for me, at this point in time using the spreadsheet it is easy enough to remember take dmg it gives -400 (and give hattori 62 MAB not 14 for futae nukes), and your close enough. I could care less at this point to test much more, unless people are interested. Please let me know, or go veryify yourself to get another eye on this!
innin on spreadsheet gives 22167 and I maxed at 21801. Its very hard to get innin in at max but that was within 5~ sec or less of casting it, giving a difference of 366, very dang close to tests before for error between me and mob, but again this is using 208 int now it i put it at 200 its 22661, a difference of 494 now. The avg is 21477 I saw though, but as we know innin decays, and I only nuked for first 30 sec or less of it to try and keep the decay amount down, usually only first 20 sec tbh (2 sc rounds).
one thing greatly apparent to me is futae is not working correct in spreadsheet. Its putting me at 29397 at 200 mob int. I never saw less than 33k~ and often 34k~. I would have to assume 2 things, following my variations from last few posts, 800~ would be expected since that way the difference. However I am seeing a very concrete 4-5k difference. The only clear way I could explain this is that in the spreadsheet we only gave hattori+1 its 14% and never the 'futae+24' which i could never figure out. However if Adding that is as MAB (doubled) for an effective 62 MAB gives a futae nuke with said stats of 34181. Using error of about 400 over from most of these posts of mine, we can see this is just shy of 34k, which is again very close :D
overall pretty cool testing for me. I like nin nuking a lot. And now that I know how close the spreadsheet really is it will be easier now to gear up for BEST nuking set and see if we can start rolling some high *** avgs to make them blms cry!
I think for me, at this point in time using the spreadsheet it is easy enough to remember take dmg it gives -400 (and give hattori 62 MAB not 14 for futae nukes), and your close enough. I could care less at this point to test much more, unless people are interested. Please let me know, or go veryify yourself to get another eye on this!
Asura.Azagarth said: »
You are my most favorite person today. I would buy you a coke :D
That fixed everything and makes me feel like such a lua noob... so easy. I really should read some tutorial someday on luas....
so last part I am having an issue on, I would like to take relic head off on ni and ichi nukes... I am a little lost on how to go about that. Any ideas? I know im missing a good amount of dmg on my ni nukes due to doing it in relic head.
Would something like this work?
if spellMap == "Doton: Ni" or "etc" then
equip({head="Herculean Helm"})
end
That fixed everything and makes me feel like such a lua noob... so easy. I really should read some tutorial someday on luas....
so last part I am having an issue on, I would like to take relic head off on ni and ichi nukes... I am a little lost on how to go about that. Any ideas? I know im missing a good amount of dmg on my ni nukes due to doing it in relic head.
Would something like this work?
if spellMap == "Doton: Ni" or "etc" then
equip({head="Herculean Helm"})
end
spellMap is kind of like a group name that Mote assigns to various spells so that you can easily "catch" it in your rules. The spellMap for all the elemental Ninjutsu spells is ElementalNinjutsu. This will not change unless you change it (either in the mappings include, or by using the customize_spell_map() function).
spell.english will return the name of the spell in English (I tend to use this instead of spell.name because some people on the forums play the game in another language).
That said, to address your request, there are two ways you can do it: put head1 on for non-San spells, or head2 on for San spells. Since it'd take less effort to do the latter, and the head that you want to equip in the alternative is far more likely to change in the future than the San head, it'd be better to have the "default" head in your set, and make a rule for putting on the AF2 head.
Code
function job_post_midcast(spell, action, spellMap, eventArgs)
if spellMap == 'ElementalNinjutsu' then
if spell.english:contains(': San') then
equip({head="Mochi. Hatsuburi +1"})
end
if spell.element == world.day_element or spell.element == world.weather_element then
equip({waist="Hachirin-no-Obi"})
end
if state.Buff.Futae then
equip(sets.precast.JA['Futae'])
end
end
endWe can just look for the ': San' string because we know that that condition won't be read unless we are dealing with ElementalNinjutsu (in other words, it will never accidentally pick up Utsusemi: San, etc.).
Also, don't need to list augments on a gear unless you need to distinguish it from another piece with the same name.
Ok I think I am catching on, but I can get this to work. I currently have these relic feet on for every fc set, But id like to use my herc with FC6 instead obviously and just relic on san nukes.
Code
function job_post_precast(spell, action, spellMap, eventArgs)
if spellMap == 'ElementalNinjutsu' then
if spell.english:contains(': San') then
equip({feet="Mochi. Kyahan +1"})
end
end
endCan or can't? It looks like it should work o:
If it's not, then you probably are overwriting it with another job_post_precast function (you have one for handling Lugra earring).
If it's not, then you probably are overwriting it with another job_post_precast function (you have one for handling Lugra earring).
So I just copy and pasted it below the lugra since I know I had that working, seems to have done the trick (had it before the midcast stuff before), but also seems to be cluttery my code haha, when I tried adding it into the lugra no errors, but no changes in game... well atleast i got it working it seems :D
Thx a lot for the tests! Good to hear that the sheet is not so far off :)
I mentioned that in the sheet: was lazy so far and Hattori+1 effect on Futae is NOT yet considered!
I can change once I have some time.
Asura.Azagarth said: »
The only clear way I could explain this is that in the spreadsheet we only gave hattori+1 its 14% and never the 'futae+24' which i could never figure out.
I mentioned that in the sheet: was lazy so far and Hattori+1 effect on Futae is NOT yet considered!
I can change once I have some time.
If the bonus for ninjutsu goes above 475 then 2xOchu w/ 10 Ninjutsu augmented each may easily be the best weapons for bursting.
eliroo said: »
If the bonus for ninjutsu goes above 475 then 2xOchu w/ 10 Ninjutsu augmented each may easily be the best weapons for bursting.
But could some1 check how if we can get reasonable MAcc on 135+ content on SCs? Cause with super revit and random deal + wildcard that would mean 4-5 Futae nukes in a row which could be quite nice.
I think it will be to viable.
I was doing dazzling dolores yesterday (forgot ochu! only had kanaria on). Only got a few nukes off but all did in the high7-8k~ range, no other buffs though that would affect magic. Not terrible at all for extra dmg, and that was base nukes, I didnt futae them since I was tanking and forgot lol, which also means no innin.
I am unsure if this is a resist or not, since if it was resisted this ment ALL I did got resisted (very possible). Easily if I had used 2 maxed ochus on said nm, I am fairly confident in 10k nukes instead of those 8k. Add a bit better gear and I can see 12k. Now if this is the resisted nukes, that will mean regular nukes will do 24k, which holds true to my apex testing for same scenario in gear/buffs roughly, not bad at all!!
I will try and grab my geo+sch+cor buddies and do some testing. If this does become viable we may have found a very niche use for nin endgame. The fact nin could lower ele resistance -30 more for an alliance, backup tank when ***hits the wall, and sc (I would hit enough acc for most 135 content on my nin with max innin cp and master) givs it a very unique spot.
I was doing dazzling dolores yesterday (forgot ochu! only had kanaria on). Only got a few nukes off but all did in the high7-8k~ range, no other buffs though that would affect magic. Not terrible at all for extra dmg, and that was base nukes, I didnt futae them since I was tanking and forgot lol, which also means no innin.
I am unsure if this is a resist or not, since if it was resisted this ment ALL I did got resisted (very possible). Easily if I had used 2 maxed ochus on said nm, I am fairly confident in 10k nukes instead of those 8k. Add a bit better gear and I can see 12k. Now if this is the resisted nukes, that will mean regular nukes will do 24k, which holds true to my apex testing for same scenario in gear/buffs roughly, not bad at all!!
I will try and grab my geo+sch+cor buddies and do some testing. If this does become viable we may have found a very niche use for nin endgame. The fact nin could lower ele resistance -30 more for an alliance, backup tank when ***hits the wall, and sc (I would hit enough acc for most 135 content on my nin with max innin cp and master) givs it a very unique spot.
Asura.Azagarth said: »
I think it will be to viable.
I was doing dazzling dolores yesterday (forgot ochu! only had kanaria on). Only got a few nukes off but all did in the high7-8k~ range, no other buffs though that would affect magic. Not terrible at all for extra dmg, and that was base nukes, I didnt futae them since I was tanking and forgot lol, which also means no innin.
I am unsure if this is a resist or not, since if it was resisted this ment ALL I did got resisted (very possible). Easily if I had used 2 maxed ochus on said nm, I am fairly confident in 10k nukes instead of those 8k. Add a bit better gear and I can see 12k. Now if this is the resisted nukes, that will mean regular nukes will do 24k, which holds true to my apex testing for same scenario in gear/buffs roughly, not bad at all!!
I will try and grab my geo+sch+cor buddies and do some testing. If this does become viable we may have found a very niche use for nin endgame. The fact nin could lower ele resistance -30 more for an alliance, backup tank when ***hits the wall, and sc (I would hit enough acc for most 135 content on my nin with max innin cp and master) givs it a very unique spot.
I was doing dazzling dolores yesterday (forgot ochu! only had kanaria on). Only got a few nukes off but all did in the high7-8k~ range, no other buffs though that would affect magic. Not terrible at all for extra dmg, and that was base nukes, I didnt futae them since I was tanking and forgot lol, which also means no innin.
I am unsure if this is a resist or not, since if it was resisted this ment ALL I did got resisted (very possible). Easily if I had used 2 maxed ochus on said nm, I am fairly confident in 10k nukes instead of those 8k. Add a bit better gear and I can see 12k. Now if this is the resisted nukes, that will mean regular nukes will do 24k, which holds true to my apex testing for same scenario in gear/buffs roughly, not bad at all!!
I will try and grab my geo+sch+cor buddies and do some testing. If this does become viable we may have found a very niche use for nin endgame. The fact nin could lower ele resistance -30 more for an alliance, backup tank when ***hits the wall, and sc (I would hit enough acc for most 135 content on my nin with max innin cp and master) givs it a very unique spot.
Don't forget the lowered AoE damage allowing Ninja's to actually DPS content. Any dangerous moves will be mitigated with Migawari and shadows. 32% Subtle blow and Yurin (Not sure if this lands at all) to supress TP gain from their white damage.
If only they could auto-cap haste...
What exactly does the Magic Accuracy Skill on weapons stand for? Does it kick in for off hand weapons as well?
Bahadir said: »
What exactly does the Magic Accuracy Skill on weapons stand for? Does it kick in for off hand weapons as well?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/37600-Macc-No-longer-displayed?p=473450&viewfull=1#post473450
I couldn't understand that Egyptian sans script myself... So is the macc from just mainhand or both? I always assume both added together.
Magic accuracy skill - main hand only
Magic accuracy - both hands
Magic accuracy - both hands
I want to see more screenshots of awesome nin nukes!
[+]
Asura.Sechs said: »
So in a realistic environment, even if you're getting Languor and Focus, I don't think you're gonna be able to ignore macc completely.
Yeah this is kind of obvious to me, but seems to be overlooked. Even "real mages" loaded up with nuking gear options can't ignore Macc on endgame content. NIN is no different. Burst does get a Macc bonus so it's less important there, but still not something you can ignore.
And remember that resist rates are 1/2, 1/4, 1/8... When you're talking about spells that hit for 5 figure damage, even the smallest resist (1/2) is a massive loss. Unless you're totally sure you have capped magic hit rate, it's almost always better damage over time to err on the side of more Macc and less resists. Don't forget food either, pear crepes work for NIN too you know.
I'm still not entirely convinced NIN nuking is as amazing as people want to make it out to be. It's nice if you're on NIN anyway and tacking on MBs to a SC, or apex parties when you're just out to get CP on NIN... But on anything serious, real mages are still better so a NIN spamming nukes is just a gimpier replacement for a BLM. Maybe something to be said for reducing mob resist rate though, if you've got a player who has a well geared nuking NIN but no other typically useful nuke setup jobs (BLM, SCH, GEO, COR, tank, maybe SMN, etc.)
Asura.Sechs said: »
It kinda depends on the slot of course, but for a slot like Ammo Pamphredo Tathlum likely seems the best compromise
Some other slots where I've seen some people's sets overlooking fairly easily obtained Macc:
Ammo: Pemphredo Tathlum (INT+4/Macc+8/MAB+4), as Sechs mentioned
Neck: Sanctity Necklace (Macc+10/MAB+10)
Waist: Eschan Stone (Macc+7/MAB+7)
Back: Izdubar Mantle (Macc+5/MAB+10) - obviously only if you don't have a nuke focused Andartia's mantle, but it's prob fair to assume a lot of people don't
Herculean gear: worth considering that a decent amount of Macc paired with MAB is a more versatile piece than MAB-only. Less important for a burst-only set seeking Magic Burst damage augment though (since Burst gets an inherent acc bonus), but still a consideration.
[+]
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Yeah this is kind of obvious to me, but seems to be overlooked. Even "real mages" loaded up with nuking gear options can't ignore Macc on endgame content.
So they probably have to accept less compromises or need to focus less on it than a NIN does, I guess.
[+]
Asura.Sechs said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Yeah this is kind of obvious to me, but seems to be overlooked. Even "real mages" loaded up with nuking gear options can't ignore Macc on endgame content.
So they probably have to accept less compromises or need to focus less on it than a NIN does, I guess.
Oh yeah, totally agreed. But even on my alt BLM with excellent gear and semi-decent JPs (~500ish, with 20/20 Macc)... I need to remember to gear for MAcc on hard stuff to avoid resists. So that's definitely gonna be the case for NIN, who like you said doesn't get so much Macc just stuck on nuking gear that you'd be using by default anyway.
Another thought... if you're really set on doing a nuke setup with NIN and not getting a SCH putting storms on you, it might be reasonable to /SCH for Storm I on yourself. You lose some /RDM traits (MAB II for MAB+24, and FC II for FC+15%), but you should be able to get plenty of FC anyway and weather should more than outweigh MAB+24 from trait.
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.