The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

That's because you need to change mainhand to Heishi.

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If you're doing ten it should be from relatively high tp or with Heishi. Ten already has high ftp, and is coupled with low and mixed stat mods, so it's not going to benefit much from a lot of DEX and/or multi - hit (which WOULD be optimal for metsu/shun). For ten you want to prioritize wsd, then str for higher fstr.

Depending on your weapon the biggest bonus to doing metsu or shun would be for SC properties

For magical WSs, Nuking Cape (INT+30, Mac/Mdmg +20, Mab+10) vs WSD 10% cape, what's gonna win?
On Blade: Chi (2 hits) I guess the former would win, but on 1hit WS? Leaning on the latter.

Also Hachiya +3 head (WSD+10%) vs Aug Herc head (total -1 INT, -9% WSD, +35 Mab).
What's gonna win?

Last, Gyve legs (mab+40, INT+35) vs Hizamaru+2 (INT+24, WSD+7%)

Also relic +3 legs as an option with +42 INT/WSD +10. Has the ACC/MACC +39 as well.

A STR/WSD cape wrecks a nuking cape for hybrid WS.

Please give me more details on this!
Are you comparing it to stuff like Ifrit's Flaming Crush?
Is the basic damage of stuff like Blade: Chi calculated using the damage from a first, physical hit?
Do you mean that for stuff like Blade: Chi the gearing paradygms should take into account both magical and physical stats?

Or did you simply mean that STR is one of the two mods of these WSs?

They get listed as "Hybrid" on BG-Wiki but other than Blade: Chi I've always felt like Teki and To are simply magical WSs.


I'd be happy to see more sets for these WS other than the one posted on first page (btw, DEX/INT is listed there instead of STR/INT, if someone wants to fix this small error!)
Atm my set is very similar to that, I'm using:

Head: Hachiya +3
Body: Samnuha Coat
Hands: Leyline Gloves
Legs: Gyve Trousers
Feet: Hachiya +3
Ammo: Seething+1
Neck: Sanctity Necklace
Ear1: Friomisi
Ear2: Moonshade
Ring1: Acumen
Ring2: Dingir
Back: Nuke cape (INT+30, MAcc/MDMG +20, Mab+10)
Waist: Eschan Stone


As mentioned above, I'm pondering about other options I have available but I have no means to tell if they will be better than what I'm currently using.
Head: Herculean (INT+10, Mab+25, WSD+1%)
Legs: Hizamaru+2
Feet: Herculean (INT+10, Mab+25)
Back: STR+30, Acc/Att+20, WSD+10%

in general wsd10 is better than matt10 for that slot. Could make a magical ws specific cape I see a lot of ppl do this for a.edge on thf for example.

Because that set is only for magical WS. Like Blade: Yu and Aeolian Edge. Not a Hybrid WS. (Which until I know the exact math I wasn't too inclined to build a set for it on the front page.)

:)

Blade Yu (edit: and Blade: Ei- I consistently forget that WS even exists) is absolutely the only pure magic WS that katana has, as anyone that plays ninja and pays attention can easily confirm through simple anecdotal evidence.

Then I'm completely clueless. Was it discussed in this thread? Did anybody posted some examples of builds for Hybrid WSs?

:D

wut

lol that's just Bzt, though a surprising lack of dawn mulsums in that set.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/33470/the-sealed-dagger-a-ninja-guide/113/#3350389

Is where it was 'asked' and a small discussion on it follows. (Very small discussion).

Allright thanks Langly!
Gonna swap my set to the following then, suggestions very much welcome, other than the obvious INT/MAB/WSD Herc which I have no time/gil/will to farm, for now at least, let's see if I change my mind in the future.

ItemSet 360245
INT+10 Mab+25 on Herc Feet.
STR+30, Acc/Att+20, WSD+10 on cape.

Might be a bit low on physical accuracy, need to check carefully and compare it to my other sets.
Hizamaru+2 body could be an alternative to Samnuha? Way more STR and Acc/Att, same INT but no Mab/Macc.

Would Hachiya+3 be better on feet? +10 INT, more STR, more macc, more acc (set bonus), slightly less mab.

Why Hiza. Hizayoroi +2 over Mochizuki Hakama +3?

Because I do own Hizamaru Hizayoroi +2 but I don't own a Mochizuki Hakama +3, yet.

Initial discussion started here with Blade: To
Hybrid discussions

NIN's Hybrid WS are built functionally the same as Tachi: Jinpu, just slightly stronger potential because it has two attribute modifiers vs Jinpu's one


You can do str/int, MAB, wsd on Herc feet, which would generally beat hachiya+3 feet. Mine has wsd+5, mab+23, so it's pretty good for hybrids. Baetyl Pendant can replace Sanctity if you have it. The Leyline hands likely beat Herc hands unless you happen to have been really lucky with MAB+WSD, in which case, the latter wins (there's a DM campaign coming up soon).

Thanks for the link, gonna delve deep in it later.
Got any suggestions for the set I posted above?

Other than the obvious BiS augmented Herc in the feet slot, which I don't have atm.

Confused on what I should do for the Neck and Waist slots.
Fotia x2? Sanctity/Engraved?

Neck: Sanctity works, can replace with Baetyl Pendant.

Perhaps JSE neck+2 augments include some macc/mab, which would make it amazingly BIS, though you can get away with using Fotia since Saevel/Ruau confirmed they were doing well.

Waist: Engraved Belt looks BIS, same as above wit Fotia (might be very close). For weather, you could use Obi when getting stormII, since hybrid benefits from that.

Like Langy said, there is really not a whole lot of in-depth information on how exactly Hybrid WSs work, just a whole lot of eyeball testing and discussion. It's not something that a Spreadsheet may be able to determine since the way it is calculated is complicated. On the link I posted above, a guy claimed to have done extensive research on it and figured out how it works, but nearly no guides have BIS Hybrid WS sets for any of the jobs, mostly because its not readily understood that clearly.

You could play around with Fotia/MAB neck/obi etc and see what you get, but since there's a magical and physical component to Hybrid WSs, it's nearly impossible to determine which stat is more potent for which part of the WS, and where you are getting the most benefit from.

You're always safe with things like Fotia and Engraved (raw attributes) though, since we know that is a consistent value being applied. The MAB/Storm discussion really confuses me because clearly those stats/pieces would only apply to the magical portion of the WS, whereas raw stats from fotia/engraved would likely affect both components. This is the exact reason why I prefer using Herculean Hands/Feet with [WSD]+[STR/INT]+MAB over things like Hachiya Kyahan +3, since I know the WSD and attributes will always apply to every hit in the hybrid and it just seems like the "safer" option.

If it's a hybrid ws, fotia (obi storm etc)

Well, I did a lot of tests a while ago with numbers given in the post that confirm all my findings. I gave a pretty exact formula how Blade: To is calculated with short tests suggesting that Blade: Chi works the same.
I concede the point that I didnt test whether "all" hybrid WS work exactly the same (and I didnt check fTP values for Chi), but I explained how Blade: To works in detail.

Here is the post:
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/49614/blade-chi-damage-formula/2/#3171538

I respect it. Its good stuff. I didn't mean to sound abrasive and skeptical, though. I was more inferring to the part about the lack of "Hybrid WS" gear sets because the understanding of how hybrids work isn't totally universally accepted and documented. Not that your information was not accurate.

What's the deal with Teki, To and Chi btw?
Without any buff at all (not even trusts) and with the set I posted above, I went to Morimar Basalt Fields HP #1 and tested the 3 WSs for like 20 mins on the Matamatas.
Results were pretty much the same aside a couple of lower numbers which I assumed were caused by misses.

To was hitting for ~13000
Teki was hitting for ~6000
Chi was hitting for ~17500

All WSs were used at ~1000TP or slightly above, numbers were pretty consistant. Granted my sample is super small. I dunno like 20 WS each maybe.

I was imagining all three WSs to be closer to each other. As it stands now it seems Chi is the best of the 3, by far, with a pretty huge difference compared to Teki.

Anybody mind explaining to me what are the factors at play here?

Chi is 2(3) hits, teki and to are single(2) hit (offhands)

likely ice weather (to)

*Matamata take reduced water damage (-25%), so Teki will obviously perform poorly on them.

*Blade: Chi has an extra physical hit

Thanks for the explanation.
Anyway, considering how my WS set is nice but not BiS and considering I was lacking any type of buff, I can indeed confirm these 3 WSs are pretty powerful. Surprised by those numbers with exactely zero buffs :o

Not exactly unknown, hybrid ws became pretty damn powerful. When Jinpu was all the rage people were doing the nin ws too, but all the interest in them pretty much evaporated.\

Hotshot is still superbroken too (the most broken*)

Sechs you need to understand how Hybrid WS's work, Wiki is very wrong and something like 90% of the population doesn't understand them.

Hybrid WS's are two separate WS's that are added together to form the final damage. The first WS's total damage is used as the base DMG of the second.

Blade: Chi
First WS is physical with 2+1 hits, meaning both hits on the main hand with a bonus hit from the off hand and any extra hits from Multi-Attack. All hits are at a 1.0 fTP, gorgets add to the first hit only, WSD is applied on the first hit and WSC is treated like normal.

Second WS is magic and use's the total damage of the first WS as it's base damage, the fTP multiplier from TP is used here and seems to be around (0.5/1.5/2.5), this makes TP Bonus ridiculously good. Magic DMG is added after the fTP then you multiply by mDiff, weather bonus and so forth like all the other magic WS.

Both are added together and WSD is applied to the entire thing. Yes this means WSD gets applied twice, once to the first hit of the physical component and again to the entire thing.

Using this model I've been able to accurately predict all three hybrids for NIN on level 0 and apex monsters. You can actually get you first hits damage by just WSing level 0 mobs because the first hit is going to kill them resulting in 0 magic damage being done. Get with me in game if you want me to walk you thought all this, it's not well known and lots of bad info going around about it cause reasons.