"The Republican War Against Women" - The Book

I don't want to pay for that either, at least not on a national level. It's wrong to make someone in Massachusetts work hard to pay for the abortion/education/healthcare/welfare of someone out in rural Kansas. I should be on the hook for me and my kids, not yours.

To be honest, I also don't think we really should pay for other people's contraceptives, either. But... yeah, enough people are irresponsible enough that we have to. To me it's bad, but at least it's not as bad as the alternative.

It would be awesome if people could handle the responsibility themselves, or had the means to handle the responsibility. Making the next generation is about the most basic and important function of any species, and when you look at all of the crap that we do, don't do, mess with, and don't mess with enough, it's a wonder that we're advancing at all.

Well, I don't like the idea of it either, but Orthotricyclin and Ortho-Evra are a cheaper alternative. I think we're in the same boat here.

Agreed. Honestly, I wish more parents gave their daughters the option of using contraceptives during their teens. My mother was a RN in gynecology and obstetrics, so naturally, she was well aware of how many teen-aged mothers sifted in and out of L&D on a daily basis. She wasn't taking that chance with me.

Seriously? You're upset you have to pay pennies for hundreds of thousands of people's education?

I think people who feel as strongly as he does should be given the opportunity to opt out. They can all go live in some place where they don't have to pay for government services, but they don't get to receive any either.

PP doesn't use taxpayer money to pay for abortions, that's right wing ***.

as for the "your money" joke, unless you're in the top 1% the amount of your money that's used in the federal budget is a joke, be more worried about what the government uses the military for, or how much they pay politicians, it's a much more worthwhile thing to *** about. As for your morals, they are irrelevant, the rights of the society outweigh the rights of the individual, that's the basis for a society, if you don't like it don't live in it.


Then you don't know what he was talking about or what Fascism is, 1/2. Things have changed, principles and people haven't. The public are the ones that demanded them do something and allowed them to produce the new procedures, they are just as guilty.

Yes I've answered it before in other threads, go dig through them.

Why does it always come down to a black and white outcome of free contraception -or- welfare support for the outcome for life? Clearly there aren't ANY other possibilities. If people are irresponsible they need to own and live with the outcomes. If we stop paying for abortions and stop handing out welfare checks for life to the mothers who keep popping out fatherless kids, maybe they'll pay for their own abortions or better yet, buy their own birth control.


Riiiiight cause when your parents give you some money and say "this is for textbooks, not for beer" it doesn't enable you to use the other money you had in your pocket for beer instead of textbooks. That's pretty naive.

You clearly have no idea how budgets for public agencies work.

Nausi you sure live in a fantasy world...

How's that trickle down economy working for you?

After the baby is born and the parent(s) cannot properly care for it, I assume you'll be willing to take it off their hands considering how adamant you were about its push to term when it was simply a collection of cells?

Also you must have screwed up your wording because you basically said:

"When the government gives Planned Parenthood money and restricts it from being spent on abortions, they can spend the money they already have from non-government (read: private) sources for abortions."

Why do you care if Planned Parenthood spends their private money on abortions? It didn't come from you.

Oh, yes! Especially victims of rape or incest! They totally had it coming to them. Those teen-aged girls are completely mentally capable of handling children.

/Scragg's handy-dandy sarcasm font


What?!? I think I may not have enough energy for this thread.

PP gets audited... They have to prove that no federally funded money is being used to fund abortions...

@ Jet

I don't think you know what either is lol...

why post to answer a question by telling me to go find another post?

There was actually quite a different form of terrorism back then as opposed to now. the reasoning and method behind it have change too. People have also changed a great deal lol... There may be some core triats that remain the same if that's what you're talking about but society and the people in it are a great deal different than back then. One big one that comes to mind is that we no longer condone or allow slavery anymore... So many thigns are different...

This is kinda where I'm stuck. Seeing how other people act, I feel like both my parents and my schools did a pretty excellent job as far as sex ed goes (at least on the things I needed to know.) It's really hard for me to even wrap my brain around some of the risks people take with this, cause it's so easy to not mess up for the most part.

And, for me, it's not really about whether a fraction of a cent goes towards things I think people should take care of on their own, or many many dollars. I think there should always be a level of public support, but I think that it's gone a little too far, and that it's a little too broken. And, it's a totally different scenario when a person is in a bad situation because of extraordinary circumstances than when they're there as a result of bad decision making.

The idea (disregarding whether or not it happens this way) of government paying for an abortion because it was found that the fetus has a rare and devastating birth defect that also may end up harming the mother during childbirth is different from paying for an abortion for a girl who's address is the dorm, but who spends every night in some guys room at a frat house and she can't afford an abortion because being a part time hostess at TGI Friday's doesn't pay all that much.

But how can we decide things like that? The country can't even decide on whether abortion is ok or not, and we've been arguing about it for decades. Even if we did decide, I am certain that we couldn't handle that kind of individual decision making. (I don't even know if it's actually even fair to draw a line between those two examples.) THEN we've got to apply the same thinking to things like unemployment, healthcare, education.

It's such a huge and complicated problem! And it's a little scary when the very best I think I can actually do is raise my own kids as well as I can and hope for the best.

Personally I am against abortion and see it more as a necassary evil in our society. I would never vote to make it illegal though as I think it would do a great deal more harm to people if it was...

well that's your shortcoming.

Because it's already been answered...

/sigh, no terrorism hasn't changed at all, you don't understand history at all if you think that.

classic Jet lol..

I think what Nausi means is something like this, using a pretty simple example.

Let's say that PP does just two things: abortions and sex ed. And, they get their money from two sources: People who pay for their services and taxes.

If they get $100million from paying customers, and $0 tax dollars, they might spend $50mil on abortions and $50mil on sex ed.

If they get $100mil from customers, and $100mil from taxes, they might spend $100mil on abortions and $100mil on sex ed.

In the second case, the tax money allows more abortions to be performed, while at the same time not using tax money for them. I think that if someone is opposed to abortion, they can see this as kind of enabling it. So they (might) feel like they have to be against funding them regardless of whether "actual" tax money is used for abortions.

Terminus, a sincere "Bravo!"

Flavin, same. I, personally, don't think I could go through with it, even in the frivolous late-teens and early-twenties, but I would rather people have the option. It's acceptable to me in some circumstances, but it's really none of my business.

Not to mention, people will always find ways if they're desperate enough.

I understand what you're saying Terminus but Nausi said that taxpayer money is going to fund abortions directly (even though PP says it doesn't) so I don't know how your example would work with his comments.

@ Z I just think if we make it illegal you'll see more teens and such in allies with coat hangers or just abandoment... No one really brings any different solutions to the table... just mostly "Ok this is how I feel it should be"

People need to move on and realize that their feelings don't mean ***.

Literally mean nothing.

How you feel about abortion is completely irrelevant.

Take those feelings, pack them away, throw them off a cliff, and go be angry about a big government or something.

Oh I missed the directly part. :\

Ummm...Didn't we just say we're doing that? Who was that directed towards?

I just find it hilarious that men debate a woman's health issue. men should have absolutely no say in women's healthcare issues.

to realize that is the first step in the right direction, me thinks.

Who do you guys feel is the main antagonist in Pro choice vs Pro life?

I.e. Big government, men, or religion.

to be fair it's a society issue, but not a moral, or religious one.

and they solved that issue years ago but some people are still fighting that decision.

yar my de facto reponse is usually "roe v wade" should've ended this BS in the 70's, but lately it seems when I hear the issue debated, or referenced it's always some dude. which got my line of thought rolling more twords my previous post. meh.

I don't see what education the public needs at this point when most people are pretty guarded when going aboard a flight or riding any form of public transportation that could be the target of a terrorist attack. You want people to refrain from jumping to impulse reactions a la post-9/11 'lets kick ***' in Iraq? Fine, I'd agree on that front however...

The point still stands that terrorist attacks are being plotted against the US. Distill the the emotional responses and there is a legitimate threat. You can either choose to do something about it or just simply accept people will die, let the dice fall where they are and shuffle TSA dollars elsewhere.

It isn't unreasonable to expect a coffee filter effect from the TSA. You might not catch everything but it is certainly an improvement over doing nothing.

Also how is a full-body scan not equivalent to a metal detector? In both cases you're put through a minor inconvenience for the sake of public safety yet no one complains about this when visiting a government building. Full body patdowns aren't even that common.

I disagree when it comes to abortion. I think a man should have a say in each individual case when it's their child.