BST: Ruinator
BST: Ruinator
This was my former build for Ruinator for mobs in the animal ecosystem. Against beastmen mobs I switched Ferine Gausape +2 with Toci's Harness and Killer Bow with Flame Sachet.
I just picked up Phorcys Korazin and whereas I'm certain that this body trumps Toci's Harness; I imagine that the Ferine Gausape +2 still wins when faced against regular animals who's weaknesses can be exploited via the use of killer effects?
Phorcys Korazin: 70 Def, 16 Str, Atk +5%, MAB + 7, WS DMG +7%
Toci's Harness: 60 Def, 13 Str, 13 Dex, Acc +10, Atk +10, DA +3%
Ferine Gausape +2: 67 Def, Acc +18, Atk +18, Evs +18, Haste +2%, Aug: Killer Effects
Wasn't the gain from Killer Effects 'only' 4-5%?
My guess is that Korazin is better overall now, unless acc is low.
My guess is that Korazin is better overall now, unless acc is low.
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »
Wasn't the gain from Killer Effects 'only' 4-5%?
My guess is that Korazin is better overall now, unless acc is low.
My guess is that Korazin is better overall now, unless acc is low.
Not exactly. The gain from Killer Effects is half of the total Killer Effects value.
So if you only have the base Killer Effects that you obtain from Job Traits (value of 10), you're gain will be 5%
If you have 5/5 KE Merits (value of 5), the gain would be 7.5%, Killer Bow with a value of 2 would raise it to 8.5%, etc.
What I'm uncertain of, since I use Killer Instinct often... (which gives 15% increase to dmg, dmg reduction, and intimidation rate) ...is if you'd still get the full bonus from using Killer Instinct with Phorcys Body or if you would have to stick to Ferine Gausape +2 for the best overall damage.
Phorcys should win in all other areas/situations, I'm just not sure about situations where Killer Instinct is involved and your Killer Effect value is 30+ (aka damage dealt +15% or more)
Killer Instinct will only boost your killer effect to the mob if your pet has a killer effect towards the mob you're fighting right?
For example using falcor and killing crabs you would get a boost, but if you switched to dhalmel you would not get that boost.
Or am I wrong?
For example using falcor and killing crabs you would get a boost, but if you switched to dhalmel you would not get that boost.
Or am I wrong?
I see. I didn't account for Merits.
16 STR (and a 100% mod) vs 0.5-1,5% dmg might still be a close call.
Eyeballing only anyway.
I guess, some Math geeks have to settle it then.
@Mael Yea, it specifically says "your pet's KE", so if it doesn't have one against your current target, you (and pt members) won't receive any boost.
16 STR (and a 100% mod) vs 0.5-1,5% dmg might still be a close call.
Eyeballing only anyway.
I guess, some Math geeks have to settle it then.
@Mael Yea, it specifically says "your pet's KE", so if it doesn't have one against your current target, you (and pt members) won't receive any boost.
Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Killer Instinct will only boost your killer effect to the mob if your pet has a killer effect towards the mob you're fighting right?
For example using falcor and killing crabs you would get a boost, but if you switched to dhalmel you would not get that boost.
Or am I wrong?
For example using falcor and killing crabs you would get a boost, but if you switched to dhalmel you would not get that boost.
Or am I wrong?
You are correct. Killer instinct is only a boost if the relationship between your pet and your prey is to your advantage.
Also fYI:
Base trait: 10
Killer Effect Merits: 5
Killer Instinct: 15 (5/5 merits)
HQ cookie/cracker: 12
Monster helm+2: 5
Tatami shield: 2
Killer shortbow: 2
Ferine Gausape +2
That's Capped Killer Effects for anything bst can use Killer instinct on. That's a 25% boost in damage from gausape, and a 50% intimidation rate for normal mobs.
Its also a separate step 15% boost in damage for a net gain of about +43% damage.
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Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Killer Instinct will only boost your killer effect to the mob if your pet has a killer effect towards the mob you're fighting right?
For example using falcor and killing crabs you would get a boost, but if you switched to dhalmel you would not get that boost.
Or am I wrong?
For example using falcor and killing crabs you would get a boost, but if you switched to dhalmel you would not get that boost.
Or am I wrong?
Yeah, sorry for not specifying. I was messing around the other day using the Eft jug pet and killing crawlers with Coin Cookie's. I had a 44% intimidation rate and it was seriously funny watching the mob just... do nothing.
Xilk said: »
Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Killer Instinct will only boost your killer effect to the mob if your pet has a killer effect towards the mob you're fighting right?
For example using falcor and killing crabs you would get a boost, but if you switched to dhalmel you would not get that boost.
Or am I wrong?
For example using falcor and killing crabs you would get a boost, but if you switched to dhalmel you would not get that boost.
Or am I wrong?
You are correct. Killer instinct is only a boost if the relationship between your pet and your prey is to your advantage.
Also fYI:
Base trait: 10
Killer Effect Merits: 5
Killer Instinct: 15 (5/5 merits)
HQ cookie/cracker: 12
Monster helm+2: 5
Tatami shield: 2
Killer shortbow: 2
Ferine Gausape +2
That's Capped Killer Effects for anything bst can use Killer instinct on. That's a 25% boost in damage from gausape, and a 50% intimidation rate for normal mobs.
Its also a separate step 15% boost in damage for a net gain of about +43% damage.
You have any idea what the answer would be to my previous question? What you said suggests Ferine Gausape +2 may come out on top but I'm not certain that you were responding to me directly.
In theory that is a nice boost in dmg there but I don't think that, realistically, you'd use most of the stuff, apart from merits.
Dual Wield should prolly be better than using a shield if you are using a pet.
You'd, most likely, use DD food like Buns.
More likely than not, you will just use a pet that is not getting the buff from KI, simply for TH, MDB or w/e.
And lastly, using bow I find bad for TPing as you will be switching the ammo slot every now and then, if you are actually meleeing.
Which leaves base traits, AF2 +2 Head and merits for you.
Then again, I'm not the most experienced BST out there, this is just how I would do it.
Edit: S/he was saying that 25% dmg boost, along with the acc/intimidation/etc. of all the stuff together will beat Korazin easily, I assume.
Dual Wield should prolly be better than using a shield if you are using a pet.
You'd, most likely, use DD food like Buns.
More likely than not, you will just use a pet that is not getting the buff from KI, simply for TH, MDB or w/e.
And lastly, using bow I find bad for TPing as you will be switching the ammo slot every now and then, if you are actually meleeing.
Which leaves base traits, AF2 +2 Head and merits for you.
Then again, I'm not the most experienced BST out there, this is just how I would do it.
Edit: S/he was saying that 25% dmg boost, along with the acc/intimidation/etc. of all the stuff together will beat Korazin easily, I assume.
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »
In theory that is a nice boost in dmg there but I don't think that, realistically, you'd use most of the stuff, apart from merits.
Dual Wield should prolly be better than using a shield if you are using a pet.
You'd, most likely, use DD food like Buns.
More likely than not, you will just use a pet that is not getting the buff from KI, simply for TH, MDB or w/e.
And lastly, using bow I find bad for TPing as you will be switching the ammo slot every now and then, if you are actually meleeing.
Which leaves base traits, AF2 +2 Head and merits for you.
Then again, I'm not the most experienced BST out there, this is just how I would do it.
Edit: S/he was saying that 25% dmg boost, along with the acc/intimidation/etc. of all the stuff together will beat Korazin easily, I assume.
Dual Wield should prolly be better than using a shield if you are using a pet.
You'd, most likely, use DD food like Buns.
More likely than not, you will just use a pet that is not getting the buff from KI, simply for TH, MDB or w/e.
And lastly, using bow I find bad for TPing as you will be switching the ammo slot every now and then, if you are actually meleeing.
Which leaves base traits, AF2 +2 Head and merits for you.
Then again, I'm not the most experienced BST out there, this is just how I would do it.
Edit: S/he was saying that 25% dmg boost, along with the acc/intimidation/etc. of all the stuff together will beat Korazin easily, I assume.
It really depends on what you're doing as to whether or not that set would be worth using. Obviously if you're in a situation where your target mob is always changing then it wouldn't be as efficient; however, if you're spamming the same type(s) of monster(s) then that set would/should easily come out on top.
Example: For any beastmaster who is doing the double attack axe where you have to kill 500 vermin.... that set will win. When I mentioned killing crawlers with a lizard pet that was for my trial (I'm on trial 293 or w/e).
Shield: I wasn't using shield because I was /dnc and would want a strong main hand axe for WS's while doing the trial.
Food: +12 Vermin Killer = +12 intimidation, +6% Damage dealt, -6% Damage taken. For this situation I can't think of any food that would come close.
Pet: All vermin mobs so lizards pets ftw
Bow: Bow isn't very difficult to utilize. If you need to use reward, use it after WS'ing, You lose 12 tp. Or if the mobs you are fighting are extremely weak (easy prey, etc) you can just use "Stay" every 10 minutes to let your pet regen naturally.
With such a high intimidation rate and using dancer sub job I was tanking most of the mobs anyways and just letting my pet DD beside me.
Basically, it's not an unrealistic set as long as you're wise enough to plan how to utilize it. ^^
Yea, everything is situational anyway.
I guess I was more refering to situations like VW, Legion, Neo Nyzul if you happen to use your BST there.
Or if you farm Dynamis or Empyrean items.
For those things I'd play how I said, utilize TH, DW and DD-Food, along with STR/ATT (for fSTR and pDIF mainly) to keep your dmg output up there.
The lower your base WS-dmg is, the less you will get out of your 25% dmg boost anyway.
For weak stuff, I don't think that you even need most of the dmg increase, except for maybe 75 endgame content, where it could come in handy here and there.
Just my opinion anyway.
I don't think that the killer set is useless, at all. I just think that it might not be worth the effort for the majority of things you do.
Unless, of course, you only play around with BST all the time to have just fun and test out things.
That's ok too.
I guess I was more refering to situations like VW, Legion, Neo Nyzul if you happen to use your BST there.
Or if you farm Dynamis or Empyrean items.
For those things I'd play how I said, utilize TH, DW and DD-Food, along with STR/ATT (for fSTR and pDIF mainly) to keep your dmg output up there.
The lower your base WS-dmg is, the less you will get out of your 25% dmg boost anyway.
For weak stuff, I don't think that you even need most of the dmg increase, except for maybe 75 endgame content, where it could come in handy here and there.
Just my opinion anyway.
I don't think that the killer set is useless, at all. I just think that it might not be worth the effort for the majority of things you do.
Unless, of course, you only play around with BST all the time to have just fun and test out things.
That's ok too.
I agree, killer set is completely situational as has been said.
Also, I often won't necessarily be using bow and shield either, but keep in mind, you don't have to. omitting bow and shield, you still can get 47% to the killer effects.
thats a 23% boost in damage dealt and the killer instinct damage boost as well.
I basically switch to this set when I use killer instinct. If I don't want to use shield or bow, I leave them in my sack and don't switch to them. Shucks, I'm putting the food use in the same macro, because it only has a 5 min duration and stacks to 99. very handy for those 'situational times'
Also, I often won't necessarily be using bow and shield either, but keep in mind, you don't have to. omitting bow and shield, you still can get 47% to the killer effects.
thats a 23% boost in damage dealt and the killer instinct damage boost as well.
I basically switch to this set when I use killer instinct. If I don't want to use shield or bow, I leave them in my sack and don't switch to them. Shucks, I'm putting the food use in the same macro, because it only has a 5 min duration and stacks to 99. very handy for those 'situational times'
With regards to Dynamis, Phorcys Korazin will definitely win since Nightmare mobs are not classified by standard monster families.
The calculated difference between the two bodies is otherwise very marginal. Sorry if it was mentioned, but are those STR/Atk Astolfo axes, Zeosilot? Ferine Gausape +2 is very slightly ahead of Phorcys Korazin vs Fodder mobs using your gearset.
And when you take into consideration the 1/3rd Killer Effects penalty versus NMs, Phorcys Korazin will win vs. Qilin and similar upper tier foes - even when Killer Instinct is applicable.
I hope this info helps. Basically, the Korazin is beastly. There are a couple of situations where you can slightly win with Gausape +2, but they mostly revolve around Too Weak foes or certain Brew situations. I haven't looked into Primal Rend/Cloudsplitter thoroughly, but Gausape should win there too, when applicable.
Does anyone here know where the Atk+5% is factored in for figuring out your total attack? Like, is it calculated before food bonuses/songs/etc.? Thanks for any insight. My gear isn't the best, but I'm hovering around ~670 attack in my WS gear, so I'm only gaining about 33 attack from the Korazin in non-Abyssea/VW situations, right?
The calculated difference between the two bodies is otherwise very marginal. Sorry if it was mentioned, but are those STR/Atk Astolfo axes, Zeosilot? Ferine Gausape +2 is very slightly ahead of Phorcys Korazin vs Fodder mobs using your gearset.
And when you take into consideration the 1/3rd Killer Effects penalty versus NMs, Phorcys Korazin will win vs. Qilin and similar upper tier foes - even when Killer Instinct is applicable.
I hope this info helps. Basically, the Korazin is beastly. There are a couple of situations where you can slightly win with Gausape +2, but they mostly revolve around Too Weak foes or certain Brew situations. I haven't looked into Primal Rend/Cloudsplitter thoroughly, but Gausape should win there too, when applicable.
Does anyone here know where the Atk+5% is factored in for figuring out your total attack? Like, is it calculated before food bonuses/songs/etc.? Thanks for any insight. My gear isn't the best, but I'm hovering around ~670 attack in my WS gear, so I'm only gaining about 33 attack from the Korazin in non-Abyssea/VW situations, right?
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Actually only one is a strength based axe, the other is vit/pet pdt. I'm working on a double attack axe which will replace the pdt one for DD situations.
Also, appreciate the link, i suspected the same thing based on using dipper yuly and killer instinct inside of dyna valk vs funguar and treants and noticed no improvement whatsoever so i was going to test with primal rend when i got home. Guess now I don't have to.
Looks like i'll just stick to the korazin 24/7 for simplities sake. Was pretty much what I had decided when I got it.
I'll check later to see at what point korazin's atk is factored in.
Also, appreciate the link, i suspected the same thing based on using dipper yuly and killer instinct inside of dyna valk vs funguar and treants and noticed no improvement whatsoever so i was going to test with primal rend when i got home. Guess now I don't have to.
Looks like i'll just stick to the korazin 24/7 for simplities sake. Was pretty much what I had decided when I got it.
I'll check later to see at what point korazin's atk is factored in.
Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Does it still work the other way though? I remember falcor getting pretty much murdered by nightmare leeches in Dyna-Tav when I was doing xp trials for boots and gloves. He was taking a lot more damage and dealing a lot less.
inb4 loleyeballing.
Those leeches are friggin' evil, man. ; ;
And most jug pets will be hard-pressed to withstand Decent Challenge Dynamis mobs for long. When you say he was taking more damage and dealing less damage, do you mean compared to fighting Decent Challenge Bomb Clusters in the same zone? Or just an impression that he was getting beaten down harder by his Ecosystem predator?
In any case, I think the real qualifier for any proof that the Amorph > Bird ecosystem rule was in effect for you would be if Falcorr got intimidated by the Nightmare Leech.
But as of right now there's quite a bit of evidence to support Nightmare mobs not having any Ecosystem affiliation. It's possible that Dyna-Tav mobs could be different (I've only tested Treants in Valk and Bunnies in Buburimu. And the testimonials for 0% intimidation rate have largely been from Valk, iirc) - actually, I remember the Nightmare Leeches used to drop water crystals, though I don't recall any other Dynamis mobs doing that. Maybe they play by different rules? Or did they patch that? I haven't been to Dyna-Tav in ages.
Edit: If someone could check, that'd be great - if not, I can re-enter Dynamis tomorrow and figure out what the deal is with the Leeches.
And most jug pets will be hard-pressed to withstand Decent Challenge Dynamis mobs for long. When you say he was taking more damage and dealing less damage, do you mean compared to fighting Decent Challenge Bomb Clusters in the same zone? Or just an impression that he was getting beaten down harder by his Ecosystem predator?
In any case, I think the real qualifier for any proof that the Amorph > Bird ecosystem rule was in effect for you would be if Falcorr got intimidated by the Nightmare Leech.
But as of right now there's quite a bit of evidence to support Nightmare mobs not having any Ecosystem affiliation. It's possible that Dyna-Tav mobs could be different (I've only tested Treants in Valk and Bunnies in Buburimu. And the testimonials for 0% intimidation rate have largely been from Valk, iirc) - actually, I remember the Nightmare Leeches used to drop water crystals, though I don't recall any other Dynamis mobs doing that. Maybe they play by different rules? Or did they patch that? I haven't been to Dyna-Tav in ages.
Edit: If someone could check, that'd be great - if not, I can re-enter Dynamis tomorrow and figure out what the deal is with the Leeches.
Nothing drops crystals in Tav and you may be right it was just a higher level/tougher mob. I don't remember any intimidation, but may had just been frantically fighting to survive lol. However clusters did seem easier even if I linked them. But then again leeches tend to be a more beefy mob than most monsters.
Before i lay down a wad on it is the pyro ring worth it for only 2STR over rajas and Rajas has 5DEX attatched to it? Currently been ws'ing in Epona's/Rajas. Here's the set, NQ Mekira head til i get up about another 4M to afford +1.
Pyro is better when you don't need the minuscule accuracy that rajas offers, due to the increase of STR and ATT.
For me it comes down to whether or not it's worth the -1 inventory and the gil.
Otherwise your set looks good, even though, you could use STR-Axe(s) to further increase your dmg even more and have more gain (in terms of DDing) for the money invested.
For me it comes down to whether or not it's worth the -1 inventory and the gil.
Otherwise your set looks good, even though, you could use STR-Axe(s) to further increase your dmg even more and have more gain (in terms of DDing) for the money invested.
I'm holding off til i collect more geodes since i spent my reserves up on STR katana to O/H on my NIN. Starting Guttler soon as I get a decent cash reserve as well.
Can just do some trials for the Axe though, since it offers 8 STR/18 Att already before the geodes are needed.
Still a nice upgrade, even more than +1'ing the head.
Still a nice upgrade, even more than +1'ing the head.
Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Does anyone here know where the Atk+5% is factored in for figuring out your total attack? Like, is it calculated before food bonuses/songs/etc.? Thanks for any insight. My gear isn't the best, but I'm hovering around ~670 attack in my WS gear, so I'm only gaining about 33 attack from the Korazin in non-Abyssea/VW situations, right?
Looks like it's factored before food/bonuses/songs.
I got +40 atk with nothing on at all.
I got +42 with food, berserk, warcry.
Went from 666 attack to 960 so I attribute the variance of 2 attack to decimals/rounding.
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first off i mainly just use my bst for dyna. i'm just about to finish my dbl att 11 axe & i'm now looking at the off hand axe. originally i thought of doing the str/att axe, but will the oat axe give me better return? i don't know anyone who has the oat, so not sure if the proc rate will outperform the str/att id be giving up.
One of the best sets is
Phorcys Korazin is an improvement. DA/TA usually factor in more over time, but Ruinator is heavily based on STR and attack, making the gain on sollerets and korazin worth the DA loss.
If your accuracy is low use twilight. I can't say at which point STR on the ear beats attack, but I'd aim for a Vulcan's for the earring slot. Some new uncursed HQs might beat some slots of the above set, otherwise, it's solid.
In terms of axes: higher ruinator numbers - STR or DA axes main/off/both.
For higher overall DPS - def down / OA2. Fairly certain this combination beats any combination of STR / DA
Phorcys Korazin is an improvement. DA/TA usually factor in more over time, but Ruinator is heavily based on STR and attack, making the gain on sollerets and korazin worth the DA loss.
If your accuracy is low use twilight. I can't say at which point STR on the ear beats attack, but I'd aim for a Vulcan's for the earring slot. Some new uncursed HQs might beat some slots of the above set, otherwise, it's solid.
In terms of axes: higher ruinator numbers - STR or DA axes main/off/both.
For higher overall DPS - def down / OA2. Fairly certain this combination beats any combination of STR / DA
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erroneous42 said: »
first off i mainly just use my bst for dyna. i'm just about to finish my dbl att 11 axe & i'm now looking at the off hand axe. originally i thought of doing the str/att axe, but will the oat axe give me better return? i don't know anyone who has the oat, so not sure if the proc rate will outperform the str/att id be giving up.
If you're looking for the highest Ruinator numbers a dbl atk astolfo and str astolfo will net you the highest numbers consistently. For dynamis farming I find having having TP on hand more beneficial for currency yield than having the highest Ruinator numbers.
I'd normally recommend a str astolfo and a tp builder like OA2-4, OA2 or KC but since you've already made a DA axe a second DA axe offhand would work best for you. You can get close to 40% DA in gear without too much effort. The OA2 has a 45% proc rate but only affects your offhand. It also doesn't affect ruinator numbers either.
OA2-4 is pretty weak. Delay is high and the proc breakdown is disproportional; not worth building.
I don't believe KC is good to offhand. More hits = more TP spam = more hate on master = more healing. Most downtime comes from trying to proc.
I don't believe KC is good to offhand. More hits = more TP spam = more hate on master = more healing. Most downtime comes from trying to proc.
I'd agree the points on the OA2-4 but KC is really the best offhand for dynamis farming. Hate is a non factor with snarl. For farming I usually do valkurm and the only AOE TP moves would be leafstorm which is weak in itself. For EP mobs it probably doesn't matter too much what your weapon choice is as long as you have 100tp after proc'ing. If you're doing DC mobs getting off as many ruinators as possible is the most efficient way to get currency.
So are killer effects worth the merits anymore?!
Odin.Phunkism said: »
I'd agree the points on the OA2-4 but KC is really the best offhand for dynamis farming..
Phoenix.Suji said: »
Odin.Phunkism said: »
I'd agree the points on the OA2-4 but KC is really the best offhand for dynamis farming..
The absurd part is when their TP gear is almost full Perle.
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