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Presidential Candidates .. Who do you like?
By Jetackuu 2012-06-20 08:28:51
I'll agree with you there Sai, but I don't see how replacing the plants we already have with better, safer and more efficient plants is a bad idea.
There's only so many refurbs one can do.
I'd personally wish we'd persue a replacement to our "battery" technology, there's plenty of energy, but with our current system we can't use renewable energy for main sources only as backup/supplemental sources. Or actually efficiently produce a hydrogen fusion reaction (makes me giddy thinking about it), but why would the people who have the means (current power etc) make an energy source they can't immensely profit from?
By Jetackuu 2012-06-20 08:30:24
Title of that movie was really the only good part :(
Rest of the movie was ruined for me by Al Gore whining about things that had nothing to do with anthropogenic climate change.
Had to watch that movie w/the the wife for one of her college classes... what a waste of time.
It was a tiny bit climate change talk & a *** ton of Gore pretending to be some lone wolf superhero out to save the world with his rolling suitcase.  ?
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-06-20 08:31:42
It sucks that so many people are caught up in arguing whether what humans are doing to the planet makes an extremely slight difference or no difference at all. I am sure that those kinds of details are important to researchers and climatologists and such, but, for the general population, shouldn't something like this...
Are trees nice? Yes. Ok, let's try not to cut so many down.
Is smoke the same as air? No. Ok, let's try to not make so much.
Should there be more than a dozen wild Example Animals? Yes. Ok, let's not screw up their habitat while shooting all of them for fun.
...be reason enough?
[+]
By Jetackuu 2012-06-20 08:38:49
I hold the probability of global climate change to be a potential danger, and while I think we should make steps to change our ways, we shouldn't pull a 180 and slow down progression to do so.
However that is a too reasonable approach and would get squashed by oil backed representatives, so no politician can really take that route if they want to stand a chance.
"Profit Profit Profit, consequences be damned"
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-06-20 10:01:54
It sucks that so many people are caught up in arguing whether what humans are doing to the planet makes an extremely slight difference or no difference at all. I am sure that those kinds of details are important to researchers and climatologists and such, but, for the general population, shouldn't something like this...
Are trees nice? Yes. Ok, let's try not to cut so many down.
Is smoke the same as air? No. Ok, let's try to not make so much.
Should there be more than a dozen wild Example Animals? Yes. Ok, let's not screw up their habitat while shooting all of them for fun.
...be reason enough?
Answering those questions assumes you recognize an issue in the first place, have no personal stake in modifying dirty industry and generally care about the environment. I mean if you're a miner you aren't going to exactly break bread with environmentalists trying to curb your industry from raping the land and the oil industries aren't keen on solar investment so we get mudslinging whenever alternative energy is brought up.
The first step to change is recognizing a problem but everyone isn't convinced that there is a problem and still further you have individuals who take the environment for granted or just aren't willing to take steps that may mean changes in daily behavior. Perhaps in their neighborhood the environment hasn't been damaged too much, ignorance clouds the true scope of the situation or the situation wont be recognized until the environmental damage hits home in a very personal way like a childhood fishing spot being wiped out due to industrial activity nearby or having gas in your drinking water when you turn on the faucet.
Funny, no one wants govt regs until the damage hits home and you feel completely helpless beside a company armed with a platoon of lawyers ready to banish you to paperwork oblivion.
[+]
Caitsith.Sai
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 702
By Caitsith.Sai 2012-06-20 11:38:28
I'll agree with you there Sai, but I don't see how replacing the plants we already have with better, safer and more efficient plants is a bad idea.
There's only so many refurbs one can do.
I'd personally wish we'd persue a replacement to our "battery" technology, there's plenty of energy, but with our current system we can't use renewable energy for main sources only as backup/supplemental sources. Or actually efficiently produce a hydrogen fusion reaction (makes me giddy thinking about it), but why would the people who have the means (current power etc) make an energy source they can't immensely profit from?
While its conspiracy laden, I agree.
Im not convinced that certain technologies dont already exist, and are being withheld due to current situations being so profitable.
Not to mention the staggering amount of infrastructure updating that would have to occur with a new energy source.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-06-20 12:02:02
I just can't imagine the experiences that lead to thinking like, "well, we're going to destroy <whatever,> but screw it, there's money to be made."
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-06-20 12:04:17
I just can't imagine the experiences that lead to thinking like, "well, we're going to destroy <whatever,> but screw it, there's money to be made." It's not that hard to see people coming to that conclusion... For one they don't see the immediate effects... Some people need to see it before they believe it... Yes I see the irony in some cases lol... Others just don't care... It won't effect them in their life time and making more money does...
[+]
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-06-20 12:10:02
Oh I believe you. I just would not be a good candidate (at all) for ever trying to change that kind of a person. It would be a very short career.
"Hey you know that kills people right?"
"Someday it might."
"Um......."
Then again... am I that person? I don't know the difference between "that guy" and me, who could, for example, ride my bike to work, but drives. Crap.
Caitsith.Sai
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 702
By Caitsith.Sai 2012-06-20 12:16:03
I just can't imagine the experiences that lead to thinking like, "well, we're going to destroy <whatever,> but screw it, there's money to be made."
Thats pretty simple really.
First a company is not a thinking thing that judges the morality of its actions, it exists for one purpose - make as much profit as possible as fast as possible.
Now you will then say, "well the people that run it should care". But then we delve into human psychology at that point. If you're getting wealthy off of something, are you going to give that up for far away detached reasons? Remember that you have come to live a certain lifestyle and more importantly so has your family.
Also don't forget that people in a shut off environment can easily get caught up in a mob mentality and just go along w/the everyone else w/o really thinking about what they are doing.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-06-20 12:25:25
I just can't imagine the experiences that lead to thinking like, "well, we're going to destroy <whatever,> but screw it, there's money to be made."
In many of the situations where this happens people devise all sorts of rationalizations for their actions or because they're apart of a group they arrive at the conclusion that because they're doing a job that it isn't "their fault".
You could look at bots in XI as a case study where many people didn't care who they screwed over because they were getting fat off the loot/money/benefits of using tools. The laundrylist on that front alone was lengthy/contentious and FFXI was just a game.
Scale it up to decisions of wealth and of course there are going to be people who don't give a ***about say... the Gulf of Mexico because they have enough money to simply vacation/live/prosper elsewhere.
Companies are like people in the sense that some will do the right thing and others will break every rule it takes to maintain growing profits. The question is where does society draw the line?
Do we allow a free-for-all in the name of profit?
Do we establish regulations that may choke business but benefit society?
Do we become neo-hippies in the name of saving the planet?
My answer is somewhere in the middle.
[+]
Caitsith.Sai
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 702
By Caitsith.Sai 2012-06-20 12:31:18
It is for the above reasons, that the decision to allow corporations to donate unlimited $$$ to political candidates is one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.
[+]
By Jetackuu 2012-06-20 13:56:44
I'll agree with you there Sai, but I don't see how replacing the plants we already have with better, safer and more efficient plants is a bad idea.
There's only so many refurbs one can do.
I'd personally wish we'd persue a replacement to our "battery" technology, there's plenty of energy, but with our current system we can't use renewable energy for main sources only as backup/supplemental sources. Or actually efficiently produce a hydrogen fusion reaction (makes me giddy thinking about it), but why would the people who have the means (current power etc) make an energy source they can't immensely profit from?
While its conspiracy laden, I agree.
Im not convinced that certain technologies dont already exist, and are being withheld due to current situations being so profitable.
Not to mention the staggering amount of infrastructure updating that would have to occur with a new energy source.
Hey infrastructure spending is the only proven method to pull out of a recession, go figure.
I am not convinced they don't either, and while I'm in the electronics field, I don't really study generating power that much, just using it. But I would like more efficient portable energy for many reasons.
Caitsith.Sai
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 702
By Caitsith.Sai 2012-06-20 14:09:48
I'll agree with you there Sai, but I don't see how replacing the plants we already have with better, safer and more efficient plants is a bad idea.
There's only so many refurbs one can do.
I'd personally wish we'd persue a replacement to our "battery" technology, there's plenty of energy, but with our current system we can't use renewable energy for main sources only as backup/supplemental sources. Or actually efficiently produce a hydrogen fusion reaction (makes me giddy thinking about it), but why would the people who have the means (current power etc) make an energy source they can't immensely profit from?
While its conspiracy laden, I agree.
Im not convinced that certain technologies dont already exist, and are being withheld due to current situations being so profitable.
Not to mention the staggering amount of infrastructure updating that would have to occur with a new energy source.
Hey infrastructure spending is the only proven method to pull out of a recession, go figure.
I am not convinced they don't either, and while I'm in the electronics field, I don't really study generating power that much, just using it. But I would like more efficient portable energy for many reasons.
The poor state of this countrie's infrastructure on all levels is an embarrassment.
Fusion is a tough one, its very difficult to create the heat and pressure needed to cause it to occur.
Solar and battery cell technology is clearly the way of the future. The sun of course is for all intents and purposes both infinite and free. Batteries would allow basically all residential zones to be off the power grid which has clear benefits.
Bahamut.Cuelebra
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2012-06-20 14:18:38
If humans die because one species dies, I'm going to be pretty disappointed. Also very small life forms that reproduce very fast and evolve very fast. The only reason we even have so much algie is because the sea life was eating it so fast that it evolved to produce much faster.
When? And are humans really that stupid to not be able to stop it?
More like I might as well throw my cup onto that heap of trash because it's so *** big and no one else is going to stop.
I don't think you understand the ramification of the death of a "foundation species." Diatoms/ which present a large percentage of surface area on water. Can easily be killed by climate changes nitrate, sulfate, co2 emissions. They contribute a large percentage of O2 production and reduce co2 in the atmosphere. That effects you, I, and most living things.
You really should dump the whole human-centric ideology. Its soooo 17th century Galileo!
By Jetackuu 2012-06-20 14:28:15
I'll agree with you there Sai, but I don't see how replacing the plants we already have with better, safer and more efficient plants is a bad idea.
There's only so many refurbs one can do.
I'd personally wish we'd persue a replacement to our "battery" technology, there's plenty of energy, but with our current system we can't use renewable energy for main sources only as backup/supplemental sources. Or actually efficiently produce a hydrogen fusion reaction (makes me giddy thinking about it), but why would the people who have the means (current power etc) make an energy source they can't immensely profit from?
While its conspiracy laden, I agree.
Im not convinced that certain technologies dont already exist, and are being withheld due to current situations being so profitable.
Not to mention the staggering amount of infrastructure updating that would have to occur with a new energy source.
Hey infrastructure spending is the only proven method to pull out of a recession, go figure.
I am not convinced they don't either, and while I'm in the electronics field, I don't really study generating power that much, just using it. But I would like more efficient portable energy for many reasons.
The poor state of this countrie's infrastructure on all levels is an embarrassment.
Fusion is a tough one, its very difficult to create the heat and pressure needed to cause it to occur.
Solar and battery cell technology is clearly the way of the future. The sun of course is for all intents and purposes both infinite and free. Batteries would allow basically all residential zones to be off the power grid which has clear benefits.
word.
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-06-20 14:30:13
Hey guys the only thing that effects the earths temperature is CO2!
Wait no, there are tons of factors that can go into the earths temperature.
I have poured tons of hours into researching this to get at what is really going on.
The only thing that I have found is that there is no conclusive evidence that any warming of the earth is from man made CO2.
We have been recording temperatures from only about 1850. Before that, we have to dig into the earth to get a look at what is going on.
So what was going on before 1850? A lot of variation in temperature, that's what. It goes up, it goes down. It laughs and it cries.
But when you get down to the nitty gritty of global warming and ask yourself, "Should I give a ***?" No. No you shouldn't. There are lots of more important things than worrying about something that you have no control of and you will never be effected by. But people think it's a big issue since it's highly politicized.
Here are the bullet points of why you shouldn't give a ***:
1. The temperature is going up slowly. Very slowly.
2. The sea level rise will never get to the point of where something horrific happens like Flordia is underwater. At least not in our lifetimes. It also happens so slowly that it wouldn't be like a flash flood, it's like dripping water filling your sink.
3. There is literally nothing you can do about it. Even if the US stopped putting out any CO2, newly industrialized nations and China don't give a ***. Especially China. Whenever someone asks them to lower their CO2 they give them the middle finger. I haven't seen this much concentrated wrong in one post in a while. Perhaps it should be diluted down with water and used to create several more less terrible posts.
[+]
Ragnarok.Sekundes
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4217
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-06-20 14:34:12
If the grid is available, being on it saves quite a bit of money even if you HAVE a solar unit. Typically, your utility provider can buy up the excess energy your system delivers and then you can use grid energy at night or when the solar unit isn't providing enough energy for your current usage. Usually you'll make money with standard usage and a decent system. Batteries are one of the most expensive components of a off grid system and they have environmental drawbacks as well. (Limited life span, chemicals ect.)
Caitsith.Sai
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 702
By Caitsith.Sai 2012-06-20 15:28:18
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »If the grid is available, being on it saves quite a bit of money even if you HAVE a solar unit. Typically, your utility provider can buy up the excess energy your system delivers and then you can use grid energy at night or when the solar unit isn't providing enough energy for your current usage. Usually you'll make money with standard usage and a decent system. Batteries are one of the most expensive components of a off grid system and they have environmental drawbacks as well. (Limited life span, chemicals ect.)
Referring more to future potential, not the current tech so much.
Clearly, once everyone has a true self sustainable solar unit on their residence there would be no market to sell back energy, so the grid would be useless to residences at that point.
Industrial complexes are another matter of course.
Bahamut.Paulus
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 619
By Bahamut.Paulus 2012-06-20 15:33:46
Hey guys the only thing that effects the earths temperature is CO2!
Wait no, there are tons of factors that can go into the earths temperature.
I have poured tons of hours into researching this to get at what is really going on.
The only thing that I have found is that there is no conclusive evidence that any warming of the earth is from man made CO2.
We have been recording temperatures from only about 1850. Before that, we have to dig into the earth to get a look at what is going on.
So what was going on before 1850? A lot of variation in temperature, that's what. It goes up, it goes down. It laughs and it cries.
But when you get down to the nitty gritty of global warming and ask yourself, "Should I give a ***?" No. No you shouldn't. There are lots of more important things than worrying about something that you have no control of and you will never be effected by. But people think it's a big issue since it's highly politicized.
Here are the bullet points of why you shouldn't give a ***:
1. The temperature is going up slowly. Very slowly.
2. The sea level rise will never get to the point of where something horrific happens like Flordia is underwater. At least not in our lifetimes. It also happens so slowly that it wouldn't be like a flash flood, it's like dripping water filling your sink.
3. There is literally nothing you can do about it. Even if the US stopped putting out any CO2, newly industrialized nations and China don't give a ***. Especially China. Whenever someone asks them to lower their CO2 they give them the middle finger. I haven't seen this much concentrated wrong in one post in a while. Perhaps it should be diluted down with water and used to create several more less terrible posts.
I heard that the earth warming has more to do with increased solar activity than it does to do with industrialization. Some scientists say that this has happened before and that the increased C02 is actually lagging said increase in solar activity.
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-06-20 15:46:56
Hey guys the only thing that effects the earths temperature is CO2!
Wait no, there are tons of factors that can go into the earths temperature.
I have poured tons of hours into researching this to get at what is really going on.
The only thing that I have found is that there is no conclusive evidence that any warming of the earth is from man made CO2.
We have been recording temperatures from only about 1850. Before that, we have to dig into the earth to get a look at what is going on.
So what was going on before 1850? A lot of variation in temperature, that's what. It goes up, it goes down. It laughs and it cries.
But when you get down to the nitty gritty of global warming and ask yourself, "Should I give a ***?" No. No you shouldn't. There are lots of more important things than worrying about something that you have no control of and you will never be effected by. But people think it's a big issue since it's highly politicized.
Here are the bullet points of why you shouldn't give a ***:
1. The temperature is going up slowly. Very slowly.
2. The sea level rise will never get to the point of where something horrific happens like Flordia is underwater. At least not in our lifetimes. It also happens so slowly that it wouldn't be like a flash flood, it's like dripping water filling your sink.
3. There is literally nothing you can do about it. Even if the US stopped putting out any CO2, newly industrialized nations and China don't give a ***. Especially China. Whenever someone asks them to lower their CO2 they give them the middle finger. I haven't seen this much concentrated wrong in one post in a while. Perhaps it should be diluted down with water and used to create several more less terrible posts.
I heard that the earth warming has more to do with increased solar activity than it does to do with industrialization. Some scientists say that this has happened before and that the increased C02 is actually lagging said increase in solar activity. http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
No
Cerberus.Tikal
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-06-20 15:55:52
[+]
Shiva.Paulu
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 793
By Shiva.Paulu 2012-06-20 16:17:46
Hello, blame the sun and CO2 all you want, but the real cause behind global warming is neither. Support for my claims.
In closing, fodder that.
Cerberus.Tikal
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-06-20 16:25:29
Hello, blame the sun and CO2 all you want, but the real cause behind global warming is neither. Support for my claims.
In closing, fodder that. I feel that your graph caters to the Liberal Agenda, and does not properly articulate how much more the sun contributes to global warming than CO2.
Cerberus.Eugene
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-06-20 16:50:39
The answer - from the scientific community - is a resounding "yes." Those answers are based on the earth indeed warming, but always without the frame of reference that the earth has been warming for 40,000 years. Pathetic that they fall to correlation = causation.
That and Controversy = grant money.
That increasing the concentration of carbon dioxide in an atmosphere increases the average retention of radiation is not a politically or economically motivated statment, it's a physical fact.
That we have significantly altered the biomass of the earth and harmed its ability to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere isn't a politically or economically motivated statement, it's a fact.
That we are currently releasing at rapid rates vast quantities of CO2 that were "meant" to be dealt with 300 million years ago, but were instead buried because plants got too clever for a little while ... isn't a politically or economically motivated statement, it's a fact.
Except global temps have been flat for the last decade....
Patently false. They haven't rose in matter of multiple degrees every year, but they have rose in fractions.
Quote: Temperatures in the lower troposphere have increased between 0.13 and 0.22 °C (0.22 and 0.4 °F) per decade since 1979, according to satellite temperature measurements. Climate proxies show the temperature to have been relatively stable over the one or two thousand years before 1850, with regionally varying fluctuations such as the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age.[29]
The problem isn't that the the temperature this decade is .4 degrees warmer than last decade. The problem is that the warming is cumulative, the Earth gets warmer, and doesn't cool down. Extrapolate that increase over a century or two, you have a significant shift.
Bahamut.Cuelebra
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2012-06-20 16:54:11
I heard that the earth warming has more to do with increased solar activity than it does to do with industrialization. Some scientists say that this has happened before and that the increased C02 is actually lagging said increase in solar activity.
There is a theory known as the Pendulum affect which is what I think you are referring to, however, the research to support it is very difficult to perform since its on the basis that the earth shifts temperatures periodically
Cerberus.Eugene
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-06-20 16:58:53
Solar variation can and does have an appreciable affect on the planet's temperature. It has been ruled out as the primary source of the most recent warming trend however.
Bismarck.Ihina
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2012-06-20 17:08:05
Just gonna post this once in awhile
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm
Quote: However, what are most interesting are responses compared to the level of expertise in climate science. Of scientists who were non-climatologists and didn't publish research, 77% answered yes. In contrast, 97.5% of climatologists who actively publish research on climate change responded yes. As the level of active research and specialization in climate science increases, so does agreement that humans are significantly changing global temperatures.
No, you don't know better than climatologist, who spend their whole lives studying this stuff, because you saw a bunch of charts and watch Fox News.
Like the title says... The time is coming soon, where we will vote for our new President...... Personally, I believe the only person that would actually be good for this country is Ron Paul, everyone else seems like a bullshitter!
so who do you like?
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