Ballista Tournament |
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Ballista Tournament
Phoenix.Urteil said: » Lol. PvP on XI can be fun, but if you think it's balanced idk. Much better games to be playing if you want to PvP. :x Edit: Anyway, my point is it was rather silly of you to say people who only do PvE on a game that was designed with only PvE in mind, suck at XI.
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Even WoW is designed with PvE in mind.
I think its silly for people to be half good at a game, and claim to be good at it. When everyone whines about Abyssea etc being so easy. The system has more depth than you'd ever realize, but its easier for you to ignore that and hide your head in the sand. I'm actually not sure how to calculate the accuracy of a sample based on its size. I'm not really mathematically inclined.
For shield block rate tests I usually do about 3k hits. But I forget what the confidence range for that size was. Now, 3k hits, is one thing. 3k casts, in a timed area is clearly unreasonable. I think what I'd do, is do as many casts as I can get in per reservation, and make that my basic sample size. Unless someone with better math skill can say how many casts we need for a reasonable lvl of accuracy. Also, I'd suggest testing something with a short recast like silence. And since you don't wanna waste time waiting for it to wear off when it lands, you'll either need a ton of echo drops, or a friend to silena spam the one being silenced. (I don't think you can have the person enfeebing do it can you? can ppl on opposing ballista teams cure each other?) Ragnarok.Martel said: » I'm actually not sure how to calculate the accuracy of a sample based on its size. I'm not really mathematically inclined. For shield block rate tests I usually do about 3k hits. But I forget what the confidence range for that size was. Now, 3k hits, is one thing. 3k casts, in a timed area is clearly unreasonable. I think what I'd do, is do as many casts as I can get in per reservation, and make that my basic sample size. Unless someone with better math skill can say how many casts we need for a reasonable lvl of accuracy. Also, I'd suggest testing something with a short recast like silence. And since you don't wanna waste time waiting for it to wear off when it lands, you'll either need a ton of echo drops, or a friend to silena spam the one being silenced. (I don't think you can have the person enfeebing do it can you? can ppl on opposing ballista teams cure each other?) I was thinking a thousand? Also no they can't, and you build resistance with diminishing returns, so its even harder to test. WoW and RIFT are designed for both PvP and PvE, they have development hours put into both and every patch and most hotfixes cater to both, including the balance tweaks that classes need and that FFXI hasn't gotten since Ballista/Brenner first came out.
Trying to say that FFXI's PvP is to be considered as anything more than a mild novelty that you do when you're bored is silly. People who don't do PvE suck. Valefor.Prothescar said: » WoW and RIFT are designed for both PvP and PvE, they have development hours put into both and every patch and most hotfixes cater to both, including the balance tweaks that classes need and that FFXI hasn't gotten since Ballista/Brenner first came out. Trying to say that FFXI's PvP is to be considered as anything more than a mild novelty that you do when you're bored is silly. People who don't do PvE suck. As soon as Dreadspikes came out the nerfed the hell out of that. They nerfed Sekkanoki numerous times making the accuracy terrible in there, and recently around a two years ago Excalibur had its en-effect drastically shortened. Maybe its not the same quantity but there are still fixes here and there. And there have been ninja updates here and there, because we all know that every change in the game is always put into the notes! And speaking of PvE go get a relic. Phoenix.Urteil said: » Also no they can't, and you build resistance with diminishing returns, so its even harder to test. Phoenix.Urteil said: » Even WoW is designed with PvE in mind. I think its silly for people to be half good at a game, and claim to be good at it. When everyone whines about Abyssea etc being so easy. WoW was designed with both in mind. If PvP were designed in a way that was much better than the current system, sure. But as it stands now if you're an Arma COR or what have you, you pretty much destroy everyone. Anyway, I think it's silly that you're judging people's 'worth' based on content that wasn't even implemented that well. Yes it's fun, but it doesn't make you any better/worse of a player by being good at it. Sure you get a little more bragging rights because you can say, "hey I can rape you with wildfire"... but anyone can do that. Some jobs take more skill than others, but something something bad game design etc. Yes Abyssea is stupidly easy. Yes PvP is more difficult because you don't just auto-attack and hit your WS macro, or play Pokemon while healing... pretty much everything ever is. Voidwatch requires some skill organization, but it's not as difficult as I'd like it to be. /shrug Kinda rambling, but PvP wasn't designed well, lack of job balance, etc. I should also mention that Ballista doesn't happen on 99% of the servers, and fighting on the shoreline in Puronogo feels silly. Phoenix.Urteil said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » WoW and RIFT are designed for both PvP and PvE, they have development hours put into both and every patch and most hotfixes cater to both, including the balance tweaks that classes need and that FFXI hasn't gotten since Ballista/Brenner first came out. Trying to say that FFXI's PvP is to be considered as anything more than a mild novelty that you do when you're bored is silly. People who don't do PvE suck. As soon as Dreadspikes came out the nerfed the hell out of that. And there have been ninja updates here and there, because we all know that every change in the game is always put into the notes! People who don't do PvP suck. And speaking of PvE go get a relic. Someone's full of mayad because they can't play real PvP games :C There's a reason people don't play PvP in FFXI: It sucks. ITT: 50% of ffxi is PvE 50% of ffxi is PvP
Ragnarok.Martel said: » Phoenix.Urteil said: » Also no they can't, and you build resistance with diminishing returns, so its even harder to test. Exactly, but I wouldn't have it any other way. It makes it so chain CC'ing becomes impossible with resist setups. Asura.Leonlionheart said: » ITT: 50% of ffxi is PvE 50% of ffxi is PvP In the wrong thread cowboy. Fenrir.Niniann said: » Phoenix.Urteil said: » Even WoW is designed with PvE in mind. I think its silly for people to be half good at a game, and claim to be good at it. When everyone whines about Abyssea etc being so easy. WoW was designed with both in mind. If PvP were designed in a way that was much better than the current system, sure. But as it stands now if you're an Arma COR or what have you, you pretty much destroy everyone. Anyway, I think it's silly that you're judging people's 'worth' based on content that wasn't even implemented that well. Yes it's fun, but it doesn't make you any better/worse of a player by being good at it. Sure you get a little more bragging rights because you can say, "hey I can rape you with wildfire"... but anyone can do that. Some jobs take more skill than others, but something something bad game design etc. Yes Abyssea is stupidly easy. Yes PvP is more difficult because you don't just auto-attack and hit your WS macro, or play Pokemon while healing... pretty much everything ever is. Voidwatch requires some skill organization, but it's not as difficult as I'd like it to be. /shrug Kinda rambling, but PvP wasn't designed well, lack of job balance, etc. I should also mention that Ballista doesn't happen on 99% of the servers, and fighting on the shoreline in Puronogo feels silly. If you read the entire post, you'd see the reasoning behind it without both, I find a person to be lackluster. But on the same token you can just throw bodies at things in PvE and win, where a skilled group of people can low-man and achieve victory under more extreme conditions. So in the end nothing is really worth bragging about as the systems are all flawed in someway. My statement simply is, a person who truly aspires to be great, should master and participate in all systems of the game. Even if their job could not claim victory under a hard counter, there would still be merit in pushing their limits. PS - I don't get raped with Wildfire, because I'm not terrible. Phoenix.Urteil said: » I don't get raped with Wildfire, because I'm not terrible. My point was that there's stupid game imbalances, but whatever. I can literally walk into PvP on WHM, stack resist/PDT gear and never die and keep my party alive. Seems a little silly to me. Fenrir.Niniann said: » Phoenix.Urteil said: » I don't get raped with Wildfire, because I'm not terrible. My point was that there's stupid game imbalances, but whatever. I can literally walk into PvP on WHM, stack resist/PDT gear and never die and keep my party alive. Seems a little silly to me. That's very unlikley in a team battle, being focus fired by Apocalypse, Konzen-Ittai, and Sidewinders. Unless everyone is terrible and doesn't make WHM numero uno. Let me break it down for you: when you have to beg people to play with you and offer extensive rewards just to do so, it speaks a lot about the polish and prestige of FFXI PvP.
Phoenix.Urteil said: » That's very unlikley in a team battle, being focus fired by Apocalypse, Konzen-Ittai, and Sidewinders. k Valefor.Prothescar said: » Let me break it down for you: when you have to beg people to play with you and offer extensive rewards just to do so, it speaks a lot about the polish and prestige of FFXI PvP. I think your confusing begging for advocating and promoting. And by extensive you're overestimating how little it is to me. So all I got from that post is: I'm better than you.
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If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ"
P.S. Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™ Hmm, this brings up another potential issue.
Does the game check resist traits, or magic acc/eva first? Meaning, if you would have resisted the spell anyway, can the trait proc? If it checks magic acc/eva first(which I would think it would) then as your resistance builds, you'll start wasting casts with resists that fail to check the trait. Reducing the amount of usable data we get for the number of casts. It's kinda like trying to test block rate on mobs that miss alot. It sucks, and takes forever. If this is the case, then we'd want the enfeebler to have as high skill/acc as possible while the enfeebled used any magic eva-/elemental resistance- gear available. Or, I suppose you could just kill the enfeebled when ever he starts resisting, right? I'd think that reset it. But better M.acc should give you more casts before you'd have to rest. Valefor.Prothescar said: » If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ" P.S. Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™ Neither is Konzen-Ittai, obviously because I'm not awful, I was talking about swinging with it to incur the 20% ODD, Ittai for the Instant SC, and Sidewinder because its a staple. Ragnarok.Martel said: » Hmm, this brings up another potential issue. Does the game check resist traits, or magic acc/eva first? Meaning, if you would have resisted the spell anyway, can the trait proc? If it checks magic acc/eva first(which I would think it would) then as your resistance builds, you'll start wasting casts with resists that fail to check the trait. Reducing the amount of usable data we get for the number of casts. It's kinda like trying to test block rate on mobs that miss alot. It sucks, and takes forever. If this is the case, then we'd want the enfeebler to have as high skill/acc as possible while the enfeebled used any magic eva-/elemental resistance- gear available. Or, I suppose you could just kill the enfeebled when ever he starts resisting, right? I'd think that reset it. But better M.acc should give you more casts before you'd have to rest. From what I see it uses the "Resist Trait" as a type of parry. With your elemental resistance + your MND having some effect on a natural resist vs a trait resist. If you naturally resist something you get a different message, when you resist a spell it says: Resist! Urteil xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Phoenix.Urteil said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ" P.S. Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™ Neither is Konzen-Ittai, obviously because I'm not awful, I was talking about swinging with it to incur the 20% ODD, Ittai for the Instant SC, and Sidewinder because its a staple. If they're good why are they getting hit by any of those besides Sidewinder? Valefor.Prothescar said: » Phoenix.Urteil said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ" P.S. Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™ Neither is Konzen-Ittai, obviously because I'm not awful, I was talking about swinging with it to incur the 20% ODD, Ittai for the Instant SC, and Sidewinder because its a staple. If they're good why are they getting hit by any of those besides Sidewinder? Because you can't move while casting. Weapon Bash. Blade Bash. Shadowbind. Stun. Bind. Sleep II. Directional Input /Sprint Crowd control. You know, any of those esoteric and incredibly hard to grasp things. Phoenix.Urteil said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » Phoenix.Urteil said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » If by better you mean pathetic then yes, you are a bit better than me. You see sir, resorting to saying "People who don't PvP suck" in a Final Fantasy MMORPG is like walking into Starcraft II and saying "YOU DUN PLAY CAMPUGN 9 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE THE FAIL LOLZ" P.S. Apocalypse isn't a weaponskill. ™ Neither is Konzen-Ittai, obviously because I'm not awful, I was talking about swinging with it to incur the 20% ODD, Ittai for the Instant SC, and Sidewinder because its a staple. If they're good why are they getting hit by any of those besides Sidewinder? Because you can't move while casting. Weapon Bash. Blade Bash. Shadowbind. Stun. Bind. Sleep II. Crowd control. You know, any of those esoteric and incredibly hard to grasp things. Oh yes it is difficult to grasp, mostly the part of you being so adamant about one of the worst and most broken PvP systems I've seen since I played a card game with my 4 year old niece. Valefor.Prothescar said: » And you're an ***. What's your point? Hahahaha. I win. Goodnight
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