PLD Relic/mythic/emp Discussion

>Contribute to thread
>No numbers
>No parse
>Nothing useful besides eyeballed ws numbers
Why do you guys do this?

@_@;

Imo, PLD is all about balance.
I seen many PLD without any -PDT or -MDT on them.
PLD can do damage for sure. Best thing is to swap WS gear imo, not full time it, unless it's a piece of gear (DD)so better than anything else if you compare to other things PLD need.
I think you should aim for a balance of -PDT, -MDT, haste (helps recast flash faster and add a little damage too) HP and enmity.
Which piece is better? Very hard to say. You can put more -PDT there and switch more haste in other place etc. What's important in the end is that you keep hate, mitigate dmg, and help deal some damage when possible.

As for relic/emp/mythic, it's the same.

Normally CDC does more dmg than other WS.
But you take less dmg with Burt. Which result in less hate loss too.

So which is better? Impossible to say imo.

It depends on all the gear around it and mob you face.

You know you can use macros right? PDT gear when getting hit by a physical TP move, MDT when getting hit by a magical spell/tp move, and haste gear when TPing and casting Flash. You don't need to wear them all at the same time.


This is true, but usually Almace/Ochain win. :x

The thing about Burtgang is nothing requires its PDT to justify its use and kill your damage output. Basically the same reason Haute was considered a ***sword at 75.

If they un-nerfed atonement I could see it being a strong weapon but at the moment that is one of the huge things holding it back.

I could see Burtgang making a comeback against extremely high DEF targets that don't resist Atonement in the future. Swing distribution is pretty hot now.

That said, even without Atonement cockblocking, CDC is extremely powerful, and it would have to be doing *** to something to warrant the switch.

doing ***? lol

Gay on the mind, all day every day.

w

Asura.Arthuruss said: »
I think you should aim for a balance of -PDT, -MDT, haste (helps recast flash faster and add a little damage too) HP and enmity.

You know you can use macros right? PDT gear when getting hit by a physical TP move, MDT when getting hit by a magical spell/tp move, and haste gear when TPing and casting Flash. You don't need to wear them all at the same time.

Quote:
As for relic/emp/mythic, it's the same.

Normally CDC does more dmg than other WS.
But you take less dmg with Burt. Which result in less hate loss too.

So which is better? Impossible to say imo.

It depends on all the gear around it and mob you face.

This is true, but usually Almace/Ochain win. :x
********


Well i disagree with you, which doesn't mean youi aren't right. But from my personnal experience, i seen Almace/Aegis PLD be a lot more constant.
And for macroing in gear, yes when possible. But now many mobs use instant cast or ability that will 1 shot you if no -PDT or -MDT on.
Yes there is some things like Scherzo helping with it, but i speak in a more general way.

Can't gearswap because the healers lose target, duh.

Most things aren't that instant you have time to macro gear, and I've never seen anyone get one-shotted. :/

Well you must be pretty fast O.O ...
And if you don't , you take a lot more dmg that you should have, as pld.

But then again, it's me.

I prefer a balance and switch gear for additional enmity when cure or flash and WS.

If you're not getting 1-shotted it doesn't matter *that* much honestly, and you'd be better of tping in haste gear than some mis-matched set... The obviously solution is suck less and hit your macros when you see the monster readying a tp move? :x

Also remember that WHMs have infinite MP unless your alliance is failing with procs.

First of all, I find it incredibly funny how ppl, who don't even have a particular job lvl'd themselves (which doesn't nessesarily mean that they don't have a point or never have played it on a different about, to be fair), judge about it in such a cocky way.

Of course, ppl have a point by saying that meleeing in haste gear all the time and just swapping in PDT/MDT as needed but I find it hard to believe that most ppl, that don't have the best reflexes in the world, are able to do this on a lot of stuff that this would be needed for (on a constant basis anyway, rather than a lucky shot). Taking into account that you also have to do your normal job and not only stand around looking silly, doing nothing but waiting for that particular situation (the enemy readies a TP-move or a spell) to happen.
With that in mind, if you have enough time to switch to a different set, in order to anticipate devasting dmg, you would have a stunner take care of it to begin with. If that's not the case, you wouldn't want to risk taking that dmg by relying solely on your own speed, because if you *** it up, you *** your whole team up (for good or for at least 5 minutes).

I've yet to fight something of value where a haste set would be the best option to maintain. Keeping in mind though, that I don't own an Ochain or an Aegis.
I've tried quite a few times to start out with a haste set and always found myself being more efficient with a pdt/shield skill set, or even an MDT set in rare cases.

On a side-note, if you are really refering to WHMs having infinite mp and not giving a rat's *** about dmg taken, then why not just use a DD tank in the first place?
It's not a PLD's job to do dmg and it will NOT help them at all in the long run, other than killing faster but also risking to die as well.
No PLD can ever out-do a real DD and capping hate is not a problem at all, nowadays even less than it used to be. If someone has capped hate, it wont help a single bit if the PLD hits a little faster, since he can never hit fast enough.

On topic now though:
I'm of the opinion that all swords have their benefits, just as every gear set does.
They are pretty much all situational and if I had to choose one, I'd try to think about what situations I find myself in the most.
Like, if you have the feeling that most of the stuff you tank does require you using a PDT set, just go for burtang then.
Sadly, I don't know how Excal and Almace compare in pure dmg though but one is easier to make than the other, for most ppl.

In any case though, I'd always recommend making an Almace, as you also should have a haste/DD set in your repertoire and it's particularly easy to make as well (considering you'd have the means to do the other swords as well).

Let us not forget that most mobs aren't constantly spamming TP moves or magic. Even if you are slow on macros, you can still get a few swings in on a haste/offensive set to then pop on your -dt early. I believe some feel they are not fast enough on such gear swaps because they have not been tanking enough. I don't know a quality tank that cannot appropriately determine around when a mob is going to cast/have TP ready. As one becomes more comfortable with the mob, they can maximize the time in an offensive set and minimize the time between their -dt and the mob using a tp move/cast a spell.

I think it's safe to ignore bad players in conversations like this.

pro only etc

Not to echo countless posts already, but that's a pretty stupid argument. Anyone able to use their brain or run basic highschool math with a calculator can simulate any and all jobs/situations.


I don't know what things people are fighting that they immediately wipe to a TP move or spell in they don't hit their macro fast enough. The "instant TP" argument falls pretty flat when no one is able to actually give an example of an instantly used TP move. That said, can always not use shitty players.


??????

If you /NIN you should be in this set when shadows are up. /WAR or shadows down you can use this set while rotating Palisade/Reprisal.


A PLDs job is to maintain enmity. Damage is the best form of enmity generation (why do you think Atonement was so awesome?). Killing faster =/= less damage taken overall. Saying it's not your job to contribute to damage is absurd.


Capping hate isn't no. It's still slower than how fast DDs will cap theirs. That and you don't have a clue about VE, swinging faster will help you maintain enmity, XI 101.


Nothing should require you to exceed the given caps on these stats. Both Aegis and Burtgang offer nice bonuses, you should never need them to be a good tank.

Small nitpick not an attack, but paladin has recieved more useful gear to maintain a more DD/defensive status.

PLD is not turban/hauby+1/dusk+1/homam/homam anymore, that offered nothing in protection while it DD'd, though it was fine at the time as it hid in shadows(I for one have been DD pld since before atonement existed) and even then ppl didnt conform to that when they were being protected with shadows.

However now SE has given us the creed set, body/hands/legs all offer att/acc/haste and some defensive boost that no other piece can give you. Feet I can see being situational, if you have an Ochain, no reason not to have them outside of a few high tier VW that ochains block rate drops(reprisal+JA are there to compensate) or if you go /nin. Head, Chersos helm overs both haste and -pdt no reason you cant have the best of both worlds. The only other option with haste is waist, unless you're getting blasted by high physical damage, you should be fine with a haste belt, when things go bad...macro in your flume belt.

You can easily make sacrifices to your gear if you -feel- uncomfortable or unsure about your overall performance:
twilight torque + phasmida belt
creed earring(not even necessary use ethereal/supp) + Brutal
Dark ring/Dring + Rajas/mars
Atheling mantle + Angha gem(or if youre really uptight about it Mollusca mantle + oneiros pebble)

You have yourself a healthy 32-35pdt(24-26 of that being able to reduce magic damage aswell) 18-22% haste, 35-63att, 5-8% DA, 35-47acc, 3-15shield skill*

So stating that haste set is not an option to maintain is a bit irrational considering you can maintain a haste setup easily while keeping yourself in a defensive manner and still providing your pld with an offense.



*numbers vary do to all the combinations you can make with some pieces. In the end no reason not to use haste pieces...

There are a lot of bad PLD's out there.

I know dmg output is different between the 3 swords, but does anyone actually have any hard data to back up what they're saying?

How much does KOTR/Atonement/CDC do at 90/95?
Wouldn't Occ att 2-3 times offer some kind of decent boost to DPS?

Fwiw
From the parses I've seen or parsed, if I can remember to click start parse, Almace DPS/WS damage is roughly 20/80 on VW. Hi2U Dusty wing

Which has nothing to do with anything since this would imply that most ppl commenting would actually do this, let alone be capable of doing so.
Furthermore, theoretically knowing how a job (or anything, for that matter) works, doesn't mean that one has the slightest clue how it works in reality. So, your point?

My point hasn't been about the fact that tp-moves are instant and that it's impossible to hit a macro, but the fact that you are usually doing a lot of other things between tp-moves and everyone's reaction-time, that has nothing to do with whether or not ppl suck. If you're driving a car, you cannot react instantly either if something happens almost instantly, that's what you factor savety distance in for etc.

As I was saying, I haven't had a situation yet where tanking in DD (haste) gear most of the time would make me feel any comfortable while doing my job. Factoring in shield blocks and dmg taken mainly. What is your point? It's obvious that you have those gear options available but from the sound of it, you have haste gear on for the duration of reprisal/pallisade and don't switch to any other gear set during that phase. If that is not the case, however, I would think about how many benefits you will actually gain from having haste on for maybe 10 seconds total if you are casting stuff, using JAs and switching to PDT/MDT sets half of the time.

False, you obviously only try to find something to pick on because of boredom. It's all not a secret that a PLD's source of enmity also contains of dealing dmg and "dealing dmg" was meant in the sense of dealing noticalble dmg and not any dmg at all. This being said, you could even not deal any dmg at all and still cap hate, so what is your point on this one too? I think you're not understanding enmity that well here, unless they changed the fact that you do lose enmity when losing HP.
I've mentioned that the only benefits are killing faster but for this matter, you shouldn't be relying on the PLD.
Contributing is ok but show me that a PLD does significantly increase the killing speed by maintaining hate and dmg reduction over any serious DD (including mages).
You can swing as much as you want and you will never even get close to being any serious.
Again, it's not a PLD's job and it's not any hard to maintain hate without using a haste set. I don't know if you are assuming that no person but the PLD get's any buffs and is completely alone on the mob. Once hate is capped, it's easier for almost every job to keep it.
Are you telling me that, with a haste set, a PLD would keep hate against any DD out there?
If you can't do it without it, you certainly aren't going to with it, as much as you'd like to.

If you want your opinions to be taken seriously, I strongly suggest you invest in some proper grammatical structure in your posts. I'm not being a ***, I just can't get through your entire posts.

You're certainly correct that PLD get's more options in the haste department than it used to in the past. However, I've made bad experiences with half-assed gear sets which you would have to change for every other fight. A hybrid set has, so far, never been any close to a set of one particular kind. Be it shield skill, haste, and so on.
However, since I don't like to make a gear set for every NM that is running around in ffxi, I stick to having a full set of every kind (at least trying to for most, as I have access to things).

Ideally, of course, you'd have only as much shield skill, PDT or MDT as you really need and fill up the rest of the slots with haste.
Also, you'd have exactly the amount of enmity in your macros that you would need to cap hate again etc. But it's not a perfect world.

I, indeed, understand your point and not having an offence isn't an option for most battles. But one also always has to take into account ppl's means to obtain things and their actual value in most situations.

I'm sorry, I tend to write a lot to include more things in order to convay the message and to exclude the chance of ppl reading it wrong or refering to things I didn't mean to say.
Which happens anyway, since ppl are dumb and/or don't like to read. I'm not free from that either though.

Try separating your thoughts into more paragraphs than you currently are, and using indentation at the beginning of each. General rule of thumb on the internet is that the more sentences grouped together, the harder it is to read.

I honestly am sorry for bad grammar and paragraphs. >_< Can we now move on?
I appreciate the advise though, even though, I will probably be doing how I do it until I get more practice with it.

All I can hope for is ppl getting the gist.