Camlann's Torment

Fanatics drink doesn't last forever.

Yeah it's a very nifty ability isn't it :D? It makes you go pew pew so much faster.

Now outside of pointing out the obvious. Do you have anything to say in regards to the actual NM itself for what voidwatch is?

It doesn't have to. Temps should be getting recharged constantly, enough so that you can swing a Fanatic's at least every 2 minutes without much trouble. That's >50% uptime with immunity to all melee and TP damage, sufficient to cover you on all but a handful of NMs. In fact, the only exceptions that come to mind are Ildebrann (because of Absolute Terror) and Modron, whose moves bypass both Fanatic's and Fool's. Of the two, only Ildebrann is actually worth farming. I should also point out that Store TP and Meditate let you proc faster and thus resume damage faster, and that Sekkanoki is quite useful too given all the TP you have access to considering Regain, Save TP, Meditate, Jumps, and constantly replenished Dusty Wings.

None of our DDs use /THF on Hahava or any other Voidwatch NM.

Different strats for different johns. We personally only have our SAM(s) sub THF. Since voidwatch is fairly rough sometimes I can't sit here and agree that we proc everything as soon as it's up and ready to be hit. To warrant unlimited drinks.

There comes a point where your BLUE is capped, and you no longer need Melee Ws's but your red is low so you need to focus on that red which is strictly magic procs.

Hahava, while he does have two different stances his Weaponskills are still Meelee. Which do fairly high damage, and when he isn't doing that he's casting fairly devastating magic. So, even if you have fanatics up, it won't cover the other. If you have fool's up it won't cover the other crap it spams. So the thought of staying on to tp, and feed TP just seems a bit silly especially since you more than likely won't even be able to hit with certain weapons since DRG is only great with Staff and Polearm realistically.

Sure you can dump a Wing on a weapon, but wings are not unlimited.

Regardless Hahava was just one sample.

You're working on multiple procs simultaneously, so you don't have to hit them immediately as long as there's a relatively steady stream.

If you cap one light, it still makes sense to keep working on procs for it (especially high procs) for temps, blitz lights, and a chance at a new proc for the other type.

Stun?

They're replenished just as awesome as drinks.

Feel free to try another NM.

You realize the point I'm making is Blue Procs fast enough to warrant DD being worthless past that point.

Black Mages will drop the enemy past 50% Easily. These VNMs don't have a lot of HP.

You're left with a 20%-30% HP Mob at this point, which is dumb to TP spam.

Feel free to try other alternative methods in the game. That do work.

Voidwatch = Cap Lights -> Kill. Not Kill while getting some lights.

Funny, that's exactly how we go about it. Neither red nor blue procs should take all that much time unless you get unlucky with a lot of procs you don't have in your alliance, in which case your DDs disengage anyway because they're out of temps and thus your damage output is reduced enough to give you time to work on what procs you do have. BLMs should be focusing on red triggers and stun first, damage second. Melee drop the NM's HP faster, can get more kills in within the same timeframe.

My reasoning isn't Melee Vs. Mage in a speed trial.

It's simply that while the mages are getting Red Capped, the monster is losing a -lot- of HP. Especially since the DD are on as well, working on Blue.

It's random. We don't go into VW with a PUP, or a BST. (There in lies the problem) however, I'm sure most groups don't go in with a PUP or a BST anyways. But these two can proc, and often times do.

At this point, you're left to do what you can with the 2 available slots for proc trying to build blue. Yes this would take sometime.

Point and Case however is, that DD's will be off the monsters more than 60% of the time. Especially if lights are unlucky as stated.

At which point, you're left with a FAIRLY low HP mob, that won't take much to kill at all.

That aside, I'm sure we understand the proc system and that lights are important.

The main issue you disagreed with, was subbing something other than SAM on DRG for VW. My argument is, realistically, there are people who sub DNC and crap just to be able to proc on monsters.

Case and point, it doesn't really matter what you sub when the focus is Lights -> Kill, and your group is full of well geared people.

THF isn't a very attractive sub, nor is any other sub aside SAM if the focus is to outperform, and destroy. This is known, noted, and acknowledged.

Edit: The idea on THF sub for Hahava, was to end quickly with a hard hitting SA WS. Since the SAM will more than likely simply open a skill chain and end the monster when mages MB.

SAM is also the sub of choice for procing, so by your own argument /THF is inferior because it contributes nothing to procing and is inferior to /SAM for DPS. Same argument can be made for /WAR vs /THF for SAM if you don't have them /RNG, which does bring something to the table proc-wise if you don't have a RNG main.

Your argument had nothing to do with why people go /DNC, your argument was that people go /THF to SATA>WS. /DNC adds utility, /THF gives you epeen WS.

Well Hahava is a special case since he takes a % based less weaponskill damage amount. So for those last few %'s it doesn't take many ws's to end it. In which case SA WS Chain will do more damage in that small bit.

That's the only idea for it.

The only thing I was saying for DRG is that it can work the same if you choose to fill that role of being the Chain Guy.

More so focused on solo light with Camlann's than anything really. Since it would obviously make it do more damage.

Everything else is pretty much correct, /SAM is superior for DRG in VW.

Thanks, there's been a lot of good info here. I understand that voidwatch isn't a zerg, I guess I was just looking for firsthand experience on how CT performs on difficult content outside abyssea. I wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my time on a high damage drakesbane-only stick. It sounds like it's worth putting up the aftermath then using drakes for the duration, which is what I was hoping. With the ws itself being situationally useful, and the ability to solo light sc, I think I'm going to go ahead and finish the rhongo.

Just reading this thread makes me wanna log in solely to solo on DRG.

I can see you've made up your mind already but I'm going to throw this out and see if it helps you anyway.

This is my item set for CT (replace the 80 with a 90)


Work in progress, but it's served me well. Elemental Gorget/Belt really did not help as much as you'd think.

And this (I know, it's Abyssea, not VW like you asked) is a SS of absolutely owning Piasa with a Rhongomiant in less than 10 actions.



inb4 bind sys w/e thingythatiforgottodo. And I have no idea why it's so small.

You got a lucky proc on Soul Jump, and used one of the best WS in the game with a piercing weapon against a flying target, and skillchained for mirror damage.

What does this have to do with Rhongomiant?

The fact that it's fun as hell? And that it can solo Light. Mainly that it's fun though. I'm not looking for praise, I'm just showing him what a Rhongo can do. Like that CT there. Mainly use it for ODD/Opening Light and closing with Drakesbane. And assuming the mob has more HP leftover, another CT after that for double Light which is always more fun.

Dako that's a good set. However, are you sure gorget and belt doesn't give you a greater increase than those two?

I mean, unless you're fighting something with more Defense than your attack I can't really see how Belt + Torque would beat out a .19~ ftp increase on paper.

However, what Dako is showing is that the ODD procs on WS. Which is the 9k Drakesbane. Regardless of the fact that it's a piercing mob or not, that should be noted. The light damage is also pretty damn good.

Can't say I made much sense of what Dodu said...

Would Terrasoul be better than Rajas, assuming you don't need the store tp to maintain your x-hit? Other than that, your set looks very close to what I'd use, although I'd use Twilight on body since I don't have Ares.

Terrasoul would in fact be better. However, when using a WS like this you'd have to focus on a 6 hit at best. So, Raja's wouldn't be needed.

The new ring: Polearm Skill +5, VIT +5 is also a better ring as well.

New Ring + Spiral would be fairly hard to beat as a Ring Combination.

If you wanted to maintain a 5 hit with this WS, if that's what your aim is... you'd need to WS in STP gear.

I'm sure its enjoyable, but you can do that with any decent lance.


ODD doesn't proc on WS. A 9k Drakesbane against a Visions NM weak to piercing isn't that atypical.


For clarity, I'm not ragging on your SS or weapon. Empyrean lance is a pretty solid choice, but it has nothing to do with why you're able to do that >_>

You're right. He must of brewed.

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No.

The fact is that it can proc on ws, as long as you DA or TA on that WS those DA or TA have the chance of doing that lovely double damage with the wsc mods of the WS. Meaning?

9k...

10k...

Screen shots.

Doesn't matter at all that the mob is weak to piercing. Really, really doesn't.

You can sit in Abyssea, spam your Drakesbane all day and you won't hit a 9k with any weapon other than a Rhongo/Relic unless the monster typically takes 200% more damage like a Qutrub, or something like an Iron Giant during a TP move.

So no, yes that ODD can proc on WS. This is why you see the numbers you see above which are not reachable unless you meet the conditions above.

Prove it.

Spoilers: relic proc doesn't work on WS either

Can't proc on WS, probably got full crits and TA/DA proc.

Unpossible. My keen intuition is infallible, to hell with your algorithms!

Probably procced haste.

Can proc on the DOUBLE ATTACK, and TRIPLE ATTACK of the WEAPONSKILL.

You want me to prove it? Why don't you go sit at Piasa camp as long as you want. RR, SS, Apoc. Tell me how it goes, post your results. I'll give you a cookie if you ding 8k more than 1k less than that Camlann's.

You can even use something like RR GH SS to even up your chances of a full crit and just hope you DA.

Happy hunting.

Whip out a calculator and demonstrate your superior mastery over the game's damage equations.

Also, are you aware how small the increase to the WS in total would be in the event of a DA/TA proc ODD'ing?

Edit: ohgodlol, I'm arguing with the guy suggesting DRG/THF for VW.

*whips out calculator* MY CALCULATOR IS BIGGER THAN YOURS

lol

That avatar is very fitting for you.

Nevermind, you can't even do this test. DRG 37, awesome.

Must be Camlann's specific, then.

I suppose I oughta clarify cuz I was half asleep when I posted it. RR/VV/Apoc, more than likely a triple attack, and I did use a stalwarts and a champ tonic, so crit rate was pretty much up there and was at attack cap in WS set almost. I cheated cuz the NM was being a *** with his TP moves so I felt like owning the hell outta it. Totally want that new ring too with polearm/vit+5. Always need more skill with WS mods lol.

Far as ODD proccing on a WS, it cannot. Can't even proc on jumps which makes sense but still makes me slightly sad, til I see an aftermath + set proc for 3k then I completely forget what I was sad about :O

I can confirm that Odd does not work on WS.

I have A twash and use it daily on the ONLY job in the game with native triple atk and been using it for 90% of my playtime (i end up on thf for virtually everythign for better or worse). It would be so stupidly obvious if ODD proced on Rudras Storm its sickening. It is a terribly consistent WS and any huge spikey variation would be instantly recognizable.

1 hit, zero crit WS on a job with native triple attack (ie it happens often in and outside abyssea) would be exceptionally clear to see an ODD proc on multi hit procs compared to a 4hit crit based WS that can be ALL over the board with multi attacks and crits swinging your damage all over the planet. I dont have to be in abyssea for multi procs and can get much cleaner readings without atmas screwing things up.

I dont know where you heard it from, but im guessing you saw some absurd spike in damage using a WS with ODD up that you did not know how to explain. Ive been adding up damage on paper and corroborating it with in game observations for around 7 years now at least. I can tell you with certainty the numbers you saw are completely explainable with normal means.
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As for this, love torque is a rather poor choice. Apathy beats love torque by miles (9vit necklace) and Sea gorget +1 ftp beats that by almost double the power. WS sea gorgets are the way to go for CT until something better comes along.

Same with the belt. Unfortunately, until we get the exact (hell even a guess) on how much def CT ignores, i cant say with the 100% certainty id like to that WS belt FTP bonus beats 15 atk because i cant run the numbers. But my gut from calculating for years STRONGLY suggests that the FTP belt would beat an atk belt on CT because it ignores Def. Your pdif will be very high if not capped on most things making atk less potent than on a normal WS.

Also terrasoul beats rajas for raw damage if you dont need the STP to maintain Xhit.
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Also, if a mob is so dangerous you dont want to melee, yes Sams often go /thf because they can get TP freely and run in to SATA WS. If a mob is to dangerous to melee and you need to proc, then /sam on drg is advantageous for procing because more TP=more procs and Sekka and Xhit build should make up the damage of a SATAWS during a zerg. SA Drakes is lame, it already crits. SA Wheeling is weak compared to drakes. SA+CT would be ok, but a Sekka CT>CT or CT>Drakes light will have more impact than a SAWS on a mini zerg anyway.

And the idea that you can spike more damage in 1 WS is kinda irrelivant if the entire argument for /thf is because the mob die to fast from proccing, then why the hell are you TRYING to do more damage when you pop in to WS using a WS that cant even proc? /thf doesnt help you proc (/sam does with more TP), it isnt exactly making your mini zergs rediculously more powerful compared to sekka+med+Xhit for spamming WS in a small timeframe, on an ignore def WS where your pdif will be neari-ish the 2.2 cap, crits dont even make as big a difference because they hard cap at 3.15 with the randomizers while melee cap pdif can cap at ~2.7 or something with randomizer, so SAWT or SA CT really arent as awesome as say, forced crit on say, rudras or mercystroke or other non-crit WS.

I DID say it was a Work in Progress. Calm down a bit eh?

Far as the Ignores Defense, it seems to be the same or slightly higher than Wheeling Thrust. The difference in damage is simply that CT is Triple Damage + Ignores Defense. I've done a lot of testing, not number crunching. This setup I'm currently using has beaten out Gorget/Belt and raised my average damage overall. I want to do more testing, but there's not much call for my DRG nowadays outside of Abyssea.