Trying to use RDM as a DD in proper fights etc is lolworthy.
Messing around alone meleeing stuff is just fine, and it allways have been.
RDM was my first job, I've been looking for cool stuff to do dmg-wise as RDM since 2004, and I've just given up on every single one.
Eventually I leveled a DD job, and I'm glad I did >_>
Even now with Almace RDM is still a rather lulzy DD, and it allways will be :P
It's better to use the job for what it's good for.
Saying RDM is supposed to be a DD is like saying DRK is supposed to be a good "Black mage".
RDM Job Manifesto
RDM Job Manifesto
Still no Cure V? Back in the closet you go, RDM. Man, I miss that job.
Cerberus.Rayik said: »
Asura.Eeek said: »
That civil war is only infernal because so many of the RDMs that post on the SE forums desperately want to melee and seem to have little idea how to gear and play RDM as a proper mage. I've never viewed FFXI's RDM as a magical swordsman, but I suppose that's because I started playing in 2006 and I tend to view jobs as they are - not as I want them to be. RDM is an outstanding generalist mage, and assuming Temper isn't limited to self-target, RDM is on its way to becoming an even stronger mage.
They might have a better idea of how to gear if some actual discussion could take place, instead of job-fascists shooting them down with "lol" and adding nothing to the conversation other than "I'm better at the job because I ignore a huge portion of it."
Instead of just making condescending remarks, how about we help look for positive means of making the melee play style better? It is an actual play style, and a part of the job, like it or not. Screaming down at people and forcing one's own play style isn't helpful.
Some RDM's want to use a sword, so let's work on ways we can make that viable? Where's the harm in that?
herp derp im a red mage and all I get is fast blade im supposed to melee clearly
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Still no Cure V? Back in the closet you go, RDM. Man, I miss that job.
RDM doesn't need Cure5... when will people realize this?
Doesn't need no, but I'd like to have it anyway cause I'm lazy and don't feel like casting cure IV on myself twice after convert. That really is it now that I think about it... I could care less about main healing.
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Trying to use RDM as a DD in proper fights etc is lolworthy.
Messing around alone meleeing stuff is just fine, and it allways have been.
RDM was my first job, I've been looking for cool stuff to do dmg-wise as RDM since 2004, and I've just given up on every single one.
Eventually I leveled a DD job, and I'm glad I did >_>
Even now with Almace RDM is still a rather lulzy DD, and it allways will be :P
It's better to use the job for what it's good for.
Saying RDM is supposed to be a DD is like saying DRK is supposed to be a good "Black mage".
Messing around alone meleeing stuff is just fine, and it allways have been.
RDM was my first job, I've been looking for cool stuff to do dmg-wise as RDM since 2004, and I've just given up on every single one.
Eventually I leveled a DD job, and I'm glad I did >_>
Even now with Almace RDM is still a rather lulzy DD, and it allways will be :P
It's better to use the job for what it's good for.
Saying RDM is supposed to be a DD is like saying DRK is supposed to be a good "Black mage".
I hear this a lot, and I think a lot of people miss the point of RDM melee. RDM will never outdamage a true DD. It's not supposed to. Any additional damage a melee RDM brings to a fight is only supplemental.
On paper, this sounds great. In the game, it doesn't work. TP feed and party role nullify a RDM's melee contribution. Everyone only wants all specialists all the time, so RDM is left out in the cold on all fronts. Mage-onry RDM's bring nothing to the table that a specialist couldn't do, except maybe Refresh II, which is a moot point in Abyssea(but damn useful in Dynamis).
RDM melee does not currently work in a group setting, so that's why a lot of us are clamoring for a fix. Hell, I'd be ecstatic if we just got Vorpal Blade or Sanguine Blade in the WS adjustment update. A good sword WS that doesn't require an Empyrean to access would be lovely.
Cerberus.Rayik said: »
Asura.Eeek said: »
That civil war is only infernal because so many of the RDMs that post on the SE forums desperately want to melee and seem to have little idea how to gear and play RDM as a proper mage. I've never viewed FFXI's RDM as a magical swordsman, but I suppose that's because I started playing in 2006 and I tend to view jobs as they are - not as I want them to be. RDM is an outstanding generalist mage, and assuming Temper isn't limited to self-target, RDM is on its way to becoming an even stronger mage.
They might have a better idea of how to gear if some actual discussion could take place, instead of job-fascists shooting them down with "lol" and adding nothing to the conversation other than "I'm better at the job because I ignore a huge portion of it."
Instead of just making condescending remarks, how about we help look for positive means of making the melee play style better? It is an actual play style, and a part of the job, like it or not. Screaming down at people and forcing one's own play style isn't helpful.
Some RDM's want to use a sword, so let's work on ways we can make that viable? Where's the harm in that?
That's the thing: few people there even care about properly gearing a RDM for mage duties - they simply want to shoehorn RDM into a melee role without any regard for RDM's stellar mage capacities. People like Neisan are the exception and few and far between.
The problem with seeking ways to make meleeRDM viable all the time is simple - it's not viable all the time, and too few RDMs on that forum understand that. This misconception does a disservice to players (and SE employees) looking for actual information and worthwhile discussion about the job.
This is why I consider Neisan outside the norm:
1) Generally speaking, people working on Almace specifically for RDM tend to understand RDM's mage capabilities and own good gearsets for mage-centric play.
2) If a RDM can make a Level90 Almace, they generally can acquire the gear needed to make strong melee RDM gearsets.
3) People who build Almaces specifically for RDM generally understand when it's appropriate to melee and when it's appropriate to play as a pure mage.
[+]
Ramuh.Rowland said: »
A summoner has always had that ability. Garuda = Hastega Ifrit's Favor = Double Attack
Double Attack =/= Occasionally Attack Twice
l2r
Leviathan.Draylo said: »
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Still no Cure V? Back in the closet you go, RDM. Man, I miss that job.
RDM doesn't need Cure5... when will people realize this?
Also this, really.
Cure5 would be a cool spell to have, but its not needed.
It would make RDM a better healer inside abyssea, but outside its as good as ever.
Cerberus.Rayik said: »
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Trying to use RDM as a DD in proper fights etc is lolworthy.
Messing around alone meleeing stuff is just fine, and it allways have been.
RDM was my first job, I've been looking for cool stuff to do dmg-wise as RDM since 2004, and I've just given up on every single one.
Eventually I leveled a DD job, and I'm glad I did >_>
Even now with Almace RDM is still a rather lulzy DD, and it allways will be :P
It's better to use the job for what it's good for.
Saying RDM is supposed to be a DD is like saying DRK is supposed to be a good "Black mage".
Messing around alone meleeing stuff is just fine, and it allways have been.
RDM was my first job, I've been looking for cool stuff to do dmg-wise as RDM since 2004, and I've just given up on every single one.
Eventually I leveled a DD job, and I'm glad I did >_>
Even now with Almace RDM is still a rather lulzy DD, and it allways will be :P
It's better to use the job for what it's good for.
Saying RDM is supposed to be a DD is like saying DRK is supposed to be a good "Black mage".
I hear this a lot, and I think a lot of people miss the point of RDM melee. RDM will never outdamage a true DD. It's not supposed to. Any additional damage a melee RDM brings to a fight is only supplemental.
On paper, this sounds great. In the game, it doesn't work. TP feed and party role nullify a RDM's melee contribution. Everyone only wants all specialists all the time, so RDM is left out in the cold on all fronts. Mage-onry RDM's bring nothing to the table that a specialist couldn't do, except maybe Refresh II, which is a moot point in Abyssea(but damn useful in Dynamis).
RDM melee does not currently work in a group setting, so that's why a lot of us are clamoring for a fix. Hell, I'd be ecstatic if we just got Vorpal Blade or Sanguine Blade in the WS adjustment update. A good sword WS that doesn't require an Empyrean to access would be lovely.
Death Blossom is a good WS.
Maybe not inside abyssea, but we'r probably done with abyssea forever now anyways.
Leviathan.Draylo said: »
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Still no Cure V? Back in the closet you go, RDM. Man, I miss that job.
RDM doesn't need Cure5... when will people realize this?
Maybe it's just the way I played it. When I started the job, it was always in parties with me on RDM, a tank and DD. I enfeebled, enhanced and cured with the occasional nuke. Now in Abyssea most of the tanks can have upwards of 5k+ hp. Suddenly a Cure IV doing 500 hp cures (if you're lucky) just doesn't cut the mustard. Nowadays most mobs don't even need to be enfeebled, which renders RDM pretty much useless. Outside of Abyssea RDM can still reign supreme, but the last time I did something outside of Abyssea was...
Holy crap, I can't remember.
I don't even care if they alter the Cure V to cure slightly less and generate gobs of hate. I just want to have my cures at least be partially up to par. I hate playing on WHM.
Quetzalcoatl.Neisan said: »
I'll melee on Rdm more seriously when I finish Almace (only use it solo most of the time). Ofc you can outmelee gimps with Twilight Knife but you could do that with a staff spamming Full Swing, so I stopped caring. That and no Zelus tiara makes me sadface, can't even melee with Dual wield ACP body I augmented :/
I'd be pretty impressed if a rdm with a staff can even use fullswing.
Well it wouldn't be fair to say it's only for Rdm since I leveled Blu for grellow procs (still keep it geared decently, just no Homam/relic head and need better str/dex/agi pieces for spells) but I'm still going to make a Melee set for Rdm and chant on it cause I like the job no matter how bad its melee is dammit. Still working on Magian Staves when I remember to put myself through it on Rdm, soloing them is slow and my Blm friend is logging on less and less :/ Cure potency/final refresh pieces and finishing Emp+2 (War was priority) still works in progress as well.
EDIT: @ sekundes: that was on War admittedly, but I was using a Jupiter's staff iirc and it was still embarrassing since I had like 250 skill at the time.
EDIT2: Not gonna lie I have to go back and get old stuff since I skipped out on it at 75 partially out of laziness and partially out of semi-depression.
EDIT: @ sekundes: that was on War admittedly, but I was using a Jupiter's staff iirc and it was still embarrassing since I had like 250 skill at the time.
EDIT2: Not gonna lie I have to go back and get old stuff since I skipped out on it at 75 partially out of laziness and partially out of semi-depression.
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Leviathan.Draylo said: »
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Still no Cure V? Back in the closet you go, RDM. Man, I miss that job.
RDM doesn't need Cure5... when will people realize this?
Also this, really.
Cure5 would be a cool spell to have, but its not needed.
It would make RDM a better healer inside abyssea, but outside its as good as ever.
I wouldn't pass up Cure V if offered to RDM, but yeah, it's not needed outside of Abyssea. I'm not sure why, but people seem to assume that those massive inside-Abyssea HP pools are now a permanent feature in the game. They're not.
EDIT @Neisan: Damn my brain. Whenever I hear of a RDM building an Almace, for some reason, my mind always neglects the fact that they probably have BLU and/or PLD leveled.
By the way, those magian staves were damned annoying to do even on BLM. I couldn't imagine doing them on RDM. I even did as many Surya's Staff +2 trials as possible on BLM. :/
I was planning on Almace before leveling BLU though, I only leveled it since no one in our group had BLU for grellow procs and I was the only person who had any interest in the job (only recently did our thf/nin/dnc level their Drk mule they got from someone else into a perma brd somewhat, otherwise our nin kept switching to their brd mule on same account). I did most of Surya+2 on rdm and the last 2 on Whm; the last trials I hijacked a friend's Mnk and massed killed pixies in La Theine.
pretty sure the only time ive ever used my almace on rdm was in salvage and campaign battling :(
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Leviathan.Draylo said: »
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Still no Cure V? Back in the closet you go, RDM. Man, I miss that job.
RDM doesn't need Cure5... when will people realize this?
Maybe it's just the way I played it. When I started the job, it was always in parties with me on RDM, a tank and DD. I enfeebled, enhanced and cured with the occasional nuke. Now in Abyssea most of the tanks can have upwards of 5k+ hp. Suddenly a Cure IV doing 500 hp cures (if you're lucky) just doesn't cut the mustard. Nowadays most mobs don't even need to be enfeebled, which renders RDM pretty much useless. Outside of Abyssea RDM can still reign supreme, but the last time I did something outside of Abyssea was...
Holy crap, I can't remember.
I don't even care if they alter the Cure V to cure slightly less and generate gobs of hate. I just want to have my cures at least be partially up to par. I hate playing on WHM.
5k + HP? wat? A lot of jobs are not as useful inside Abyssea, that is just how it is. You can't really give RDM a spell only for a single event... The game is also moving away from Abyssea as well where C4 is fine considering RDM are not suppose to be the primary healer in the game. Also @ the RDM melee discussion, its pretty decent on old content like salvage/bcnm/einherjar/dyna etc.
Asura.Eeek said: »
Cerberus.Rayik said: »
Asura.Eeek said: »
That civil war is only infernal because so many of the RDMs that post on the SE forums desperately want to melee and seem to have little idea how to gear and play RDM as a proper mage. I've never viewed FFXI's RDM as a magical swordsman, but I suppose that's because I started playing in 2006 and I tend to view jobs as they are - not as I want them to be. RDM is an outstanding generalist mage, and assuming Temper isn't limited to self-target, RDM is on its way to becoming an even stronger mage.
They might have a better idea of how to gear if some actual discussion could take place, instead of job-fascists shooting them down with "lol" and adding nothing to the conversation other than "I'm better at the job because I ignore a huge portion of it."
Instead of just making condescending remarks, how about we help look for positive means of making the melee play style better? It is an actual play style, and a part of the job, like it or not. Screaming down at people and forcing one's own play style isn't helpful.
Some RDM's want to use a sword, so let's work on ways we can make that viable? Where's the harm in that?
That's the thing: few people there even care about properly gearing a RDM for mage duties - they simply want to shoehorn RDM into a melee role without any regard for RDM's stellar mage capacities. People like Neisan are the exception and few and far between.
The problem with seeking ways to make meleeRDM viable all the time is simple - it's not viable all the time, and too few RDMs on that forum understand that. This misconception does a disservice to players (and SE employees) looking for actual information and worthwhile discussion about the job.
This is why I consider Neisan outside the norm:
1) Generally speaking, people working on Almace specifically for RDM tend to understand RDM's mage capabilities and own good gearsets for mage-centric play.
2) If a RDM can make a Level90 Almace, they generally can acquire the gear needed to make strong melee RDM gearsets.
3) People who build Almaces specifically for RDM generally understand when it's appropriate to melee and when it's appropriate to play as a pure mage.
I never said to melee all the time. Melee is just one facet of a generalist, hybrid job. No, it's not going to be viable 24/7, and yes, the RDM's who try to melee everything are idiots. It's the same reason a RDM doesn't nuke all the time, Heal all the time, etc. I love being a generalist, and want to play up the strength of being anything the party may happen to need at any time.
Pigeon-holing a generalist, multi-sided job into one role is doing it a huge disservice, and that is exactly what the majority of close-minded "mage-onry" RDM's are doing. I don't want to melee everything, but that instance that comes along where I can, I want to do it well.
Leviathan.Draylo said: »
5k + HP? wat? A lot of jobs are not as useful inside Abyssea, that is just how it is. You can't really give RDM a spell only for a single event... The game is also moving away from Abyssea as well where C4 is fine considering RDM are not suppose to be the primary healer in the game. Also @ the RDM melee discussion, its pretty decent on old content like salvage/bcnm/einherjar/dyna etc.
People keep saying this but adding, generously, 6 monsters to voidwatch is not "moving away from abyssea", making cop dyna like the other dyna zones now is not "moving away from abyssea"
thats still where the best gear and best nonrelic/mythic weapons and best xp for burning up new jobs/mules comes from and thats still where people will spend the majority of their time
I've got a 90 almace and some pretty nice melee gear for rdm but I rarely use it. Actually I rarely use rdm in general. Now my almace isn't solely for rdm, it's actually for blu.
Rdm can get vorpal but only if you sub something for it. It's always been a sore point for me that rdm which is a sword user based on description doesn't get most of the good ws.
Rdm can get vorpal but only if you sub something for it. It's always been a sore point for me that rdm which is a sword user based on description doesn't get most of the good ws.
[+]
I prefer using Rdm if I'm outside Abyssea for w/e reason, or doing old stuff like lamebus. Inside yeah it's fairly pointless for me since I have War/Whm/Blu leveled and decently geared (aside from elestaves inside since I have little interest in Blm and Blu can't use).
Bismarck.Magnuss said: »
Still no Cure V? Back in the closet you go, RDM. Man, I miss that job.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Neisan said: »
I prefer using Rdm if I'm outside Abyssea for w/e reason, or doing old stuff like lamebus. Inside yeah it's fairly pointless for me since I have War/Whm/Blu leveled and decently geared (aside from elestaves inside since I have little interest in Blm and Blu can't use).
On a side note, I can't help but feel like ele-staves were a major contributor to killing melee RDM in the public eye. They're just too good. I remember when I was lvling RDM initially, I could wield a sword in a party just fine until the moment I hit 51(same party, actually), then it was "staff or GTFO."
Joining the bandwagon here (and in before the "STOP WHINING ABOUT CURE V!" just hear me out)....
Where the hell is my Cure V for RDM. They can keep implementing JA for RDM but what they have done (in my opinion) hasn't made them any more desirable to the masses INSIDE of Abyssea. I mean, it's not like I REALLY want Cure V. What other choice does RDM have though? It seems like the only way they will be useful in Abyseea. Sure, they would become a glorified WHM but that'ed be the only way to work them in. (And trust me that's the last thing I want.) But at least we could play the job..
The biggest issue here though when it comes down to it is that SE needs to release an area that actually requires support jobs. (I'm talking RDM BRD COR. The support of the support.) Abyssea...yeah... It doesn't really need support jobs with the acception of BRD for procs. That's just me personally form what I have observed.
So when it comes down to it do I really want Cure V and make RDM another WHM? Not really. Do I feel its necessary to bring RDM back to even be playable? Yes, as sad as it is to say. I miss you RDM. =/
Where the hell is my Cure V for RDM. They can keep implementing JA for RDM but what they have done (in my opinion) hasn't made them any more desirable to the masses INSIDE of Abyssea. I mean, it's not like I REALLY want Cure V. What other choice does RDM have though? It seems like the only way they will be useful in Abyseea. Sure, they would become a glorified WHM but that'ed be the only way to work them in. (And trust me that's the last thing I want.) But at least we could play the job..
The biggest issue here though when it comes down to it is that SE needs to release an area that actually requires support jobs. (I'm talking RDM BRD COR. The support of the support.) Abyssea...yeah... It doesn't really need support jobs with the acception of BRD for procs. That's just me personally form what I have observed.
So when it comes down to it do I really want Cure V and make RDM another WHM? Not really. Do I feel its necessary to bring RDM back to even be playable? Yes, as sad as it is to say. I miss you RDM. =/
Cerberus.Rayik said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Neisan said: »
I prefer using Rdm if I'm outside Abyssea for w/e reason, or doing old stuff like lamebus. Inside yeah it's fairly pointless for me since I have War/Whm/Blu leveled and decently geared (aside from elestaves inside since I have little interest in Blm and Blu can't use).
On a side note, I can't help but feel like ele-staves were a major contributor to killing melee RDM in the public eye. They're just too good. I remember when I was lvling RDM initially, I could wield a sword in a party just fine until the moment I hit 51(same party, actually), then it was "staff or GTFO."
There's other things I can blame but it didn't bother me that much, I stopped meleeing around 41. I could try and be bitter about it but I really wasn't. If not meleeing was more of a benefit for my party than me meleeing I would put my swords away and do what was best for the party. Composure didn't exist yet when I was leveling so cycles were abit of a problem to meleeing as it was.
Bismarck.Dierdreh said: »
Joining the bandwagon here (and in before the "STOP WHINING ABOUT CURE V!" just hear me out)....
Where the hell is my Cure V for RDM. They can keep implementing JA for RDM but what they have done (in my opinion) hasn't made them any more desirable to the masses INSIDE of Abyssea. I mean, it's not like I REALLY want Cure V. What other choice does RDM have though? It seems like the only way they will be useful in Abyseea. Sure, they would become a glorified WHM but that'ed be the only way to work them in. (And trust me that's the last thing I want.) But at least we could play the job..
The biggest issue here though when it comes down to it is that SE needs to release an area that actually requires support jobs. (I'm talking RDM BRD COR. The support of the support.) Abyssea...yeah... It doesn't really need support jobs with the acception of BRD for procs. That's just me personally form what I have observed.
So when it comes down to it do I really want Cure V and make RDM another WHM? Not really. Do I feel its necessary to bring RDM back to even be playable? Yes, as sad as it is to say. I miss you RDM. =/
Where the hell is my Cure V for RDM. They can keep implementing JA for RDM but what they have done (in my opinion) hasn't made them any more desirable to the masses INSIDE of Abyssea. I mean, it's not like I REALLY want Cure V. What other choice does RDM have though? It seems like the only way they will be useful in Abyseea. Sure, they would become a glorified WHM but that'ed be the only way to work them in. (And trust me that's the last thing I want.) But at least we could play the job..
The biggest issue here though when it comes down to it is that SE needs to release an area that actually requires support jobs. (I'm talking RDM BRD COR. The support of the support.) Abyssea...yeah... It doesn't really need support jobs with the acception of BRD for procs. That's just me personally form what I have observed.
So when it comes down to it do I really want Cure V and make RDM another WHM? Not really. Do I feel its necessary to bring RDM back to even be playable? Yes, as sad as it is to say. I miss you RDM. =/
We'll still be useless because we can't main heal obviously. I probably still won't be using Rdm inside since we lowman stuff and simply have no place for it since I typically have to cover either red or grellow procs, but it would give awesome for outside. Would be nice on weaker Nms if duoing with a friend.
[+]
Cerberus.Rayik said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Neisan said: »
I prefer using Rdm if I'm outside Abyssea for w/e reason, or doing old stuff like lamebus. Inside yeah it's fairly pointless for me since I have War/Whm/Blu leveled and decently geared (aside from elestaves inside since I have little interest in Blm and Blu can't use).
On a side note, I can't help but feel like ele-staves were a major contributor to killing melee RDM in the public eye. They're just too good. I remember when I was lvling RDM initially, I could wield a sword in a party just fine until the moment I hit 51(same party, actually), then it was "staff or GTFO."
I'll be honest though, the sword didn't make my rdm skills any better. I was still learning the job, and if I was more focused on melee i was less focused on mage and that suffered. Granted this was waaay waaaay back in the day before i could afford anything so i had one set of crappy melee/mage gear hybrid.
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