DNC Merrits

If you say so, did you actually try meriting BF and testing it your self? because i certainly notice a difference.

Prove it, show me how gaining extra tp that i already get anyway increases my damage. or more in depth explain to me how 15 more tp is increasing my damage, i am always open to suggestions and comments.

It doesn't need to be tried out. Algorithms, etc.

You're awarded the same TP as someone with RF merits without RF merits? Do elaborate.

And stop saying, "because I get TP so quickly already".

That's what i thought.

I am waiting for you to elaborate on how 15 tp increases my damage.

So this is a classic case of "I don't care if the game runs on mathematical algorithms, my eyeballing disagrees with you". Thanks for saving me time discussing this with you.

I'm waiting for you to elaborate on how merits into a JA that decrease your total damage are beneficial.

Decrease my total damage? really? good luck with that. 15 tp decrease my total damage, ***, brb.

Yeah, have fun with this one everyone. I'm out.

:)

Case closed.

Last person I ever want to question is Byrth of all people, but I'm so adamantly against BF I have to have clarification on this.

My first question with doing this is what does your TP look like when you're executing those first two steps? Is it: sub 100 > step > tp to 110 > Presto step > etc?

Second question is does that boost in attack of that first BF outweigh losing not only 1 second due to JA delay but 10 tp as well? Basically seeing it as trading X amount of attack on a weapon skill for an entire attack round. Thinking back to your post on using FMs and TP efficiency this doesn't strike me as the better option. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

DNC forums are so angry today.

How does having more TP -not- increase your DPS lol?

There will somehow always be someone who defends Building Flourish merits in all of these threads.

lol, ilu

Does BF give you more damage on a single weapon skill vs not using BF: Yes

Does a merited BF give you more damage on a single weapon skill vs a non merited BF: Yes

Does a merited BF give you more damage than reversing those FMs towards another WS over time: No

Do I need to merit BF to understand this: No

So, generally I'll have just WSed. I do a Step, Building (it lasts for a minute), TP up and Presto->Step when the timers are back up, and then WS -> 2x rounds -> Reverse -> WS.

And yeah, the boost given by Building Flourish is only really worth it in the most extreme situations.

Alright, since you actually in a none-*** way i'll give you the reason, that is not to say i SPAM BF i use it during times when i wont be swinging, aka while im turned around to keep from feeding the mob tp, because let's face it, if you're in abyssea you're not attacking anyway due to waiting for some proc, outside it really differs on what you're doing, and since steps can land while not facing mob i pick that time the most. more often then not i often CF rudras or evis --- CF rudras to self sc sometimes sticking the building before the evis and NFR to RF to sc i don't just use it widly. example presto --> building then step and then i go from there.

Sigh i am not going to go in an endless, cycle with this. this isnt BG i don't want this to turn into some pointless drama starved argument.

You're not telling me wtf do i need to merit RF for 15 extra tp that will outweigh a ws packing more punch when i need it, in this case, RF merits to me are just as useless as the BF that you are arguing about. so i think the more important question is, why do i need to merit RF? unless i am missing something big with 15 tp

I have the most fun having reverse flourish merited to 5 so I can get and instant 100tp while wearing the emp hands +2. This means after a weaponskill I can use reverse flourish and another weaponskill is ready in time for a skillchain. The best combination is Evisceration > reverse flourish > Pyrrhic Kleos > Darkness.

Consider 5/5 No foot rise for the potential spare 100tp.

Whatever else you pick I think it is wise to consider saving atleast one level for Fan dance and Closed Position. Step accuracy pairs great with a 5/5 reverse flourish approach.

Some will say that haste samba is king, I think it is worth a few levels, it pairs great with closed position.

I didn't even mention RF merits in my last post...so you're the one not getting it.

EVEN WITHOUT RF MERITS, BF IS STILL LESS DAMAGE THAN REVERSING THOSE FMS TOWARDS ANOTHER WS.

Don't think I can be any clearer than that so I'll just give up there...

A-...a-are you trolling?

Some questions are better left unasked.

No, i probably just missread your post, don't get all mad..

But i think you missed my point as well....I can STILL reverse the tp i need to do an instant SC without waiting for tp from swings due to that small lag you get AFTER wsing or from TP return, the ONLY difference to this is if you have 0 tp and have not swinged at all and just reverse flourish, but even still..the moment i engage a mob i already am at 100% before i even have a chance to react. in other words......i can self SC exactly the same as IF i had it merited RF anyway. do you get it now? what's the problem.

even if i never use BF and only reverse nothing has changed. RF merits are still no use to me.

Damn, I am laughing at myself so hard right now because I can't leave this alone...

One more time:

1)This has nothing to do with RF merits

2)I again AGREE with you that you can achieve similar results w/o RF merits. Also see #1

3)BF itself is mostly (read 99.9%) useless. Reversing those FMs (see number 1 and 2 again at this point if you think it has anything to do with RF merits either way) towards another WS will give you more damage over time.

Ok, serious this time...if you don't understand at this point then I just don't care anymore.

You aren't the only one laughing, i just got done a while ago.

So what exactly are you "arguing" with me about?

Are BF merits useless? : No

Are they useless to you?: Yes

Are they useless to me?: No

Do you need RF merits?: No

Do you need BF merits?: No

I think i am the one who should have givin up already.


I think this is the part we got mixed on. You think BF merits are useless, that part i get, that is you.

So the circular argument(s) here seems to be:

Person a)I don't need 5/5 RF merits because the leftover tp from my ws or my 1 attack round will still put me at 100tp for self sc. So, I put the leftover merits into Building Flourish.

Person b) You don't need Building Flourish merits because you shouldn't use Building Flourish.

I believe going without RF merits will cost you the ability to clim->presto step->Rudra->attack, reverse(3)->Rudra (when NFR is down). But if you don't have Rudra you could still WS->reverse(5)->WS easily without RF merits.

--devil's advocate--
I haven't used building flourish since the days of "stop giving the mob TP with your gimp 1-10 dmg dagger swings" when I just ran in for a 'big' ws then ran away. But if I did use BF, and I didn't have Rudra, I'd maybe consider BF merits. As things are, tossing RF merits would go against one my argument for 5/5 NFR (building tp in downtime / prefight)

I personally have:

5/5 Haste Samba (Is there any other way?)
5/5 Reverse Flourish (I like 100 tp RF.)

1 Saber Dance (Excellent for DoT, even better if someone else is healing you.)
1 Fan Dance (Life saver.)
3 No Foot Rise (Usually only use it between fights, or if I miss a step.)
5 Closed Position (Great for solo/tanking.)

For those who say 5 in RF is overkill, consider this:
Let's say you get 13 tp from your ws. Then you use RF to get 100 tp on top of that. You can quickly perform a step before you ws and still complete you skillchain.
i.e.:
PK->RF->Box Step->Evis (Note I do not have Twastar.)

It is nice because there is significantly less wasted tp, and the ja delay is hidden inside the ws.