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WI Conservative SC Judge Assaults Female Judge
By Wenuden 2011-06-25 15:33:52
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: idk what their code of ethics are, so I can't answer based on that. Answering based on the law, that's still not illegal, so no.
If you're willing to provide me w/ that job position's code of ethics and/or show where its in violation of anything in it, my answer is subject to change.
It was in the linked article.
Chapter 60 states that judges are required to “uphold the integrity and independence of the judiciary” and “avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety” in all activities. And Chapter 62 requires judges and other court personnel to “be civil in their dealings with one another” and “abstain from any conduct that may be characterized as uncivil, abrasive, abusive, hostile or obstructive.”
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-25 15:35:07
Phoenix.Kirana said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: idk what their code of ethics are, so I can't answer based on that. Answering based on the law, that's still not illegal, so no.
If you're willing to provide me w/ that job position's code of ethics and/or show where its in violation of anything in it, my answer is subject to change. I'm basing my argument on personal opinions thus far (and asking others for your opinions), not on law and/or policies. In my personal opinion, she didn't break any laws, so I find no problem with it.
I feel if she violated a rule of her job or a code of ethics that she was subject to, then I would find a problem with it, hence the "my answer is subject to change"
As is now, she's done 0 wrong.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-25 15:38:00
Quote: “uphold the integrity and independence of the judiciary” Subjective
Quote: “avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety” Clear/subjective
Quote: “be civil in their dealings with one another” Subjective
Quote: “abstain from any conduct that may be characterized as uncivil, abrasive, abusive, hostile or obstructive.” Subjective
The only thing that is clear is don't cuss, basically. The rest is going to be opinionated based on what each person thinks is "civil, hostile, etc."
Bahamut.Ilvex
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By Bahamut.Ilvex 2011-06-25 15:39:17
so you think it's ok to hit a women if she goads you in to it?
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-25 15:40:36
Well, impropriety may be subjective as well.
Quote: an unacceptable use of a word or of language
Diff ppl will have diff views on what is "unacceptable"
There isn't rly anything in there that is clear.
For example
"Don't drive without your seat belt" is very clear.
"Don't drive improperly" is very subjective.
By Wenuden 2011-06-25 15:40:39
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: “uphold the integrity and independence of the judiciary” Subjective
Quote: “avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety” Clear/subjective
Quote: “be civil in their dealings with one another” Subjective
Quote: “abstain from any conduct that may be characterized as uncivil, abrasive, abusive, hostile or obstructive.” Subjective
The only thing that is clear is don't cuss, basically. The rest is going to be opinionated based on what each person thinks is "civil, hostile, etc."
If the allegations are true, these are all things that the Wisconsin Judicial Commission will have to decide during the course of their investigation.
Bahamut.Ilvex said: so you think it's ok to hit a women if she goads you in to it?
Who is this directed at?
Bahamut.Ilvex
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By Bahamut.Ilvex 2011-06-25 15:41:14
was @ Kirana
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-25 15:41:58
Bahamut.Ilvex said: so you think it's ok to hit a women if she goads you in to it? No, not at all. Where did you get that idea from?
I was saying why SHE shouldn't be removed with him. Someone was saying she should have been because she provoked him. I was talking about her being removed, not him. He broke a law. He should be removed.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-25 15:42:17
nvm
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2011-06-25 15:42:35
Bahamut.Ilvex said: so you think it's ok to hit a women if she goads you in to it? I don't think that is what is being said. I think Kiranas was trying to say they're both at fault.
Personally I disagree with that. Goading or not this is unacceptable behavior. For a supreme court justice to be so easily angered or manipulated is frightening. What if a plaintiff or a lawyer pisses him off and he chooses to side against them? This man doesn't seem to be in control of his emotions or actions therefore should not be in the position he is in.
By Wenuden 2011-06-25 15:42:49
Bahamut.Ilvex said: was @ Kirana
She answered this already.
Phoenix.Kirana said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: @.Kirana honestly I feel you are very wrong, there is nothing that I or anyone else can SAY that justifies physical violence, other action may justify it at times, defense of one self or others from bodily harm etc..
Calling you names, saying I slept with you brother, father, mother, dog, cat or any other "goading" technique does not justify some one assaulting you or anyone else.
You are blaming a victim, like saying that women wanted to get raped because of the way she was dressed, she was "asking" for it. You are twisting my words quite a bit. Never did I say that the violence is justified, I mentioned that I thought it should be punished and even pointed that out to you. What I said is that if the victim was ACTIVELY TRYING TO GET ATTACKED (likely with the intention of getting the attacker in trouble) then they are ALSO at fault (notice the very important word "also"). The attacker's actions are not "justified" and should be punished, but we should never ignore the other side of the case.
Quote: You are blaming a victim, like saying that women wanted to get raped because of the way she was dressed, she was "asking" for it. This is absolutely NOT what I am saying.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2011-06-25 15:44:33
@Kiranas you can say whatever you want to someone even if it has the intent to get someone to do something. He had a choice and he could have walked away but he did not. There is nothing that justifies choking someone for something they say.
Bahamut.Ilvex
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By Bahamut.Ilvex 2011-06-25 15:45:56
Phoenix.Kirana said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: idk what their code of ethics are, so I can't answer based on that. Answering based on the law, that's still not illegal, so no.
If you're willing to provide me w/ that job position's code of ethics and/or show where its in violation of anything in it, my answer is subject to change. I'm basing my argument on personal opinions thus far (and asking others for your opinions), not on law and/or policies.
I was simply asking Kirana's opinion if it's ok to hit somebody, not just a women, if they "goad" you into it, SO i was asking if it's okay, let's say for instance, that you mother was mouthing off to me and was trying to get me put in jail if i but her in a choke hold?
By Wenuden 2011-06-25 15:46:55
Lakshmi.Flavin said: @Kiranas you can say whatever you want to someone even if it has the intent to get someone to do something. He had a choice and he could have walked away but he did not. There is nothing that justifies choking someone for something they say.
Phoenix.Kirana said: Never did I say that the violence is justified
Am I the only person who can see this post?
Bahamut.Ilvex
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By Bahamut.Ilvex 2011-06-25 15:49:54
It's over shadowed by the blame the victim argument.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-25 15:50:36
Not at all. I saw it many times.
By Wenuden 2011-06-25 15:51:18
Bahamut.Ilvex said: let's say for instance, that you mother was mouthing off to me and was trying to get me put in jail if i but her in a choke hold?
There's a defense attorney somewhere that could win a case on it.
Bahamut.Ilvex said: It's over shadowed by the blame the victim argument.
It looks like the argument was hold the victim accountable for their part in the totality of the circumstances.
Bahamut.Ilvex
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By Bahamut.Ilvex 2011-06-25 15:56:10
SO I should go to jail and their mother should get a fine right?
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-25 15:57:39
Bahamut.Ilvex said: SO I should go to jail and their mother should get a fine right? He's basically saying
I work at Target.
I go out of my way to provoke a customer to punch me.
Should I be fired?
By Wenuden 2011-06-25 16:01:35
Bahamut.Ilvex said: SO I should go to jail and their mother should get a fine right?
You're talking legal aspect, I believe Kirana was speaking of sanctions from the ethics committee. As far as what would happen to the mother in your scenario, I doubt there is a system set up in law to punish her actions. It's not illegal to goad someone, and I don't believe anyone has argued that it is.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: SO I should go to jail and their mother should get a fine right? He's basically saying
I work at Target.
I go out of my way to provoke a customer to punch me.
Should I be fired?
Whether you should be or not would likely be irrelevant in your example. You'd probably be fired because they could easily fill your position the next day.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-06-25 19:52:41
Wenuden said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: SO I should go to jail and their mother should get a fine right?
You're talking legal aspect, I believe Kirana was speaking of sanctions from the ethics committee. As far as what would happen to the mother in your scenario, I doubt there is a system set up in law to punish her actions. It's not illegal to goad someone, and I don't believe anyone has argued that it is.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: SO I should go to jail and their mother should get a fine right? He's basically saying
I work at Target.
I go out of my way to provoke a customer to punch me.
Should I be fired?
Whether you should be or not would likely be irrelevant in your example. You'd probably be fired because they could easily fill your position the next day.
Very few of the companies I've worked for are willing to deal with employees that taunt and mess with their customers. You're likely to get warning if you get a customer complaint. If there is some form of proof you intentionally harassed a customer they'd probably press charges.
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By Ramuh.Thunderz 2011-06-25 20:27:27
lol This is politicsssssssssssssssssssssss
The girl was doing everything in her power to piss him off
Honestly anytime someone undermines your authority "EVEN" if it is justified should warrant the person getting fired
If anyone goes over me at work (Management not HR) and I later find out about it
Your totally fired
Anyways he fell for it and put his hand on her.... The lesson to this is be patient and wait for them to mess up and stab them in the back
Politics / Work is full of drama at times
If you vote conservative, this is what you are enabling. Wake up or don't be surprised when it is your turn. The only thing these people know how to do when they don't hear what they want is resort to violence.
Quote: Report: Prosser grabbed fellow court justice's neck during argument
Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice David Prosser allegedly grabbed fellow Justice Ann Walsh Bradley around the neck in an argument in her chambers last week, according to at least three knowledgeable sources.
(...)
Prosser acknowledged in March that he called Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson a "bitch" and threatened to "destroy" her during a closed-door meeting.
At the time, Prosser told the Journal Sentinel that the outburst to Abrahamson came after the chief justice took steps to undermine him politically and to embarrass him and other court conservatives.
"In the context of this, I said, 'You are a total bitch," Prosser said. "I probably overreacted, but I think it was entirely . . . warranted. They (Abrahamson and Bradley) are masters at deliberately goading people into perhaps incautious statements. This is bullying and abuse of very, very long standing."
(shorter Prosser: the bitch deserved it)
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