Paladin FAQ, Info, And Trade Studies.

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2010-06-21
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Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-03-29 02:18:36  
The new 119 Delve shield should handily beat Killedar before augments. Definitely a good investment if you don't want to make an Ochain
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 Ifrit.Showmo
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By Ifrit.Showmo 2014-03-29 06:41:50  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Target: Serac rabbits(woh gates)
Level 126.
The only skill+ gear would be on the shield itself, if present.
Code
Shield		Skill	block%	-dmg	totaldmg-
Ochain		432		70.23	-66%	-46.6%
Killedar	532		27.63	-86%	-23.7%
Beatific	504		36.72	-48%	-17.6%
Aegis		432		11.91	-81%	- 9.6%
Weathering	432		 6.18	-74%	- 4.5%

Sample sizes
Shield		hits
Ochain		4929
Killedar	3980
Beatific	3602
Aegis		4172
Weathering	1504
Lovely sample size! I just realized that the huge gap in shield skill and mob combat skill right now makes it easier to nail down that shield skill modifier, which looks to be 0.2145 from the data (likely 0.215). This can also vary if the mob isn't using an A+ skill rank obviously, but 0.215 seems like a pretty solid number.

I also couldn't help but notice that combat skill continues to increment at +7 past Lv.99? With a mob at Lv.126, that would put it at a combat skill of 613 if it had an A+ skill rank (going off the old +7 skill per level format).
So if we plug in the data for Aegis...
50% + (432 - 613) * 0.215
50% + (-181) * 0.215
50% + -38.915%
11.085%

Seems very close to Martel's parsed data, and it also looks to be that Ochain has a 110% base.

110% + -38.915 (from above step, substituting in Ochain's base) = 71.085%

Just some extra comparison data for the other shields Martel parsed:
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By aeronx 2014-03-30 18:53:12  
Anyone know if +enmity off of gear stacks with Reduces Enmity decrease when taking dmg effect from gear?

Because of the update to +enmity on gear now acting like Reduces Enmity decrease when taking dmg effect you can now create a set that reduces enmity loss by 100% CE wise if in fact they do stack and if in fact the ratio between 1enmity= 1% reduction in enmity loss.

you can still reach a healthy pdt of about 44pdt and get def. up to about 1350 with protect and cocoon. So with scherzo you shouldn't really have to worry about anything that i know of one hit killing you.

Anyone have any data on the amount of enmity loss reduction from dmg that the creed legs provide? If and when they 119 empyrean gear. There could be a set that allowed for 100%reduction in enmity loss and about 52pdt with capped haste.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-03-30 19:03:15  
We don't know if, or how they stack. Or if there's a cap. -100% CE loss would be pretty hax, though.

We still don't know how much +1 enmity is worth in CE loss reduction. Maybe it's 1 for 1, or it may go through some formula first.

CE loss testing is a ***. So it's pretty unlikely that we'll be finding out any time soon.

JPwiki says that:
Creed legs+2 are -10%
Creed collar is -5%
99 Burtgang is -20%.
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By aeronx 2014-03-30 19:17:49  
wow, that would mean based on the assumption that it is a 1:1 ratio that burtgang would give a 38% reduction in enmity loss.

Based on the numbers you just game me though martel there is a lot more play in the set that I came up with as far as getting more pdt/dt in the set.

Ill have to readjust it a little to maximize pdt.

If anyone could come up with a way to find out if the ratio is indeed 1enmity=1% reduction in enmity, id love to verify that because, it could really solve the CE issue and pld wouldn't really have to use /blu as much and because really if you can lock CE its all about maintain VE. which you can do basically with provoke and flash.
 Ragnarok.Dragish
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By Ragnarok.Dragish 2014-04-07 13:19:03  
Priwen Shield DEF:65 HP+30 Shield skill +112 Enhances "Reprisal" effect "Phalanx" damage reduction +2 Damage taken -6%

hmm.. think it'll put ochain away?

http://bg-wiki.com/bg/April_2014_Version_Update_Changes
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-07 13:37:31  
It's a size 3 shield, so no. It's good, but it still won't touch Ochain. Unless that Reprisal enhancement is an absolutely INSANE block rate+. And even then, dispel, reprisal dmg cap.. various limitations on reprisal vs just having a shield with uber block rate.
 Ragnarok.Dragish
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By Ragnarok.Dragish 2014-04-07 13:40:26  
oh! when i looked at it didn't have shield size listed.. thanks Martel
 Phoenix.Aeronx
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By Phoenix.Aeronx 2014-04-07 14:24:15  
anyone notice that all the non tank job JSE wpns have -10enmity on them. Seems like SE is finally trying to actively adjust battle strategies from the pld rng rng rng brd whm set up lol.

Its a welcome addition, though in terms of logical thinking I don't know how hitting a mob with a Gaxe would produce less enmity(hate) lol but hey if it changes up the current party dynamics in a good way who am I to judge lol.

As far as the new shield is concerned though could be used in situational circumstances, if the "enhances Reprisal effect" increase reprisals blk rate like adamas does. Will have to wait and see how exactly the shield affects reprisal.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-07 14:44:17  
I seem to be saying this a lot today, so I'll just quote my other post.
Martel said:
The only enhancement I ever found on Adamas was reprisal spikes DMG+. Which was extremely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, considering that could make reprisal wear faster.

But I admit, I never got satisfactory reprisal tests done. So it's possible it could have also had a block rate+ effect on reprisal. Reprisal testing just sucks so bad.... -.- But... hmmm,. I could automate it a lot better now, with gearswap.... mostly just need to get a way to decently parse reprisal up hits vs reprisal down hits. And then do PAINFUL amounts of testing.
To date, I have yet to see good testing on reprisal's potency. Much less any values for the assumed adamas enhancement.
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By Fafnir 2014-04-11 11:12:13  
Some information on Adamas, according to the Premium guides:
The status resistances effect is supposed to be +20%
The Reprisal effect only affects spikes damage, and this effect will not carry over if a different shield is equipped.

The shield actually seems great for a resistance build:

+20 (Adamas)
+10 (Relevant runes up as /RUN)
+20 (Pflug)
+5 (Elegant Ribbon)
+5 (Killer Shortbow)
+5 Hearty earring
+5 Moonshade resistance aug...though I doubt most of us would sacrifice the TP bonus earring.

For a maximum possible resistance of +70% when Pflug is up, potentially very useful.

Some exact values are listed here for various "Enhances resistance to all status effects" gear:
http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/27250.html
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By Pantafernando 2014-04-11 12:41:40  
Fafnir said: »
Some information on Adamas, according to the Premium guides:
The status resistances effect is supposed to be +20%
The Reprisal effect only affects spikes damage, and this effect will not carry over if a different shield is equipped.

The shield actually seems great for a resistance build:

+20 (Adamas)
+10 (Relevant runes up as /RUN)
+20 (Pflug)
+5 (Elegant Ribbon)
+5 (Killer Shortbow)
+5 Hearty earring
+5 Moonshade resistance aug...though I doubt most of us would sacrifice the TP bonus earring.

For a maximum possible resistance of +70% when Pflug is up, potentially very useful.

Some exact values are listed here for various "Enhances resistance to all status effects" gear:
http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/27250.html

Where can i find this guide to read? Is there a digital version?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-04-11 17:33:29  
So Priwen is +100% block rate during Reprisal (as well as +50% to reflect damage), makes it competitive but not better than Ochain I'd think (and based on what Martel has said about Reprisal's duration due to damage cap). Least it means I can comfortably gear PLD without having to spend the rest of my life getting colorless souls, though. Kinda funny how both of the enhancements that the shield imposes on Reprisal are almost specifically designed to make it last less time, shame they didn't have the shield also raise reprisal's damage cap a bit.
 Carbuncle.Legato
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-04-11 23:55:42  
Hmmm prothescar do you believe that you could utilize Priwen solely and tank say, AA VD HM,EV or GK?

Just curious to see if the shield is applicable for VD content.

Thank you in advance!
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2014-04-12 00:01:22  
I've done galka with aegis fulltime just to see how bad it would be, and it really wasn't terrible with fulltime reprisal. Ochain is far from a requirement as long as you're out of 1shot range. /blu helps a lot
 Carbuncle.Legato
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-04-12 00:29:30  
I see I see, well I will tell my friend to give it a try :)!

Looking at Martel's test on Lv 126 rabbits in Woh Gates seems like the hierarchy is -

Ochain (by a mile)
> Beatrific
> Killedar


Is Priwen or Rinda Shield above Beatrific +1?
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-12 00:40:31  
were you only looking at blockrate? the ranking for overall dmg reduction was:

Ochain
Killedar
Beatific

Based on their def/size/skill+ both rinda and priwen should be above killedar. So

Ochain
Priwen
Rinda
Killedar
Beatific

I don't have any actual tests on beatific +1, but going off the skill/def changes from NQ, it still shouldn't beat killedar.
 Carbuncle.Legato
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-04-12 00:47:16  
Yes. I was only looking for block rate the best thing for a friend of mine who is a casual player to utilize (he's casual but wants to come along to VD fights lol)

So if Priwen and or Rinda could help him main tank in Marj. Or VD AA's it will surely make him happy!

I don't know too much about PLD (not one myself) so I I was trying to get good gouge to relay to him, other than block rate what else is of major concern Martel?
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-12 01:15:34  
The dmg reduction on block is rather important as well. This would be the -dmg column in the test you referenced. Total dmg- is the combination of your block rate ad dmg-. if you block x dmg, x% or the time, then x. pretty much. It's useful for comparing shield with differing block rates and block dmg reductions.

For VD AA's, i think they could be done with any shield on that list, with the better ones making it easier/safer.

For marjami, I think he'll probably get dropped by static prison spam on the boss without aegis. <,< I'm not going to say it'd be impossible without Aegis, but it'd certainly be a lot more dangerous. Scherzo gets dispelled, splat. And he spaaaams static prison(which dispels) when aura is up.

My overall recommendation would be Priwen, if he can afford/access it.(because, presumably Aegis/Ochain are not being considered at this point)
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-04-12 01:18:00  
The trick to Marjami without an Aegis is tank-healer-support teamwork. Paralyna, Shell V, and cure need to happen near simultaneously after every Static Prison. If that can be managed, you shouldn't have any issues
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 Carbuncle.Legato
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-04-12 01:52:24  
Thank you very much for the great information!
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By voiceless 2014-04-12 02:25:49  
Aegis is way better for GK D and VD to block SC damage is more important then physical
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-04-12 02:28:37  
voiceless said: »
Aegis is way better for GK D and VD to block SC damage is more important then physical
... the skillchain damage is based the physical dmg. Reduce the physical dmg, reduce the SC dmg proportionately. If the WS hits you 0, the SC does 0 DMG.
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 Phoenix.Raistlinmaj
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By Phoenix.Raistlinmaj 2014-04-12 08:12:11  
So....why hasn't S/E given Aegis/Ochain any sort of iLvl 119 buff? They could say give Aegis some added shield skill/defense, and ochain some defense and/or -pdt buff, or palisade duration etc. As long as not too great a boost still wouldn't be broken. :(

*edit: oh now I see a seperate thread made for this topic,lol.
 Ragnarok.Jukiro
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By Ragnarok.Jukiro 2014-04-12 09:16:27  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
... the skillchain damage is based the physical dmg. Reduce the physical dmg, reduce the SC dmg proportionately. If the WS hits you 0, the SC does 0 DMG.

To add to this, PLD/NIN makes short work of his skillchains as you can interrupt parts of Meikyo Shisui with shadows as its coming. GK is one of the most predictable mobs in the game really
 Phoenix.Aeronx
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By Phoenix.Aeronx 2014-04-13 13:43:08  
anyone know if the Priwen can be used for good macro effect with phalanx?
 Phoenix.Aeronx
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By Phoenix.Aeronx 2014-04-13 15:34:44  
So did some testing with Priwen. I don't think the increase to reprisals block rate is 100% because I was still seeing unblocked attacks get through during the duration, although they were still doing 0dmg due to phalanx. Might be a case of were it caps at 100% on certain mobs and decreases as mob lvl increases was testing on mandies outside adoulin.

Interesting thing to note though I was noticing a 100% block rate with palisade.

The increase to reprisals dmg really has no effect on the duration due to the fact that the dmg cap on reprisal should be around 1000dmg in a pdt set and you could technically get it up to like 1250 if you used a HP set to increase the cap.

I was playing around with the sets and you can really use this shield to good effect in a bdt set. Its possible to cap bdt 50%1/pdt(soft 50%)/mdt(soft 50%)/haste with this shield. The hit that you would take from using this as opposed to ochain seems to be acceptable in my opinion considering its relatively easy to make over ochain.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-04-13 15:40:18  
it doesn't mean that it raises block rate to 100%, it means that it raises block rate by 100%. i.e., it doubles block rate
 Phoenix.Aeronx
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By Phoenix.Aeronx 2014-04-13 15:56:38  
Looking at some martel block rate data it doesn't make sense that its a +100% block rate because even the beatific shield had like a 56% block rate and Perwin is better then that in just eye balling it. Which would mean that if it was just a +100% increase that it would raise Perwin's block rate during reprisal to 100% but the fact that it doesn't means that its suspect.

the fact that I was using lower lvl mobs also then martel was using to determine his block rates means that it should have definitely reached 100%. It seems more likely that there is a block rate cap that Perwin is reaching during reprisal.
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