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DRK Suggestions:we're in ur game balancin ur dudes
Bahamut.Zorander
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2104
By Bahamut.Zorander 2011-06-14 15:41:58
Ok so I didnt read the whole thread..but imma steal it for a few.
I've been thinking about doing Caladblog..is it worth it? Am I wasting my time? I know ppl are gunna tell me to do Ukon and I will but with the last resort update I'd imagine drk is pretty sweet now. (can you tell how much I play drk?!)
How does Caladblog hold up in/out of abyssea..I know the info is out there some where but I was just curious.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2011-06-14 15:42:32
Cala, Cala, Cala, Cala, Apoc
Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-06-14 15:43:41
Caladbolg >>> Liberator >>> Redemption >>> Ragnarok (Rag beats Caladbolg in some situations and definatley shits all over Apoc)
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-06-14 15:44:24
Gold Algol!
Ish le pimp.
Ragnarok.Ashman
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-06-14 15:44:26
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: BorealisV2 said: Great Sword > Scythe. Deal with it. Sometimes.... if have caladbolg...all the time
You could make redemption for the 29.9% of the time that last resort is down on the ...... 5% of enemies you could maybe ever possibly encounter who the %defense down would be relevant for (while last resort was down ofc).
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-06-14 15:46:04
Odin.Sheelay said: BorealisV2 said: Deal with it.
lol I feel this is an appropriate time for...
[+]
Phoenix.Fondue
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2713
By Phoenix.Fondue 2011-06-14 15:54:56
liberator is better than apoc?
Ragnarok.Beef
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 342
By Ragnarok.Beef 2011-06-14 15:55:02
if drk gets crit guillotine, isn't there a high chance that they could 1 shot themselves using souleater?
doing 4k,5k raging rush with only 3 hits on warrior. i can't imagine what guillotine would do or insurgency souleater'd.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2011-06-14 15:56:41
Ragnarok.Beef said: if drk gets crit guillotine, isn't there a high chance that they could 1 shot themselves using souleater?
doing 4k,5k raging rush with only 3 hits on warrior. i can't imagine what guillotine would do or insurgency souleater'd.
Stalwart Soul says hi
And please, if you have to turn a WS to crit, let it not be Guillo. Been using it since lvl 60, come on!!!
Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-06-14 15:57:26
Phoenix.Fondue said: liberator is better than apoc?
It parsed on par with Apoc at 75 without capped haste, now that you can rock capped haste, it definatley shits all over Apoc. I know Kirschy prefers hers over Apoc now the last I spoke with her.
Bismarck.Hsieh
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 709
By Bismarck.Hsieh 2011-06-14 16:01:20
Fenrir.Gradd said: Phoenix.Fondue said: liberator is better than apoc?
It parsed on par with Apoc at 75 without capped haste, now that you can rock capped haste, it definatley shits all over Apoc. I know Kirschy prefers hers over Apoc now the last I spoke with her. I thought you had a lvl 90 apoc.
Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-06-14 16:03:23
Bismarck.Hsieh said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Phoenix.Fondue said: liberator is better than apoc?
It parsed on par with Apoc at 75 without capped haste, now that you can rock capped haste, it definatley shits all over Apoc. I know Kirschy prefers hers over Apoc now the last I spoke with her. I thought you had a lvl 90 apoc.
My Alt does, Mankey sup.
Edit:
I'm fully gearing 2 different DRK accounts, call me crazy I love the job :P
Phoenix.Uzugami
By Phoenix.Uzugami 2011-06-14 16:16:17
Fenrir.Gradd said: Bismarck.Hsieh said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Phoenix.Fondue said: liberator is better than apoc?
It parsed on par with Apoc at 75 without capped haste, now that you can rock capped haste, it definatley shits all over Apoc. I know Kirschy prefers hers over Apoc now the last I spoke with her. I thought you had a lvl 90 apoc.
My Alt does, Mankey sup.
Edit:
I'm fully gearing 2 different DRK accounts, call me crazy I love the job :P
I think you're stupid!
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-06-14 16:21:40
Fenrir.Gradd said: Bismarck.Hsieh said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Phoenix.Fondue said: liberator is better than apoc? It parsed on par with Apoc at 75 without capped haste, now that you can rock capped haste, it definatley shits all over Apoc. I know Kirschy prefers hers over Apoc now the last I spoke with her. I thought you had a lvl 90 apoc. My Alt does, Mankey sup. Edit: I'm fully gearing 2 different DRK accounts, call me crazy I love the job :P
What's the point of that o_O?
Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-06-14 16:25:15
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Bismarck.Hsieh said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Phoenix.Fondue said: liberator is better than apoc? It parsed on par with Apoc at 75 without capped haste, now that you can rock capped haste, it definatley shits all over Apoc. I know Kirschy prefers hers over Apoc now the last I spoke with her. I thought you had a lvl 90 apoc. My Alt does, Mankey sup. Edit: I'm fully gearing 2 different DRK accounts, call me crazy I love the job :P
What's the point of that o_O?
Friend Semi-quit gave me his account to use, its not hard to get gear anyways so might as well? lol
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-06-14 16:28:53
Fenrir.Gradd said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Bismarck.Hsieh said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Phoenix.Fondue said: liberator is better than apoc? It parsed on par with Apoc at 75 without capped haste, now that you can rock capped haste, it definatley shits all over Apoc. I know Kirschy prefers hers over Apoc now the last I spoke with her. I thought you had a lvl 90 apoc. My Alt does, Mankey sup. Edit: I'm fully gearing 2 different DRK accounts, call me crazy I love the job :P
What's the point of that o_O?
Friend Semi-quit gave me his account to use, its not hard to get gear anyways so might as well? lol
Mankey quit?! ;_; no wonder why I haven't heard from him in awhile.
Fenrir.Gradd
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-06-14 16:40:25
Bahamut.Serj said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Bismarck.Hsieh said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Phoenix.Fondue said: liberator is better than apoc? It parsed on par with Apoc at 75 without capped haste, now that you can rock capped haste, it definatley shits all over Apoc. I know Kirschy prefers hers over Apoc now the last I spoke with her. I thought you had a lvl 90 apoc. My Alt does, Mankey sup. Edit: I'm fully gearing 2 different DRK accounts, call me crazy I love the job :P
What's the point of that o_O?
Friend Semi-quit gave me his account to use, its not hard to get gear anyways so might as well? lol
Mankey quit?! ;_; no wonder why I haven't heard from him in awhile.
Hes been super busy w/ work so doesnt play much at all anymore if any :(
Fenrir.Mankey
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1323
By Fenrir.Mankey 2011-06-14 16:52:10
Yall should listen to Gradd about DRK >.> He knows what hes talking about and Apoc is by far the worse "relic/mythic/emp" DRK can use atm. I personally think Rag will be #1 come 99.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-06-14 18:36:43
Apoc is great for survivability with a 5-hit /SAM or a 6-hit /NIN, but that's it... and with how little can easily kill you these days aside from 1shots, that's not an especially compelling point right now. Maybe useful for Voidwatch, dunno, haven't bothered with it yet.
Bahamut.Zorander said: Ok so I didnt read the whole thread..but imma steal it for a few.
I've been thinking about doing Caladblog..is it worth it? Am I wasting my time? I know ppl are gunna tell me to do Ukon and I will but with the last resort update I'd imagine drk is pretty sweet now. (can you tell how much I play drk?!)
How does Caladblog hold up in/out of abyssea..I know the info is out there some where but I was just curious. It really depends. Marches and fulltime Hasso benefit other 2handers moreso than DRK now, but by the same token 15-25% more haste in situations where you're without a BRD is pretty *** crazy and you lose less from sacrificing /SAM Store TP due to a higher x-hit. If you can ride Souleater for full duration, better still.
I don't see it outparsing WAR/MNK/DRG/NIN in Abyssea. You might give my Kannagi a run for its money vs high-level Heroes NMs if you can /SAM and ride Hasso when LR is down. However, if you can do that I can ride Innin and still have a decent lead.
Outside Abyssea I could see it giving Ukon and Masa a run for their money in high buff situations. WAR v DRK would depend on how well the WAR can take advantage of Retaliation.
Necro Bump Detected!
[115 days between previous and next post]
Phoenix.Gamm
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2
By Phoenix.Gamm 2011-10-07 15:21:32
don't know if i agree at all with this thread.
For 1 i use Scythe and put out good numbers, not HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE but A-.
Im using Absolution +3 and i stack a ***load of double attack with my Guillotine average anywhere from 1.4-2.9. ive hit a 3245 this is all outside of abyss
Cerberus.Taint
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2011-10-10 12:57:13
don't know if i agree at all with this thread. For 1 i use Scythe and put out good numbers, not HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE but A-. Im using Absolution +3 and i stack a ***load of double attack with my Guillotine average anywhere from 1.4-2.9. ive hit a 3245 this is all outside of abyss
Nice Necro but yeah most of this tread is poorly mathed out. Esp for 95.
Apoc,Rag,Lib are DRKs top weapons now. All situationally better then the other. If you had to pick one weapon for DRK you'd be a fool not to pick Apoc.
Ragnarok.Daffel
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 476
By Ragnarok.Daffel 2011-10-11 12:56:07
This thread is the reason im leveling DRK :D
I'm making this thread to hopefully convince more people to contact SE with suggestions for DRK. If they get a lot of e-mails regarding this one issue in a short period of time, it should at least grab their attention.
Below is what I wrote to them concerning the job. You can discuss, like, hate, be indifferent, or whatever. Please do try to keep it constructive though, and give ideas of your own. Most importantly, send those suggestions forward to SE! I know most of you probably think it's a waste of time, but I think enough feedback would definitely make them think about the job.
Here's the link to contact SE:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1
Here are my suggestions:
Quote: I suspect that this is a popular issue at the moment, and with good reason. Currently, the Dark Knight job is in desperate need of something to set it apart and define its role.
I believe the overall expectation of the job from the community is a melee damage dealer whose specialty (what it does better than any other job) is spike damage while also holding a few unique magic tricks up its sleeve. As it stands now, however, Dark Knights have fallen far behind in damage (especially spike damage) and its casting abilities are on the verge of being obsolete.
To fix this problem properly and maintain the utmost integrity with respect to the job's position in both game mechanics and lore, I would like to propose a few routes that the job could take to fall into its own niche and reestablish balance among jobs. I will do this not with the intention of having specific abilities and traits added, but simply by extending to you certain possible paths that would match the feelings and expectations associated with the job. Ideas from these paths may be extensively altered, combined, and picked apart but I believe the game's balance would benefit greatly by defining the Dark Knight along the following lines:
PATH 1: TERROR
In terms of lore, Dark Knight is a job that is expected to impose fear. In terms of game mechanics, the Dark Knight's most demanded specialty is the ability to Stun enemies. While this is a legitimate and proper role, the only method available to Dark Knight to accomplish this role is the spell, Stun. Not only is this spell not unique to Dark Knight, it is also available from sub jobs. In addition, Dark Knight does not excel at stunning, a stun from a Dark Knight is no better than any other stun. Weapon Bash, with its 5:00 recast is not noteworthy in this scheme.
What I propose, as an individual who has been a FFXI subscriber for the better part of 7 years, is that this becomes the primary role of the Dark Knight. To do this, it is important to remember that a particular role must be filled throughout the duration of a task and abilities and spells should be carefully examined with regard to recast timers. A job ability (Fear), could be used on a target to occasionally inflict the Terror status upon it. This ability could be a 3:00 recast with a 1:00 duration, and the chance of the target being Terrorized could be based on any number of appropriate dynamics. Again, though, it is important to realize that this would be a staple ability of the job, and should be effective enough to give Dark Knights a unique and demanded role in most situations. Perhaps the effectiveness of this ability could be checked against the player's attack, or the amount of overall damage being done to an enemy within a given time. A Dark Knight might use this ability in preparation for a round of elemental spells by the group's mages, and provide an effective and moderately long-lasting halt on the monster's activity to maintain control of the fight.
This route would also benefit from any spell or combination of spells that deal with stopping the monster in its tracks. The single spell, Stun, is not quite enough.
PATH 2: BIG NUMBERS
Most people play Dark Knight expecting to deal large amounts of damage. In contrast to jobs like Monk, which deal huge amounts of damage over time, Dark Knights have been supposed to put out huge amounts of spike damage. There are a few nuances, of which I'm sure the development team is already aware of, that are keeping Dark Knights from realizing this role and I won't go into those. What I will address, however, is what seems to be the most overlooked and blatantly broken ability in the game; Souleater. This is obviously the Dark Knight's defining ability, but it is plainly impractical to utilize within the game's mechanics. Perhaps an ability like the one proposed above (Fear) might allow the player to use Souleater while keeping the monster Terrorized throughout the majority of its allotted activity. Another thing to consider would be a simple job trait (again, working on the lore of an imposing and feared Dark Knight) that reduces the enemies desire (or enmity) towards the Dark Knight either overall, or when the player inflicts large amounts of damage. Maybe this trait could activate when the Dark Knight deals a large amount of damage in a short amount of time, and cause the enemy to lose all enmity on the Dark Knight.
PATH 3: WORTHWHILE MELEE
It seems very wrong that the Dark Knight job can not be considered a serious melee threat. That jobs like Ninja or even Dancer can be considered more capable of melee damage is extremely unfair to Dark Knights and entirely unbalanced. There are so many opportunities to fix this that it seems like a waste of time to offer suggestions, but one problem that is very apparent most players is the inadequacy of the Last Resort ability. This ability should be at least on par with the Warrior ability Berserk, and offer Dark Knight's a longer buff than what it currently allows. The downtime on Last Resort (recast - duration) should be *much* shorter, and a duration of 1:30 or 2:00 seems a lot more reasonable than what it currently is.
These are simply ideas extended to you in an attempt to aid the process of moving the Dark Knight job into an effective and unique role within the game. These ideas come from the community's understanding of the game and the roles of various jobs within it. My hope is that this might provide direction, or simply spark other ideas that would allow Dark Knights to fill one of these roles.
e: For clarity, I am not proposing an ability that would keep the mob Terrorized for a minute. As a whole, I'm not even strictly proposing abilities or spells at all. The idea is to define DRK's role.
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