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DRK Suggestions:we're in ur game balancin ur dudes
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Bahamut.Jetackuu
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-01-10 00:44:49
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Bismarck.Selzak said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
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Oddly, I agree. This is just kind of stupid QQ and no real viable solution, nor an accurate description of the Dark Knight job as it really is.
I really don't get that. If you think my ideas wouldn't work then that's fine, but to say I'm whining and/or stupid is a little simple on both of your parts.
loldrk
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 00:46:22
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Bismarck.Selzak said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
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Oddly, I agree. This is just kind of stupid QQ and no real viable solution, nor an accurate description of the Dark Knight job as it really is.
I really don't get that. If you think my ideas wouldn't work then that's fine, but to say I'm whining and/or stupid is a little simple on both of your parts.
Great, now everybody knows, ***!
Cerberus.Deadmaus
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Cerberus.Deadmaus 2011-01-10 00:52:06
Shiva.Ravager said: Make Insurgency crit, problem solved. I never cared for rating up or down someone's comment.. but god did you hit the jackpot.
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Ragnarok.Ashman
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-01-10 00:53:16
Sorry if this comes out HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE but I'm on my phone: DRK is far from my best DD job. As main drg since NA release I leveled DRK to better use homam gear and to fit serf situations. That being said with the advent of abyssea I am DRK every day. With the vast amount of !! I can proc (especially since I have a penchant for WSNM), it fills a very valuable role. Also with apocalypse atma and alpha/omega I can easily hit the upper echelons of the parse. As soon as red !! is landed I slip on last resort/desperate blows and go to town. I easily hit 999 attack with endark and rip out insurgency and guillotine back to back to back. Would I do more damage as DRG? Easily. Would I be more of an asset coming as my favorite job? Not by a long shot. For what its worth this DRK is happy with the tools I have at ky disposal.
Ragnarok.Ashman
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-01-10 00:56:27
PS if SE wants to bump the ***out of this job I'll be happy too :D
Cerberus.Deadmaus
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Cerberus.Deadmaus 2011-01-10 01:01:20
In my situation, having as many jobs as I do, I play drk out of pure enjoyment. I see all these threads on "how I suck at this job so everyone else must be the same" or "LOL LETS TRY OUT SMN/MNK?!?!" and it saddens me. 7-8 years into this game and you can't find a way to enjoy it? Atmas has changed the playstyle of a lot of jobs. Even lolnuking on drk isn't as bad as before, especially considering twilight scythe procs a lot more with INT/MAB atmas why not have some more ----------------FUN----------------.
TBH, that insurgency comment was the best ***this thread had to offer. Now, if it takes me to submit some sort of email or something to get that ***moving.. jesus count me in. Being able to crit on insurgency would definitely start selling tickets to the next bandwagon.
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サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 01:09:33
They could just give DRK Raging rush if that's all it takes.
Cerberus.Deadmaus
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Cerberus.Deadmaus 2011-01-10 01:17:39
Odin.Zicdeh said: They could just give DRK Raging rush if that's all it takes. So people can play DRK as a paper WAR? I like jobs being unique with their own WS or there's no point in leveling it.
Ragnarok.Ashman
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-01-10 01:19:03
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Ragnarok.Ashman said: Sorry if this comes out HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE but I'm on my phone: DRK is far from my best DD job.
Good you leveled something worthwhile then!
Ragnarok.Ashman said: I leveled DRK to better use homam gear and to fit serf situations.
Lol I bet a serf could out DD a DRK for his lord as long as he could make use of a crit WS. lol phone autocorrected zerg to serf and I didn't catch it. I'm sorry that you skimmed past the good points in an effort to keep trolling though :l
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サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 01:20:41
Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Odin.Zicdeh said: They could just give DRK Raging rush if that's all it takes. So people can play DRK as a paper WAR? I like jobs being unique with their own WS or there's no point in leveling it.
How is making Insurgency a critical WS any different? There would be no difference except aesthetically.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 01:26:41
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
How does it feel to be even worse than lolpup in the hierarchy of DDs?
Bismarck.Helel
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1335
By Bismarck.Helel 2011-01-10 01:45:19
Unless they announce another mini-expansion, the next few updates will be outside Abyssea where DRK is a decent DD. I don't see what the problem is. Lack of patience?
Cerberus.Deadmaus
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Cerberus.Deadmaus 2011-01-10 01:48:37
Odin.Zicdeh said: Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Odin.Zicdeh said: They could just give DRK Raging rush if that's all it takes. So people can play DRK as a paper WAR? I like jobs being unique with their own ws or there's no point in leveling it.
How is making Insurgency a critical WS any different? There would be no difference except aesthetically. Can always tell from those who actually read and those who just skim. . .
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 01:50:37
Bismarck.Helel said: Unless they announce another mini-expansion, the next few updates will be outside Abyssea where DRK is a decent DD. I don't see what the problem is. Lack of patience?
Yeah, it's not as severe as most people (myself included) Make it out to be.
DRK is still quite powerful outside of Abyssea, that's why I don't suggest things like "Give us crit ws dawg" or "i want perma +88% haste". I just have an overall problem with the direction (or, actually lack of direction) the job has right now. It sort of just sits where it is, where other jobs have evolved a little.
Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Odin.Zicdeh said: They could just give DRK Raging rush if that's all it takes. So people can play DRK as a paper WAR? I like jobs being unique with their own ws or there's no point in leveling it.
How is making Insurgency a critical WS any different? There would be no difference except aesthetically. Can always tell from those who actually read and those who just skim. . .
I must be a little slow then. Explain to me how Insurgency is different than Raging Rush, Rampage, Victory Smite and other Critical WS's except in the aesthetic delivery of the weapon skill? Unless I'm partially blind, you're saying you don't want DRK to be played like Warrior, yet you're advocating giving them what amounts to a re-skinned Raging Rush.
Cerberus.Deadmaus
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Cerberus.Deadmaus 2011-01-10 01:57:23
Odin.Zicdeh said: Bismarck.Helel said: Unless they announce another mini-expansion, the next few updates will be outside Abyssea where DRK is a decent DD. I don't see what the problem is. Lack of patience?
Yeah, it's not as severe as most people (myself included) Make it out to be.
DRK is still quite powerful outside of Abyssea, that's why I don't suggest things like "Give us crit ws dawg" or "i want perma +88% haste". I just have an overall problem with the direction (or, actually lack of direction) the job has right now. It sort of just sits where it is, where other jobs have evolved a little.
Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Odin.Zicdeh said: They could just give DRK Raging rush if that's all it takes. So people can play DRK as a paper WAR? I like jobs being unique with their own ws or there's no point in leveling it.
How is making Insurgency a critical WS any different? There would be no difference except aesthetically. Can always tell from those who actually read and those who just skim. . .
I must be a little slow then. Explain to me how Insurgency is different than Raging Rush, Rampage, Victory Smite and other Critical WS's except in the aesthetic delivery of the weapon skill? Unless I'm partially blind, you're saying you don't want DRK to be played like Warrior, yet you're advocating giving them what amounts to a re-skinned Raging Rush. Of course it's aesthetics. That's all this game is. Why do you think people almost fainted when they saw you could finally use relic ws' without changing .dats. Now this argument is just slowly folding to benefit your side of the argument.
Touche though, even though that's expected from a good troll.
I might as well just use Rampage on all my 3 axe jobs too, huh, since you know it's just for looks so why bother.?
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 02:06:37
Why is it whenever someone has a good point, they're a troll.
Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I like Dark Knight because it's not just a Warrior with spikey black armor, it feels genuinely different, from subtle things like TP rate, to it's ability to literally save lives with stun (Tyrant Tusk anyone?!). Enfeebles, Drains, Endark, and even assisted suicides with Dread Spikes. The job has so much more to offer than just "Have big sword, hit target good".
Cerberus.Deadmaus
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Cerberus.Deadmaus 2011-01-10 02:17:29
What good point bro? Clearly you havent been using Raging Rush for 7 years to understanf -my- point. Like beating a dead horse. No point in arguing with someone who has to leave their piss stain in every thread that's up on FFXIAH.
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サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 02:21:54
Cerberus.Deadmaus said: What good point bro? Clearly you havent been using Raging Rush for 7 years to understanf -my- point. Like beating a dead horse. No point in arguing with someone who has to leave their piss stain in every thread that's up on FFXIAH.
You clearly mad.
Cerberus.Deadmaus
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Cerberus.Deadmaus 2011-01-10 02:25:35
Yeah, I'm very mad. Wish I had only 5 jobs to care about.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 02:36:24
Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Yeah, I'm very mad. Wish I had only 5 jobs to care about.
Uh oh, shits gettin fierce, u chekin my page and callin out mah jobs.
Also, you obviously don't care about Warrior, or you wouldn't be using a Vermeil Bhuj still. C WUT I DID THAR?!
And it's 7 jobs, I've been gearing Corsair and Summoner just a little better before I take them to 90 in 45minutes.
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By Artemicion 2011-01-10 02:38:05
DRK is fun.
That's good enough for me.
Cerberus.Deadmaus
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Cerberus.Deadmaus 2011-01-10 02:48:53
Odin.Zicdeh said: Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Yeah, I'm very mad. Wish I had only 5 jobs to care about.
Uh oh, shits gettin fierce, u chekin my page and callin out mah jobs.
Also, you obviously don't care about Warrior, or you wouldn't be using a Vermeil Bhuj still. C WUT I DID THAR?!
And it's 7 jobs, I've been gearing Corsair and Summoner just a little better before I take them to 90 in 45minutes. Wait so.. who's mad?
Turning childish and idiotic that's for sure.
Think I care about my vermeil? Let me go kill Alfard this week, just for you. Still doesn't change the subject of giving DRK raging rush. Calling out your jobs was actually relevant considering you don't have RR.
Once again, why do I bother.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 02:52:16
See what I did there: I looked at your player profile screen and called out arbitrary *** just like you did. My point was to show you how stupid it is, you obviously got the point, but missed the reference to yourself. So Bravo.
Enjoy your Widomaker, it rocks. No, Really it does.
I've played Warriors on other accounts before, didn't care for it. The only other job besides the ones I have 80+ that I've enjoyed was dancer, but I'm not secure enough in my sexuality to play that.
And you bother, because people are naturally stubborn.
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Fenrir.Tool
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3848
By Fenrir.Tool 2011-01-10 02:56:51
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Yeah, I'm very mad. Wish I had only 5 jobs to care about.
Have you ever been called a tool before?
I have :(
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-01-10 03:00:57
Cerberus.Deadmaus said: Yeah, I'm very mad. Wish I had only 5 jobs to care about.
>he still thinks the amount of jobs someone has matters
By Alryc 2011-01-10 03:11:13
I'm wondering why so many drks out there complain about being "left behind." My scythe skill isn't even capped yet I have no problem keeping up or outdamaging other jobs.
RR gave a boost to any job that has a crit ws but that doesn't change the fact that drk still hits hard as hell with Guillotine and the right atmas. Not to mention critting for 500+ on regular swings. Maybe it's not the top of the top for spike damage any more, but the job is more fun to play now than it has ever been.
Don't be mad just cuz other jobs can do big damage too. It happens.
Also, if you like the job you'll keep playing it despite the fact that others can keep up with you.
If however, it drives you to not play drk then you probably shouldn't be on it to begin with.
I'm making this thread to hopefully convince more people to contact SE with suggestions for DRK. If they get a lot of e-mails regarding this one issue in a short period of time, it should at least grab their attention.
Below is what I wrote to them concerning the job. You can discuss, like, hate, be indifferent, or whatever. Please do try to keep it constructive though, and give ideas of your own. Most importantly, send those suggestions forward to SE! I know most of you probably think it's a waste of time, but I think enough feedback would definitely make them think about the job.
Here's the link to contact SE:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1
Here are my suggestions:
Quote: I suspect that this is a popular issue at the moment, and with good reason. Currently, the Dark Knight job is in desperate need of something to set it apart and define its role.
I believe the overall expectation of the job from the community is a melee damage dealer whose specialty (what it does better than any other job) is spike damage while also holding a few unique magic tricks up its sleeve. As it stands now, however, Dark Knights have fallen far behind in damage (especially spike damage) and its casting abilities are on the verge of being obsolete.
To fix this problem properly and maintain the utmost integrity with respect to the job's position in both game mechanics and lore, I would like to propose a few routes that the job could take to fall into its own niche and reestablish balance among jobs. I will do this not with the intention of having specific abilities and traits added, but simply by extending to you certain possible paths that would match the feelings and expectations associated with the job. Ideas from these paths may be extensively altered, combined, and picked apart but I believe the game's balance would benefit greatly by defining the Dark Knight along the following lines:
PATH 1: TERROR
In terms of lore, Dark Knight is a job that is expected to impose fear. In terms of game mechanics, the Dark Knight's most demanded specialty is the ability to Stun enemies. While this is a legitimate and proper role, the only method available to Dark Knight to accomplish this role is the spell, Stun. Not only is this spell not unique to Dark Knight, it is also available from sub jobs. In addition, Dark Knight does not excel at stunning, a stun from a Dark Knight is no better than any other stun. Weapon Bash, with its 5:00 recast is not noteworthy in this scheme.
What I propose, as an individual who has been a FFXI subscriber for the better part of 7 years, is that this becomes the primary role of the Dark Knight. To do this, it is important to remember that a particular role must be filled throughout the duration of a task and abilities and spells should be carefully examined with regard to recast timers. A job ability (Fear), could be used on a target to occasionally inflict the Terror status upon it. This ability could be a 3:00 recast with a 1:00 duration, and the chance of the target being Terrorized could be based on any number of appropriate dynamics. Again, though, it is important to realize that this would be a staple ability of the job, and should be effective enough to give Dark Knights a unique and demanded role in most situations. Perhaps the effectiveness of this ability could be checked against the player's attack, or the amount of overall damage being done to an enemy within a given time. A Dark Knight might use this ability in preparation for a round of elemental spells by the group's mages, and provide an effective and moderately long-lasting halt on the monster's activity to maintain control of the fight.
This route would also benefit from any spell or combination of spells that deal with stopping the monster in its tracks. The single spell, Stun, is not quite enough.
PATH 2: BIG NUMBERS
Most people play Dark Knight expecting to deal large amounts of damage. In contrast to jobs like Monk, which deal huge amounts of damage over time, Dark Knights have been supposed to put out huge amounts of spike damage. There are a few nuances, of which I'm sure the development team is already aware of, that are keeping Dark Knights from realizing this role and I won't go into those. What I will address, however, is what seems to be the most overlooked and blatantly broken ability in the game; Souleater. This is obviously the Dark Knight's defining ability, but it is plainly impractical to utilize within the game's mechanics. Perhaps an ability like the one proposed above (Fear) might allow the player to use Souleater while keeping the monster Terrorized throughout the majority of its allotted activity. Another thing to consider would be a simple job trait (again, working on the lore of an imposing and feared Dark Knight) that reduces the enemies desire (or enmity) towards the Dark Knight either overall, or when the player inflicts large amounts of damage. Maybe this trait could activate when the Dark Knight deals a large amount of damage in a short amount of time, and cause the enemy to lose all enmity on the Dark Knight.
PATH 3: WORTHWHILE MELEE
It seems very wrong that the Dark Knight job can not be considered a serious melee threat. That jobs like Ninja or even Dancer can be considered more capable of melee damage is extremely unfair to Dark Knights and entirely unbalanced. There are so many opportunities to fix this that it seems like a waste of time to offer suggestions, but one problem that is very apparent most players is the inadequacy of the Last Resort ability. This ability should be at least on par with the Warrior ability Berserk, and offer Dark Knight's a longer buff than what it currently allows. The downtime on Last Resort (recast - duration) should be *much* shorter, and a duration of 1:30 or 2:00 seems a lot more reasonable than what it currently is.
These are simply ideas extended to you in an attempt to aid the process of moving the Dark Knight job into an effective and unique role within the game. These ideas come from the community's understanding of the game and the roles of various jobs within it. My hope is that this might provide direction, or simply spark other ideas that would allow Dark Knights to fill one of these roles.
e: For clarity, I am not proposing an ability that would keep the mob Terrorized for a minute. As a whole, I'm not even strictly proposing abilities or spells at all. The idea is to define DRK's role.
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