Here Is Your Holy Man, Bathed In The Blood Of Inno

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
users online
フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » Here is your holy man, bathed in the blood of inno
Here is your holy man, bathed in the blood of inno
First Page 2 3 ... 6 7 8 9 10
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2010-11-24 17:21:52
 Undelete | Link | 引用 | 返事
 
Post deleted by User.
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:22:00  
Phoenix.Smileybone said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Quote:
I think it is quite logical to infer instead that the universe just popped into existence one day that some superlogical thing such as a Divine power (or God) created it. If you have a much more logical answer or hypothesis please share.

This is pretty much why religion started in the first place.. People struggle to understand the world around them, but have not the scientific progress to do so, so they attribute it to some divine presence..

Just because we cannot provide the answers at this time, doesn't mean there isn't one.

Of course, there's always the chance that there is indeed a God, and that it is the creator of everything we know today, then again, it's also possible in the future we will make bounds and leaps ahead in science than what we're at now, and we will be able to answer how everything started, we might be able to explain away everything, without having to involve some all-powerful deity.

I am Agnostic, but often claim to be Atheist, I don't discount the possibility of there being some all-powerful being/consciousness, but I very highly doubt it, so that's why I tend to call myself Atheist, even though, technically I am indeed Agnostic.

If you don't have a belief in a god, you are by definition an atheist, regardless of any other section you put yourself in.

Yeah, because it's totally about how others label us, not how we label ourselves.

It is, pay attention.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: vinvv
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:22:07  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
No, again pay attention to the thread, this has been covered. It is the basis of religion. Science and religion are opposites.
Just like you and logical thought.
What do you know anyway, you live at home with mommy.
:P
Did a hot Christian girl tell you your *** was small?
Did they tell you that you were going to hell!?
Awwwww.
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-11-24 17:24:01  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Quote:
I think it is quite logical to infer instead that the universe just popped into existence one day that some superlogical thing such as a Divine power (or God) created it. If you have a much more logical answer or hypothesis please share.

This is pretty much why religion started in the first place.. People struggle to understand the world around them, but have not the scientific progress to do so, so they attribute it to some divine presence..

Just because we cannot provide the answers at this time, doesn't mean there isn't one.

Of course, there's always the chance that there is indeed a God, and that it is the creator of everything we know today, then again, it's also possible in the future we will make bounds and leaps ahead in science than what we're at now, and we will be able to answer how everything started, we might be able to explain away everything, without having to involve some all-powerful deity.

I am Agnostic, but often claim to be Atheist, I don't discount the possibility of there being some all-powerful being/consciousness, but I very highly doubt it, so that's why I tend to call myself Atheist, even though, technically I am indeed Agnostic.

If you don't have a belief in a god, you are by definition an atheist, regardless of any other section you put yourself in.
Wrong, Atheists are the ones who do no believe period..

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.

Which means since I don't discount the possibility of there being a God, and agree that there is no way to prove it one way or another, I am Agnostic.

For me to be Atheist, I'd have to believe 100% there is no, and can be no higher power, deity, God or Gods, however you wish to label it.
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:29:24  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
No, again pay attention to the thread, this has been covered. It is the basis of religion. Science and religion are opposites.
Just like you and logical thought.
What do you know anyway, you live at home with mommy.
:P
Did a hot Christian girl tell you your *** was small?
Did they tell you that you were going to hell!?
Awwwww.

lol on the logical thought part, since you can't be more wrong sir.

So?
no
I've heard that more times than you can count.
 Bismarck.Ihina
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-11-24 17:29:52  
Personally, a mysterious space wizard with no origin using his magic and creating everything we know the universe to be when we, as a species, were still young and ignorant desperately seeking any answer makes a lot sense.

What makes even more sense is how a young girl, traveling alone with a man, through the power of magic, got impregnated somehow, in a time when unwed girls who got pregnant got stoned to death.

But you know what makes the most sense to me. How a large, international corporation to this day still takes advantage of all this, makes tens, maybe hundreds of billions of dollars every year, retaining world-wide power, by doing nothing more than convincing you that it isn't only a wonderful thing that will make you feel good if you give them money and give them power, but also, to raise your children to feel and do the same way. To top it off, they never have to provide any proof or evidence of what they say it true. All they have to do is throw around the word 'faith'.

edit: typo
 Ramuh.Vinvv
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: vinvv
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:30:20  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
No, again pay attention to the thread, this has been covered. It is the basis of religion. Science and religion are opposites.
Just like you and logical thought.
What do you know anyway, you live at home with mommy.
:P
Did a hot Christian girl tell you your *** was small?
Did they tell you that you were going to hell!?
Awwwww.

lol on the logical thought part, since you can't be more wrong sir.

So?
no
I've heard that more times than you can count.
You've heard a girl telling you your *** was small more times than I can count?
I can count up to a million man :/
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:31:07  
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Quote:
I think it is quite logical to infer instead that the universe just popped into existence one day that some superlogical thing such as a Divine power (or God) created it. If you have a much more logical answer or hypothesis please share.

This is pretty much why religion started in the first place.. People struggle to understand the world around them, but have not the scientific progress to do so, so they attribute it to some divine presence..

Just because we cannot provide the answers at this time, doesn't mean there isn't one.

Of course, there's always the chance that there is indeed a God, and that it is the creator of everything we know today, then again, it's also possible in the future we will make bounds and leaps ahead in science than what we're at now, and we will be able to answer how everything started, we might be able to explain away everything, without having to involve some all-powerful deity.

I am Agnostic, but often claim to be Atheist, I don't discount the possibility of there being some all-powerful being/consciousness, but I very highly doubt it, so that's why I tend to call myself Atheist, even though, technically I am indeed Agnostic.

If you don't have a belief in a god, you are by definition an atheist, regardless of any other section you put yourself in.
Wrong, Atheists are the ones who do no believe period..

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.

Which means since I don't discount the possibility of there being a God, and agree that there is no way to prove it one way or another, I am Agnostic.

For me to be Atheist, I'd have to believe 100% there is no, and can be no higher power, deity, God or Gods, however you wish to label it.

I'm sorry if you don't like the definition of the word "atheist" but that's how it is, if you lack the belief in a deity then you are an atheist, regardless of whatever other crap you do or don't believe it is irrelevant to the point.
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-11-24 17:32:22  
Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:32:28  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
No, again pay attention to the thread, this has been covered. It is the basis of religion. Science and religion are opposites.
Just like you and logical thought.
What do you know anyway, you live at home with mommy.
:P
Did a hot Christian girl tell you your *** was small?
Did they tell you that you were going to hell!?
Awwwww.

lol on the logical thought part, since you can't be more wrong sir.

So?
no
I've heard that more times than you can count.
You've heard a girl telling you your *** was small more times than I can count?
I can count up to a million man :/

No, but funny.

You can? prove it, video nao. Be drunk while you do it too.
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-11-24 17:32:54  
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
Offline
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-11-24 17:34:03  
I'm sorry you don't like being proven wrong, re-read the two definitions. You can keep arguing that I'm Atheist until you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the definitions of Agnostic and Atheist.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: vinvv
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:34:11  
Bismarck.Ihina said:
But you know what makes the most logic to me. How a logical international corporation to this day still takes advantage of all the logic, makes tens, maybe hundreds of billions of dollars every year, retaining world-wise power, by doing nothing more than convincing you that logic will make you feel good if you give them money and give them power, but also, to raise your children to feel logical and do the same way. To top it off, they never have to provide any proof or evidence of what they say it true. All they have to do is throw around the word 'logic'.
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:35:48  
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities
Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: vinvv
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:37:00  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
No, again pay attention to the thread, this has been covered. It is the basis of religion. Science and religion are opposites.
Just like you and logical thought.
What do you know anyway, you live at home with mommy.
:P
Did a hot Christian girl tell you your *** was small?
Did they tell you that you were going to hell!?
Awwwww.

lol on the logical thought part, since you can't be more wrong sir.

So?
no
I've heard that more times than you can count.
You've heard a girl telling you your *** was small more times than I can count?
I can count up to a million man :/

No, but funny.

You can? prove it, video nao. Be drunk while you do it too.
why?
it would be illogical to do so since you wouldn't believe it anyway.
i bet it feels bad that you've had girls laugh at your *** though.
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-11-24 17:37:06  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities
Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.

From where are you getting this definition?
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
Offline
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Sevourn
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-11-24 17:37:44  
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities
Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.

From where are you getting this definition?


oh wow lol
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:38:12  
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
I'm sorry you don't like being proven wrong, re-read the two definitions. You can keep arguing that I'm Atheist until you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the definitions of Agnostic and Atheist.

I'm not wrong (at least on this note) you are an atheist if you don't have an expressed belief in a deity, I'm reading the definitions, you sir have it wrong.
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:38:47  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
No, again pay attention to the thread, this has been covered. It is the basis of religion. Science and religion are opposites.
Just like you and logical thought.
What do you know anyway, you live at home with mommy.
:P
Did a hot Christian girl tell you your *** was small?
Did they tell you that you were going to hell!?
Awwwww.

lol on the logical thought part, since you can't be more wrong sir.

So?
no
I've heard that more times than you can count.
You've heard a girl telling you your *** was small more times than I can count?
I can count up to a million man :/

No, but funny.

You can? prove it, video nao. Be drunk while you do it too.
why?
it would be illogical to do so since you wouldn't believe it anyway.


you have no proof of that.
 Sylph.Oddin
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Oddin
Posts: 1756
By Sylph.Oddin 2010-11-24 17:39:35  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities
Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.


a·the·ism
   /ˈeɪθiˌɪzəm/ Show Spelled[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.


ag·nos·tic
   /ægˈnɒstɪk/ Show Spelled[ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2.
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

Huge difference. Please remember that.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: vinvv
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:39:36  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
you have no proof of that.
sure I do.
your tiny ***.
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-11-24 17:40:51  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
I'm sorry you don't like being proven wrong, re-read the two definitions. You can keep arguing that I'm Atheist until you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the definitions of Agnostic and Atheist.

I'm not wrong (at least on this note) you are an atheist if you don't have an expressed belief in a deity, I'm reading the definitions, you sir have it wrong.

You're defining atheistic agnosticism.
 Alexander.Almostunsane
Offline
サーバ: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Alexander.Almostunsane 2010-11-24 17:42:24  
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
Offline
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Sevourn
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-11-24 17:45:27  
Edwards, Paul (2005) [1967]. "Atheism". In Donald M. Borchert. The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Vol. 1 (2nd ed.). MacMillan Reference USA (Gale). p. 359. ISBN 0028657802. "On our definition, an 'atheist' is a person who rejects belief in God, regardless of whether or not his reason for the rejection is the claim that 'God exists' expresses a false proposition. People frequently adopt an attitude of rejection toward a position for reasons other than that it is a false proposition. It is common among contemporary philosophers, and indeed it was not uncommon in earlier centuries, to reject positions on the ground that they are meaningless. Sometimes, too, a theory is rejected on such grounds as that it is sterile or redundant or capricious, and there are many other considerations which in certain contexts are generally agreed to constitute good grounds for rejecting an assertion.". (page 175 in 1967 edition)


that said, many dictionaries list the definition of agnostic under the definition of atheist

just as dictionaries often list ain't

atheist can be informally used interchangably with agnostic

but at that point we're Equivocating




 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:45:30  
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities
Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.

From where are you getting this definition?

I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991

now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.

here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm

so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:46:34  
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
I'm sorry you don't like being proven wrong, re-read the two definitions. You can keep arguing that I'm Atheist until you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the definitions of Agnostic and Atheist.

I'm not wrong (at least on this note) you are an atheist if you don't have an expressed belief in a deity, I'm reading the definitions, you sir have it wrong.

You're defining atheistic agnosticism.

na, I'm defining atheism, he's defining the other.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: vinvv
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:47:40  
theism:
Quote:
1.the belief in one god as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation ( distinguished from deism).
2.
belief in the existence of a god or gods ( opposed to atheism).
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Offline
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Flavin
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2010-11-24 17:48:14  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Why are you against religion Jet?

I'm against the very thoughts that cause religion, permitting illogical thinking and ignorance regardless of the truths in front of you, that doesn't make me close minded one bit.
What illogical thinking and ignorance?
Care to elaborate on why you believe it to be illogical and irrational as opposed to what you firmly believe in?

I firmly believe in nothing, short of what can be proven to me, to do otherwise would be irrational.

You must not believe in much then lol...
 Ramuh.Vinvv
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: vinvv
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-11-24 17:48:38  
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities
Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, not a rejection.

From where are you getting this definition?

I'll admit there is some dispute about the correction definition, but on Merriam-Webster, dictionary.com and a few others have this definition as an acceptable one, however what is the definition of theism?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism?show=0&t=1290641991

now an atheist is not a theist, and if a theist has a belief in a god, an atheist lacks that belief.

here's an about.com article on the matter
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm

so I'll conceded that the other definition can be used, however (warning stating opinion here) I find that definition to be inaccurate.
Why?
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Jetackuu
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-11-24 17:48:46  
Lakshmi.Flavin said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Why are you against religion Jet?

I'm against the very thoughts that cause religion, permitting illogical thinking and ignorance regardless of the truths in front of you, that doesn't make me close minded one bit.
What illogical thinking and ignorance?
Care to elaborate on why you believe it to be illogical and irrational as opposed to what you firmly believe in?

I firmly believe in nothing, short of what can be proven to me, to do otherwise would be irrational.

You must not believe in much then lol...

Nope, there's no reason to.
First Page 2 3 ... 6 7 8 9 10
Log in to post.