Usefulness In Devotion Still?

Okay let me explain it for clueless Nightfyre. You initially open up Protectra V and Shellra V right? You can merit them 4 more times after that. Protectra V adds 60 points of defense. Each merit after that gives gives an additional 2 points of defense. So... 60+2+2+2+2=68 defense from a fully merited Protectra V. Oooooo 8 frickin extra defense. Sorry but to me 8 extra defense isn't worth all the merits it takes to get it. Open up the spell and be done with it. Now the same goes for Shellra V. (Domz, you pay attention too here, hon, since you obviously need things spelled out for you too.) Shellra V initially reduces magic damage by ~24.2% Each additional merit reduces it by another ~.8% So.... ~24.2%+.8% etc etc gives you a magic damage reduction of 27.34% or so. Ooooooo wow. All those merits to get and additional ~.32% magic damage reduction. NOT WORTH IT. Get the spell and spend the merits elsewhere. So yes, Domz, you misread that. I didn't say shellra V wasn't important. I said maxing it out wasn't that important.

Our main WHM in the LS uses it all the time outside of Abyssea at other events (Sea, Dynamis, etc...that is if you still partake in those anymore)

I can see this not being as worth it in Abyssea, due to so much Atma and temp items. But outside, where those luxuries aren't available...
It can still save a life :D

@aerytrea why do people go through of the trouble of getting max magic damage taken down sets? because every little percent counts greatly. having maxed out shellra 5 and barspell effect is imperative if you want to reduce extreme nukes and agas down to a managable level.

@Domz I understand what you're saying about wanting to keep the damage down, but... it's really not that much difference. Say some crazy *** kicking -aga spell goes off. Without Shell V, it would have hit you for say 1200 dmg. Since you have shell V (no merits) it only takes off 909 health. With shell V fully merited, it would only bring the damage down to 871. That's 38 hp difference. Now yes, I know that in some situations that's the tiny little bit of health that means the difference in being one shotted by an -aga or barely making it through it. So only because of that I'll just leave it at 'let's agree to disagree'. But again most groups are going to be prepared to stop those -aga spells from happening anyway. They'll have mages to stun and whatnot, and hopefully no *** kicking -aga spell will ever get casted. But I do completely agree with you that having barspells merited fully is very important.

if you have to ask, then no;
if you had to think about it, then situationally maybe;
if you use it, then well, i guess you're waiting to use it again.

and just to get it out there (and i speak from experience and observation, etc. nor am i compelled by anyone/-thing in regards to capitalization lol) from seeing others that i call fillers or downright liabilities, it is just a pet peeve of mine when protectra v gets overwritten by an outside pV (red mage, scholar, outside white mage ; ;) or if a scholar or a red mage/scholar casts bar- );, but generally you won't have/see/need/encounter such combination but you may and do sometimes, sometimes even 2 white mages in a party ';D lol (this is what i mean by fillers/liabilities when you get extra people with only so-so jobs to tag along and have no where to put them unless make a new party for an alliance for whatever bizarre reason @,@ scholar and white mage combination tend to be more rare than red mage and white mage if ever in a party of 6-)

until we see a release of a sV and i'm not saying there will be one or not (i did joke about cure vi though >,>, someone was listening ';O!!!) shellraV is a good thing to invest points in if you can spare it

oh and for those that do not use martyr or even unlocked, i've always used it as a last-card for whatever reason, out of mp, silenced/bound, do-because-i-can.. i speak from both sides (sad it's been converted to sides) abyssea and everything-else.. i mean outside i did it in conjunction with a cure if i'm curing someone outside a party or in the alliance or hey, anytime i'm casting a cure, if i need another cure instantly atm within my party, i have a quick last-card instantly - yes it has saved lives before because no one has chainspell cures and yes 1.1-1.2 second cures sometimes not fast enough (unless you use macros but i don't because i stink with them 'xD)

but to give some proper merit for martyr the least bit for you abyssea-junkies, think about this formula: usually, i use it and just regen myself or use whatever tier strength to however much Hp you are down (because most good healers try not to stay in AoE range or try to die >_>'; you learned that at like level 8-11 i hope). now, you abyssea-junkies, my Hp is rather high and if you know the formula for it, it's basically a free shiny cure ';p, unless you're one of those people that run in when a chariot Tp's, you shouldn't die, especially since i forgot they changed range to cure's range... true i use devotion like 50 times more than martyr, but for what devotion offers in comparison to martyr, martyr is a mere play toy of a job ability really (or a last-card in my viewpoint ';p)

con: no 0.5-1-2 hit stoneskin (in comparison to cure, in abyssea) when you do it but hey it was practically free unless you happen to be in misery for whatever given circumstance (hey didn't have those nifty abilities when i started anyway ._.) or you died from some crazy meteor-size ranged-AoE
pro: last-card for whatever situation, fun to use in besieged, if you're emo- and like to kill yourself fun to couple with devotion for a half-dead white mage ';p

take this viewpoint of martyr and apply it when necessary for devotion, and you may just change the tide of the battle, a really tough battle if it did o,o'; (maybe not, but it had to be said 'xD) ofcourse, one last thing, and it's just the truth, if you have to *RELY* on this ability, you need to re-prioritize your setup or someone just sucks with their Mp, it's nice on a paladin or some mage that has lost all of their Mp for whatever reason, but circumstantially they should never be out of mp or always out of it, your discretion when to use it and on who, good luck!

Yes absolutely yes.

I can do a 700+ Devotion every 10 min.(inside aby of course)

If MP users aren't always at 100% MP then its way worth it. I am gimp I only have 1 refresh Atma and im my idle set I get +14mp(on rdm) back per tick and I still run out of MP.

I would imagine Tanks would like devotion a lot to since they most likely aren't getting a refresh Atma. They can Cure cheat over and over at the start of a fight to get hate and I can fill them back up.

Martyr is not *** useful for a "sticky situation". Cure 6 takes 1 *** second to cast if you aren't a shitty WHM

And if you're having MP problems you fall under shitty WHM too.

I don't agree with that at all.

You've never been in a "sticky" situation on whm and didn't have MP for a Cure6. Either you need to more stuff on whm or do more stuff with less ppl.

Hey Snick you *** moron. You're obviously not the white mage I see in your picture there or you'd understand what a sticky situation is. Sticky situation doesn't have to mean no mp. It could mean anything. I.E. ran forward a bit to cure someone who randomly ran out of cure casting range and then got muted by some mob (muted can't be taken off by echo drops before you come back with some stupid ***about me being a shitty white mage for not having echo drops) and someone's going to die--Martyr saves a life. I.E. got silenced somehow, need to cure VERY quickly to save someone, no time to take an echo drop. Martyr gives them enough health to last while you echo drop yourself and carry on healing. And just because you run out of mp doesn't mean you're a shitty white mage. Again you're obviously not white mage enough or at all or you'd know that there are times you can run out of mp. Snick, stick to what you know, because you obviously don't know anything about white mage. And if you ARE the white mage in your picture...damn I feel sorry for any group that has you.

I never do anything with more than 5 bodies(3 people). Try harder.

And no, if you "run foward and get silenced" that qualifies as being a shitty WHM. Knowing the mob you're fighting is like 90% of the game.

You're wrong about Shellra, you're right about Protectra.

5/5 Shellra
1/5 Protectra
0-3/5 Martyr
0-3/5 Devotion

Last two are your choice

hahahaha

No, you don't open Protectra V at all. Now get this: MDT has increasing returns. The more MDT you have, the better it gets. If you have a set (like my primary MDT set) where that extra 3.125% takes you to cap (-50%), it's a 6% reduction in damage taken. For a terribad WHM like you who apparently can't manage their MP, I'd say that's pretty useful. Wouldn't you agree? Really useful for those high-damage NMs too.

Try hard to do what? I didnt insult you at all..like not even a little bit. But to say that in your entire whm career you've never been in a sticky situation can't be true. And with lowman situations Devotion should be all the more important it gives you an extra 300/600mp inside/outside Abyssea for nothing. Please explain to me how that isn't worth it.

He's always WHM for us, and I've never experienced a situation with him where Martyr would have been the difference between survival and failure. Not once. Have we had sticky situations, sure. But he never needed Martyr for them.

I was downplaying Martyr, not Devotion.

Devotion has lost its allure within Abyssea, that isn't to say it's useless but it's not useful either.

Free MP and hate free curing is useless.

Holy ***, reading comprehension.

I may have been confused then..I thought we were talking about Devotion...I stick to what I said about Devotion.

I have mixed feelings about Marytr but I can see how its worth 1/5. I lack respectable whm Atmas so I just use HP+ and with Hp gears I dev/marytr with 2800 hp its funny to see a 700+ Devotion and same goes with Marytr.

Not as valuable as it sounds given that it's only one cure. You'll cap CE 5 seconds later instead, and at that point it comes down to whether or not you've had to cure fast enough to cap VE. Martyr does generate VE, so it won't help you there.

He still has and uses his Devo merit given how fast I can burn through MP on BLU, so we're not disagreeing with you there.

My point is that, if Devotion didn't exist it wouldn't effect the outcome of any fights. Sure Night couldn't spam spells as much, which would arguably increase the time taken, but it is a very minimal upgrade at best. Then there are always situations where going in range to use Devotion just isn't practical.

Again, not useless, but not useful either.

Dammit I typed it wrong.

Free MP and a hate free cure is not useful..

So much anger..tisk tisk tisk.

I do a lot of lowman stuff in abyssea. So it's not uncommon to throw out a devotion to the BLM trying to proc grellow !!'s. So as a career WHM, it is worth having AT LEAST 1 merit into.

Martyr is ALSO equally as useful. Again, I'm usually the only healer in low manning stuff. Before getting the Minikin atma, the odd martyr saved me the mp and I was able to keep up. But it's all a matter of choice.

My merits on WHM are:
Martyr: 1
Devotion: 1
Protectra V: 1
Shellra V: 5

I do realize that under the circumstances now, taking out that merit in protectra v would be warrented, but I merited WHM long before /SCH was implemented. But, I also know that I use my strategems constantly, and I'm just too lazy :P

All and all, it's a matter of preference. Play around with some merits and see what works for you, and what doesn't. Keep note of what you use and don't use. Lord knows it's not like merits are hard to come by now lol.

P.s.
Just missed something in a previous post. Yes there are some situations where running in range to use Devo/Martyr is dangerous and you shouldn't. But that's a call the WHM has to make. And with all the atma's around, mp consumption isn't as worrisome as it used to be. But there will be a situation in where you find yourself wishing you had it. I almost forget I have them sometimes myself.

I however, don't see a reason in meriting the cool down. You won't be using it often enough to need it.

So wait, you're trying to justify martyr for a 1 in 10 shot at actually being useful, but you're against meriting Shellra V to max, which is useful 100% of the time? What?

Edit: wow nvm, that's what I get for afking on a page for too long.

Lol.

Was directed at Aerytrea's most recent post. Which wasn't as recent as I had believed.

Still made me lol.

W/e, still pretty accurate.

Still useful in Aby, albeit not as much as in other areas.
The point was brought up about PLD
and to a further extent other jobs that may not want to take a refresh atma.
My Devotion is still used every 10min when I WHM an Aby run.

Athamas: Sickle Slash, Draw In, Silencega = perfect time for Martyr

Situations like that are rare, but taking the time to eat echo drops when your tank desperately needs a cure is going to get your tank killed. Athamas decided my final group 2 merit for me.


Are you on drugs? Shellra V has always been and still is the one group 2 merit you go 5/5 on. If you go 1 Protectra V (which is even more useless with Protect V available), 1 Shellra V, where else are you putting your merits? Seriously. If you're short on merits, sure, get the 1 point to start, but I get so many merits every night from killing Abyssea NMs, I don't even know what to spend them on.