Pld Subjob In Voidwatch

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and very little means to get enmity outside of spells(that will get interrupted most likely) and punches/ws ^0^

I'm not even sure where she was going with that, anyway. Stumbling upon the correct conclusion utilizing an understanding of something that's miles away from solidity isn't something to brag about. There's a reason your teacher asked you to show your work in math class.

Isn't it already that way?

Yes, I don't believe it myself. I have a really good MNK too and I don't see myself tanking most of the crap I have on Pld in VW. The less people you bring, the less procs you have, the less you can rely on meds. This means you have to have a large amount of these super warriors/mages who cap HP and deal with debuffs and buffs and doesnt afraid of anything.

Is anyone paying attention in this thread?

Everything I've said hinges on one's lack of an Ochain or an Aegis.

Everything I've said hinges on one's surplus of able bodies.

If you don't have an abundance of available procs, this obviously isn't feasible, because you're obviously not getting recharged quickly enough to make the MP usage feasible.

I've read what you have typed, but I disagree with it. You believe you are 100% correct, so maybe there is no point in debating it. I'd like to see it in action though, a "run of the mill" mnk tanking each and every voidwatch NM w/o fail. All the while being better than a PLD tank, on MP, on procs (which wasn't even touched upon, pld has more procs than mnk), and general survivability/hate control.

I'm fine, I've got T4 clears. You're making blanket statements about the effectiveness of something and how easy it is to handle certain aspects of these fights without having actually beat them all.

Our non-Nirvana SMN's use Ramuh for 900, so if that's your excuse or reason for lack of damage, you're better off spending a day in LaTheine/Miseraux and getting your SMN and THF an Armageddon each. They can both sub BLM to stun and will deal 9000+x the damage if that's all your SMN is managing.

You're right though, we as a community do know and figured out long ago that defense isn't a straight reduction in attacks. I am stating that with Cocoon up the first time I will take damage (without solace effect) is when he uses a TP move. What does this mean? Unless my game is wonky, it probably means that Vdubs has a low amount of attack. Considering that unblocked he hits the weakest of all 3 T4's (by about 100) he has either a low fSTR component or that+low attack.

'Run of the mill' means something entirely different to MNK and PLD. A 'run of the mill' MNK can do virtually everything a perfect MNK can, while a 'run of the mill' PLD doesn't have two of the most powerful tools available to the job. I also don't recall ever stating(quite the opposite) that MNK was better on MP. That aside, explain to me how a PLD using a GSD or staff is dramatically sturdier than a MNK, please.

And you know where the door is if you're last ditch effort is to start up with the "you don't know how to be wrong" nonsense, because I explicitly declared that these were my opinions(aside from correcting people on how damage reduction works).

Those JA that you call useless, or maybe those meds that your mages are allowed to spam?

It's not a last ditch effort, I'm not trying to out do you or anything. You said you didn't understand why people use PLD because its inferior to MNK, and I'm trying to understand/argue otherwise.

lolwat



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Sentinel once every five minutes does not provide more sustainability than ~600 HP.

Still wondering where all of this "blanket statements" nonsense is coming from.

Can only make statements based on previously stated facts.

Clearly people are forgetting about Guard.

because that 600 hp will never be missing and your mages will have you instantly capped for any ws or spell or melee swing/TA? Also, sentinel isn't the only tool available.

I think Draylo is trying to say that if you're bringing enough support to heal and kill mobs with a MNK + MNK tank setup, then you've got enough support to kill mobs more efficiently and with less risk with a PLD + PLD setup. (Non-Ochain/Aegis)

Enough people to kill/cure means enough people to proc, enough procs makes the fights stupid easy barring a missed stun and HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE everyone syndrome.

Sorry, let's not forget Shield Bash. The chance of avoiding being one-shotted, the only legitimate danger with proper support, does outweigh whatever mystery tool you seem to think Paladin has at its disposal.

you dont need to have ochain or aegis to tank VW NMs while its nice to have one you can still tank with out one. i been doing it since i started VW.

if you think ochain or aegis is the only way you can hold hate or stay alive when tanking then your thinking wrong, i been doing just fine with using kaiser shield

as for subjob then i'd personally suggest /WAR reguardless of what shield your using /DRK could work but i feel squishy as /DRK, /BLU can work only if you know how to use it also your relying on MP hate spells as /BLU which i know you can get interupted alot, would not suggest /BLU when no ochain

Let's also not forget that PLD has more procs than a MNK which is a main reason for even bringing more people.

I don't think you read the topic. Nobody said a Paladin without Ochain or Aegis can't tank Voidwatch. It's just potentially unnecessary (and there are several VW mobs where Paladin just seems silly to use).

Guess this is about where u do u and imma do me comes in. From where I'm standing, and based on how damage intake in this game works, as long as one of your mages is paying attention and you've got plenty of bodies lying around for procs, a MNK leaves more room for error against the most dangerous aspects of higher tier VW. Don't want to take my word on it? That's ducky. You'll probably fail/succeed regardless of what I say.

lol

Perhaps we should, I'd still like to see it in action. If I'm wrong, it would be nice to change my tactics. I don't see how its possible though, it seems like you are talking about a perfect scenario with perfect people playing their jobs perfectly. You are also assuming you get procs and refill on meds the instant you need them since you said mnk isn't better than PLD on MP.

Give me an able bodied alliance and I'm sure I can give you an able bodied MNK and WHM.

Honestly its impossible for me, I dunno where you would find them. I had a whm two days ago who full timed a macc staff, the one with +100 mp to heal us with. Even if you have near perfect crew of people, it would be pretty risky if any hate reset move got off or ***happened because ***does happen.

My DRK got one shotted by Hahava in full PDT gear, 1986 damage exactly, I have just barley 1.6k HP on drk, I really cant imagine a normal DD tanking VW NMs, DRK has some of the better PDT options in the game as well.

Also blocking TP moves isnt restricted to Ochain, other shields can block a blow dealt from a NMs TP moves, its just that ochain has 90-95% block rate so its happening virtually every attack.

If you're really interested in this, I('m fairly certain I) can provide the MNK, WHM, and stunner. This is assuming Cair is really bored one day.

If anything, do it to shut Kiara(sp?) up.