Health Care Reform Passes

You have no idea...though I'd say more of a laziness issue. my gfs sister will litterally just stay at school till someone picks her up even if it will take hours. She lives like 1.5 miles away.

Hell I'm sure you've seen the escalators up to a gym lol.

Man theres a lot of text to sift through in this thread. I for one am seriously bummed (understating a little) about this thing being on the doorstep of passing. One huge point being missed by all the posts I read (about 60% give or take) is this bill was not the only fix for the "healthcare crisis." I don't think many people supported the status quo, although people against this bill or "republicans" were painted as liking the status quo and wanting people to die. There were many other fixes that could have been made to make health insurance more affordable for people, like allowing for more competition between insurance companies and capping what people can sue doctors for.

Heres the problem with America today, if we have money (and even if we don't) we spend it. 70%+ of americans live pay check to paycheck. We don't know how to save anymore. We will readily bury ourselves under a mortgage, 2 cars, some other toys, and multiple computers and LCD tvs. Then the washer breaks and we don't have the money to fix it or a get a new one...then the visa comes out. Yeah medical bills should not bankrupt you...not because its expense, but because you should have some sort of financial cushion.

Lemme tell you something about our tax system, its robbery. You mean to tell me if I decide to work two jobs or bust my *** and stay away from home 4-5 days a week uncle sam is going to charge me a higher percentage of my income because I jumped up into another bracket? Capital gains tax...are you kidding me?! (BTW with this bill that tax goes up another 5%) My dad and I had a joint fund that he just switched over to my full custody. This money was money left over from my dad's income that he already paid taxes on. Now i'm fighting for my financial life as IRS wants 4 *** grand for nothing! And for some, frankly asshat foreigner, that stated we only pay 15% tax you are very misinformed. I wish my paycheck was only taxed 15%. But your taxes don't end there, seriously look at every bill you pay and all the taxes here and there, also sales tax (8.25 here), oh, how bout that gas tax, then all those fees and ***any time you need a license or permit. The tax system is seriously broken. And look, if you are so high and mighty and want to save people from dying in the streets, start an organization, donate money, or become a doctor and volunteer. How generous that you are making everyone donate to the cause YOU believe in. Here in my house I believe in taking care of my gf and my future son, my dogs, one of which I had to drop about 2-3k on for a major injury this year. Please don't tell me how I don't care about the rest of my countrymen, get off your high horse and open YOUR wallet, not mine.

When I first got my current job I waived medical insurance. I was young and never had any medical problems. I had one emergency room visit and didn't have my checkbook or owned an atm card so I paid with my visa. Now you are telling me I would have had to pay $750 for something I didn't need...bs. Buy an SE security chip...oh you don't want one (or can't afford one) thats cool we'll tak on an extra fee to your game subscription.

Trickle down economics is not working for me right now, because the rich are being robbed by taxes left and right- so the faucet is barely on at the top.

Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, how's that working out...

Btw back to tax rant. I'm for a consumption or better known, fair tax. Get rid of the IRS, get rid of taxing my paycheck. Put a sales tax on everything you buy 15-23% (maybe some essentials like food, meds, etc would be tax free.). Buy a big tv you don't really need, pay taxes, but hey if you have some debt to pay off, cut back on buying some things. Your an illegal alien here in the US? Thats cool your still paying into our system.

I'm thinking next will be amnesty for illegals...get ready for even more uninsured thrown into the system. Having more customers thrown into the system would make for more demand, but ultimtely doctors, nurses, technicians, etc need to pay loans back, mortgages, etc, if the hospital or practice cannot turn a profit they have to close their doors or hope for a government bailout. Walgreens is no longer taking new medicare customers, Arizona is dropping the SCHIP program, this is going to continue, because like it or not all these places are businesses.

America has always shined and excelled because they have blazed their own path and come up with unique solutions. This is a solution, but ultimately one that will require fix after fix after fix.

Ultimately this an unfortunate result of the change in society in America, no longer fight and/or work for everything you have, but you have a right to everything.

Anyways back to work, I still have another month of so working for the government since we're not even done 25% of the year yet. My .02 cents, which I will now donate to someone else's healthcare, because i'm made to do so.

I love the fact that I can't afford health insurance now, and so I get to pay at least $695 more in taxes as a penalty for not having it!

I'm not sure this is helping me. Maybe it's my neighbors that have health insurance.

Yes, the good old, if you don't like it then leave argument.

Instead, how bout I and all the people who think along the same lines that I do, vote in other people who feel the same way so they can repeal this crap.

"I don't think many people supported the status quo, although people against this bill or "republicans" were painted as liking the status quo and wanting people to die."

Actually it was the Republicans who came up with death panels to make the Democrats look like they wanted to kill grandma.

It's not that Repubs supported the status quo, it's that they refused to allow any sort of Democratic solution to pass by without an endless fight. In their right of course to a point to do so, but when you're the minority party, you don't get to have everything your way. I don't think they have ever understood that concept. When they had control of congress, all you needed to get anything passed was 50%+1, because they were the majority and they ran the show (and they were well within their right to do so).

The bill has added plenty of concepts pitched by Republicans, yet they complained from day 1 about being railroaded by the Dems.

Its all in the name of the country dude, United STATES of America. Our country is a bunch of states that are united under one flag. The FED was established for 2 reasons. To keep the states from fighting among each other/settle disputes and to produce a defense strong enough to repell any attackers. For the record your tax dollars that the fed uses for roads is mainly used for interstates. Besides stimulating commerce in your state, they were built to make mobilizing military ground units easily along the continent. Great example is H3 in Hawaii, this was conceived after the Japanese bombed pearl harbor when we realized the marines had no way to truck their butts over from Kaneohe to Pearl Harbor efficiently. Also note how many major arteries in this country are part of the Eisenhower system conceived after WW2 when we saw how hard it was to get around. I don't mind paying for these basic needs, they are important. Everything else is the business of the individual or state to decide.

It is a sad day when, ostensibly to provide health care to the uninsured, staggering debt will accrue and still leave approximately 17 million uninsured. That is the Democrat's own estimate.

Better to have had actual debate, no back room deals, and deal with solely those who can't afford insurance. Would have been cheaper.

Welcome to the People's Democratic Republic of the United States.

Actually it was the Republicans who came up with death panels to make the Democrats look like they wanted to kill grandma.

It's not that Repubs supported the status quo, it's that they refused to allow any sort of Democratic solution to pass by without an endless fight. In their right of course to a point to do so, but when you're the minority party, you don't get to have everything your way. I don't think they have ever understood that concept. When they had control of congress, all you needed to get anything passed was 50%+1, because they were the majority and they ran the show (and they were well within their right to do so).

The bill has added plenty of concepts pitched by Republicans, yet they complained from day 1 about being railroaded by the Dems.

Kind sir 50%+1 is not how this works. Reconciliation is only used for budgetary items not passing sweeping bills like this.

Also never mind the guys with easels talking about how the Republican plan is for you to "not get sick."

You are making this out to be Dem vs. Repub. Get that *** out of your head. Also ftw 34 dems voted against this if you want to stay on that. Frankly I don't care. I just hate how if you didn't agree with this you just wanted people to die, that was my point.

I just hate how if you wanted this bill to pass you were wanting to replace the Constitution with The Little Red Book

I unno, I could always watch the Canadian news are hear about that stuff. In any case it was a med class, we were jus comparing Privatized and Universal health care.

Sounds to me like... Democrats win, Democrats do things that Democrats do, Republicans can't do much because... Republicans lost this time B|a. But there's only two parties, so it's one way, or the other, right?

I mean, having a 4 slash 5 party system isn't a bad thing. If the Prime Minister only has 40% of the seats, then he's gotta go through 60% of his opposition, so no matter how much Mr. Harper wants an American system, he will never get it, and no other PM will anyways, seeing as how even conservatives here still vote in favour of Universal Health Care/pro-life/gun control/etc, generally. (aka there is an in-between)

Why are so many people against socialized health care? What about everything else that's already socialized? I'd actually like some help on this one...

If you cant stand it and have to leave the States... theres not many places left to go that don't have socialized anything... =X

Alright, since no one here's tossed this out that I've seen...

Do those of you who are completely against this bill actually have ANY clue what tests and whatnot actually run? What's that? No? Okay. Then shut up and I'll educate you.

Healthcare = Expensive.

Want a kid? That's at least $5,000. What's that? You need a caesarian section, too? We'll just tack on another grand or two. Oh, also, you're going to need anesthesia for that unless you feel like feeling us slice through seven layers of skin, muscle and fat to get to your uterus. So, let's see.. That can actually be kind of costly considering that anesthesia's billed by time. And not just a basic flat rate, either. Nope! From the time your anesthesiologist puts you under, to the time you're in the recovery room and no longer under the care of said anesthesiologist, you're being billed. Oh, there's also the charges for time in the recovery room and any supplies that have been used in that time.

Let's give another scenario here.

Have a kidney stone? That'll require tests to make sure that's actually what you have. I'm talking x-rays and/or ultrasounds. Well, if you don't have insurance, that alone is costly since it's billed mostly by views, so let's hope that it's small enough to pass on its own. Oh, darn, it's too big to pass on its own, so we're going to have to catheterize you until we can get you in for lithotripsy. Let me tell you from personal experience that lithotripsy ALONE costs roughly around $6,000 dollars. That's not including everything else (i.e. tests, anesthesia if it's required, etc etc).

I don't even want to THINK about what it costs to be on life support.

Now, since we have this currently absolutely RIDICULOUS health system currently, this damn bill is a blessing. I'm not speaking just from experience, but as a person who's actually gone to SCHOOL for medical billing & coding. You truly have no idea how much things cost until either a) you deal with this stuff or b) have to have things done WITHOUT insurance.

As for those of you who bash the other countries because they have an opinion about our health system and have said, and I quote, "GTFO," just grow up a little. They're right. Hell, I have a sister-in-law and brother that live in Canada. She's pregnant and will NOT come down to the states until AFTER she has given birth because it's too damn expensive here to have a kid where their health care's taken care of up there in exchange for some higher tax rates. Big freaking deal. It's actually a proven fact that the countries with health care given to them live longer. Why? Because they're not afraid of massive co-pays when they go to visit the doctors and get tests run and things get detected earlier.

Plus you have to remember, just because something costs one thing in one state doesn't mean it's uniform in the other states. Each has their own charges and fees when it comes to medical care. Does that mean I wanna go trucking state-to-state to see who's the cheapest to have my girly needs and whatnot taken care of? No.

Plus, as Dasva said, I'm one of those "moochers and/or bleeding hearts" considering I do NOT have health insurance. What does this mean?

All together now.

I get to pay OUT OF POCKET for things I need. WOO HOO! Can't you tell I'm just THRILLED about this? Ugh..

*Puts away the soap box now*

As far as paying for your own roads they actually have toll roads down in cali. Sure it cost extra but they tend to be better maintained much less traffic and often are shorter distances too.

But yeah roads are kinda something everyone needs and uses even if you don't use them. If our taxes didn't pay for roads all over chances are you wouldn't have nice roads except in really busy places that were maintained by groups raising local state tax to pay for it.

Or possibly by large companies (since they will need them to increase profits) but they will definitely pass the cost onto you. And since you buy that stuff you were benefiting from those roads you didn't actually use without knowing it.

Things like schools are also easy. If your average citizen can't read or write do simple math etc what makes you think they are going to obey the laws they can't read? Or be able to follow simple instructions etc etc etc. Which has direct impacts on every citizen. And since everyone is required to go to school everyone gets the direct benefit of having that free education. Though you wont pay for it for awhile.

Law enforcement/military: Same thing it protects everyone and without which everyone would be in danger. (ok rich people who can actually hire private militaries/gaurds/whatever excluded). More importantly it's kinda impossible to not by extension protect everyone regardless of there status unless you deport them.

Medicine: Not everyone uses it. The amount people use it very much widely varies. And of course the major one not everyone is paying insurance.

And indeed why should people in good health who are responsible for there money pay into insurance? After all generally speaking most people pay in alot more than they take out. And if you do start taking out more your rates generally increase. They real key is of course being responsible with your money so that you actual keep the money you would of been paying for insurance for stuff like say some kind of accident or disease or random emergency.

And yeah you shouldn't expect to get coverage easy like that (or for the same amount) when you were chilling with 0 coverage then got sick and were like oh crap I need insurance...

But the link between Joe schmoe down the street making poor life decisions and not having enough money for doctors visit connection to me is teneous at best.

And for those Joe schmoes with there poor life choices stop thinking you have the right to bleed me of money and mooch off of me. It's not your right

Sounds to me like... Democrats win, Democrats do things that Democrats do, Republicans can't do much because... Republicans lost this time B|a. But there's only two parties, so it's one way, or the other, right?

I mean, having a 4 slash 5 party system isn't a bad thing. If the Prime Minister only has 40% of the seats, then he's gotta go through 60% of his opposition, so no matter how much Mr. Harper wants an American system, he will never get it, and no other PM will anyways, seeing as how even conservatives here still vote in favour of Universal Health Care/pro-life/gun control/etc, generally. (aka there is an in-between)

Why are so many people against socialized health care? What about everything else that's already socialized? I'd actually like some help on this one...

If you cant stand it and have to leave the States... theres not many places left to go that don't have socialized anything... =X

Yeah seriously where would you go?

Speaking of great countries and waxing waning civilizations. Anyone ever read "The Next 100 Years" by George Friendman. Quite some interesting ideas and predictions.

Lol Lumra... does the Green Party of Canada even count? During the talks about how the opposition wanted to form a coalition government.. never once did I hear of the Green Party lol.

Why would we want to leave the country? America is a great place! We just don't believe in this bill as a proper solution. Why should we GTFO just because we disagree? :( When our founding fathers wrote the Constitution they wanted something different than the rest of the world. Why be the same as the rest of the world, we weren't always this way. ;D

Hence, the 4 slash 5 XD
Actually, they were in on it, with out-of-parliamentary support, along with Mr. Bloc at the time.

Lol at a moochers wall of text...

Hey that would all be cheaper if you had actually paid for insurance. Or idk saved up the money you were saving by not paying it. While your at why not ask everyone you know to pay for it for you instead?

I typed this to intentionally allude to both state and Federal taxes. but the point (imo) is still valid. I pay taxes the same as you do, my taxes benefit you in ways they don;t benefit me and vis versa. this is simply another example of this

Yes I understand how much medical bills cost. My dog just had an FHO and physical therapy. And thats not even a human! I did not have doggie healthcare. Maybe someone needs to pay part of my dog's surgery. I mean animals have rights to, and had I not had the money she would have had to be left in the street to die. Isn't this America?

"I typed this to intentionally allude to both state and Federal taxes. but the point (imo) is still valid. I pay taxes the same as you do, my taxes benefit you in ways they don;t benefit me and vis versa. this is simply another example of this"

I very well knew why you wrote it. Point being if we stuck to the basic needs and less of these entitlements, we'd be on equal ground. Now my tax money is being used to buy tunnels for turtle in California.

LOL, you sure got something different alright...

When Canada's founding fathers wrote our Constitution they wanted something different form the rest of the world, and we were! Then came the 1950s a a CRAZY idea was purposed by a guy named Diefenbaker decided it was time to change it. Thirtyish years later... another guy named Trudeau said "***, let's modernize the constitution, things are different now then they were back then"

Dasva, your ignorance has yet to cease to amaze me. For your information, I'm not a moocher. I'm not on welfare. I don't have kids and I CERTAINLY do not enjoy people paying my way for me. I'm just merely stating MY opinion on this bill, which, unless things have changed that drastically within the last couple of minutes, I have the right to just like anyone else.

I'm also just trying to point out how expensive things can be without insurance. So, instead of just calling it a "wall of text," as you so moronically said, did you even bother to read it? I'm not pulling information out of my butt here or reading off of other websites. Do you know how the medical billing and/or coding process even works?

Lol that reminds me of that case of road rage where the people stopped the dude got out of the car grabbed the womans little taco bell dog and threw it into traffic several years back.

If I remember right a few police actively worked on that case for over a year...

I was watching the news and one Hospital charged $1,000 for a toothbrush, this was recent.

It was a wall of text. Full of QQ things cost so much because I don't have insurance QQ. You even say you are one of those moocher/bleedin hearts saying you don't have insurance...

I know perfectly well how much things can cost. I have paid out of pocket for things that were scheduled and should've happened when I had full coverage but because they took rediculous amount of time to actually do them and added steps and stalled ended up happening when I was uninsured.

I'm currently unisured. I don't plan on gettting any for awhile. And I never once planned on asking anyone else to pay for my health care cost. In fact unless it was something specifically caused by someone else (or maybe a company) I would probably refuse such help. Or at the very least promise to pay them back.

Ya know why? Cause I was raised in an apparently rather old fashioned way of thinking that you actually earn your way thru life.

Yes we sure do have something different. We are the most properous country in the world. As much as you would contest, we truely are the only super power in the world.

I'm saying this mainly in the context of the fact that we are the first civilization in the world to control all the oceans. If we got an administration that all of a sudden decided we truely didn't want someone to send their freighters on the high seas, they'd be stuck in port or at the bottom of the sea. Really i'm serious, theres no navy like ours right now. Not Russia, not China, not Japan. All this was built by Americans free of the chains of big government.

The good news is history repeats itself. Super powers rise and fall, and these normally occur in 500 year epochs. Some historians speculate we haven't hit our peak yet. (Most of us will be in nursing homes when we do.) So this shouldn't be the end of the world. BTW the last epoch was the "European Epoch", never had a truely one civilization power, France and England both could have been THE super power but spent too many resources fighting each other. So we had many semi-powerful nations instead of one big dog. 1492 Columbus' famous trip, 1991 Soviet Union collapses.

1776ish + 500 years.