Religion: If You Don't Believe In It Why Does It Bother You?
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Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
As to the op and other arguements that are taking place it is the people who belong to that religion and their actions that decide what to think of that religion. Hence proper atires for proper events. I myself am a christion but I dont force it upon others and I question devotions heavily. In the end you can never get rid of the people who do all the negative said things based on personal judgments and opinions. lol i just got called a Devil Worshiper by one of my customers for listning to Alesana lol
Asura.Patriclis said:
OK so i know the reference I'm about to make to refute what you're saying is going to seem, pretty stupid, but there's a lot of truth to be found in it: South Park. A while back there was a South park episode where religion was abolished in the future and instead people fought over science, and who's science was right. And yeah like i said, that's a little bazaar, but it makes it's point: People will find something to argue about. Unless you're in a situation where everyone agrees with everyone else, and everyone acts, thinks, looks the same, there will be constant dispute.
People do not need to stop arguing, they need to develop critical thinking. They need to stop basing their opinions on beliefs. They need to doubt what they're told and realize that their thinking constantly needs adjustment. It's not very hard. But trust me, religion doesn't help. And science, well... it's alright to make jokes about it, but science isn't a religion, it's just about looking for answers using a trial-and-error method, making conclusions after the phenomenons have been observed, finally drawing limited but verifiable conclusions that we call facts. It takes forever, but eventually, it leads to something real, unlike religion which makes up facts and then attempts to demonstrate those by any mean possible.
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Asura.Karianna said:
Caitsith.Blurr said:
that was kinda my point.. if my dog shits and pisses all over my rug, im not going to say his free will is responsible, and/or that hes bad for doing it. that would make no sense since IM the one that penned him up.. IM the one that set it all up to happen. how can you fault the dog ?
i disagree. if a dog shits and pisses all over your floor, its your fault for penning the dog up in the first place. same with a mother and son imo.. anything a mother could ever wanna blame a child for, its the mothers fault in the first place if she has a kid.
same goes for god.. if you make people, and you give them free will, but they dont end up doing what you wanted/intended them to do.. its your fault creating them that way in the first place.
dont confuse the ability to predict with the ability to control... you can predict a loving mother/father will produce a loving child, but you cant control it. we have about as much control over each other as we do the wind <.>
all i was saying is it makes no sense to give something free will, and then to say "no thats wrong, you do it like THIS". if an all powerful god wanted ***done a certain way, or disapproved of something, he could do it himself.
the fact that people can still do whatever the *** they wanna do should say something.. to ME it says, god is a crazy cracker, or there just is no singular all powerful deity creating/watching/controlling us.
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Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Exactly if you do not people who do should not bother you, despite the religion nuts. no one associates with the crazy one's they are wrong... and should not force ***on anyone.
So yeah no one is bothering you then shut up your post is moot, this thread is moot and can be avoided. Simple shut up, move on.
Exactly if you do not people who do should not bother you, despite the religion nuts. no one associates with the crazy one's they are wrong... and should not force ***on anyone.
So yeah no one is bothering you then shut up your post is moot, this thread is moot and can be avoided. Simple shut up, move on.
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just an idea to throw into the thinking since alot of people are doing so. ever thought about where we would be if it wasnt for religion(not just christianity). Everything we know today may have never existed if we hadnt done the things we did. Going Since the start of time, the wars/conquests to even the very traditions we practice today. Religion also gives hope to the weak its the beam that keeps most the world standing. I guess an example would be a person bieng intrested with a group of butterflys but HATES a species of flowers so he makes a chemical to kill the flowers. There goes the food eventually there goes the butterfly which then kills other plants that depended on the butter fly to transfer the pollin and so on and so on. pretty crappy example but im thinking on the fly lol (which i mind you im not good at (._. ) )
Asura.Ludoggy said:
It seems to me that Atheists like to shove their beliefs in my face more often then someone belonging to a religion.
Maybe its because I dont live right next to a bunch of Jehovah witnesses.
Or maybe religious people just arent *** naturally like all these atheists I meet.
Maybe its because I dont live right next to a bunch of Jehovah witnesses.
Or maybe religious people just arent *** naturally like all these atheists I meet.
Odd, I experience the exact opposite.. I've never seen an Atheist actually get into it with a Christian, unless said Christian started the entire thing. I'm Atheist, and I know plenty of them.. We just keep our mouths shut and go on about our day, we don't purposely go out of our way to start religious debates.
However the second a Christian finds out I or any other person is Atheist, they begin their assault immediately... and that's where the whole debate takes over, because we won't just back down and have our ears talked off about nonsense. Problem is, anytime you try to counter with a logical argument they can't possibly have an answer to, they revert back to throwing out vague general answers (it's God's will, comes to mind)
I live in Texas though, so maybe that has something to do with it.. I have a very strict rule of don't bother me, and I won't bother you. That is to say, you don't start the religious debate, and neither will I, you're entitled to your belief and I'm entitled to mine (or lack of one). I assure you, I do not need to be saved, and I've also read the Bible (multiple times, you're not going to quote anything from the Bible I haven't already read, so don't bother trying), and was even a Christian for the early part of my life, my Atheism wasn't brought on by rebelling from my parents or other family members or anyone.. I opened my eyes and started questioning things that didn't make sense, there are just too many inconsistencies for me to take religion seriously.
EDIT: As George Carlin said "I want you to know something, and I sincerely mean this, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried, I really REALLY tried.. I tried to believe that there is a God who created us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live the more you look around, the more you realize.. something is fuuucked up."
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Just like refusing to choose is a choice, refusing to believe into something is another kind of belief (you believe it don't exist).
Carbuncle.Zitale said:
Just like refusing to choose is a choice, refusing to believe into something is another kind of belief (you believe it don't exist).
Elitist... FFXI's got em, and so does earth, MFer's...
Believe or dont believe its a choice
if someone is forcing something on ya then sure tell em to gtfo.
Other then that im Pissed at people who judge other people religion and dont understand a single thing about it, Islam comes up so many times in that.
It doesnt affect you at all but you love putting your nose in it all the time. People are doing Just like Other religion dudes and forcing their Ideals on the religion and people, so yea.
Its not the religion I say. Its people that ruin everything
if someone is forcing something on ya then sure tell em to gtfo.
Other then that im Pissed at people who judge other people religion and dont understand a single thing about it, Islam comes up so many times in that.
It doesnt affect you at all but you love putting your nose in it all the time. People are doing Just like Other religion dudes and forcing their Ideals on the religion and people, so yea.
Its not the religion I say. Its people that ruin everything
Ramuh.Thunderz said:
Believe or dont believe its a choice
~~~~
Its not the religion I say. Its people that ruin everything
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Its not the religion I say. Its people that ruin everything
Believing isn't a choice. The second point I agree 150% on
It's not the religion... it's the person.
Same as the people on FFXI who sit around judging gear and forcing ideas about gameplay on them.
I read a book a few years back (struggling to remember the name/author), but the author was an Athiest who set out to prove christianity wrong and write a book about it, but ended up becoming a christian himself in the process.
As an athiest he was forcing his beliefs down peoples throats, and now as a christian he is doing the same thing, just with different beliefs. It's just the kind of person he is.
***On a side note, as mentioned earlier, I think it's funny how some people on here are saying for example "You shouldn't force religion, or lack of religion on anyone, it's none of your business what they do, it has no effect on you" yet they are the same people that force ideas and judge how people play on FFXI. Gotta love it huh? (btw, not pointed towards anyone in particular here, just speaking in general)
Same as the people on FFXI who sit around judging gear and forcing ideas about gameplay on them.
I read a book a few years back (struggling to remember the name/author), but the author was an Athiest who set out to prove christianity wrong and write a book about it, but ended up becoming a christian himself in the process.
As an athiest he was forcing his beliefs down peoples throats, and now as a christian he is doing the same thing, just with different beliefs. It's just the kind of person he is.
***On a side note, as mentioned earlier, I think it's funny how some people on here are saying for example "You shouldn't force religion, or lack of religion on anyone, it's none of your business what they do, it has no effect on you" yet they are the same people that force ideas and judge how people play on FFXI. Gotta love it huh? (btw, not pointed towards anyone in particular here, just speaking in general)
believing isnt a choice? O_O
If people dont belive in a religion then they SHOULDNT be bothered if they are then they do have one
Carbuncle.Zitale said:
Just like refusing to choose is a choice, refusing to believe into something is another kind of belief (you believe it don't exist).
say wut?
What makes christians (for example) believing that a man called noah built an ark to rescue EVERY species of animal on the planet is any more real than some guy called jack traded a cow for some magic beans which sprouted a huge beanstalk that reached up into the clouds owned by a giant that had a nose so powerful he could tell what country you were from by somehow smelling your blood even though you dont have any cuts - and in said castle there was a goose that could lay golden eggs and a harp that played music all by itself.
Really - tell me what makes one story any more real than the other?
Atheists tend to discount anything considered stupid unless evidence can be presented to back it up. Its called the "Scientific Method".
Shiva.Xellith said:
Carbuncle.Zitale said:
Just like refusing to choose is a choice, refusing to believe into something is another kind of belief (you believe it don't exist).
say wut?
What makes christians (for example) believing that a man called noah built an ark to rescue EVERY species of animal on the planet is any more real than some guy called jack traded a cow for some magic beans which sprouted a huge beanstalk that reached up into the clouds owned by a giant that had a nose so powerful he could tell what country you were from by somehow smelling your blood even though you dont have any cuts - and in said castle there was a goose that could lay golden eggs and a harp that played music all by itself.
Really - tell me what makes one story any more real than the other?
Atheists tend to discount anything considered stupid unless evidence can be presented to back it up. Its called the "Scientific Method".
No one ever said you couldn't be a follower of the almighty children stories...
Who's right is it to impose personal beliefs on anyone? Atheist and christians both seem to not understand this. This thread is full of irony.
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Its funny how people say Christans attack and force there opinion on people, when well lets just look at the forums. How many Atheists are the ops in these threads, How many start out very hostile. It's easy to point the finger in every direction but you own huh.
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Gilgamesh.Andras said:
believing isnt a choice? O_O
I am in general a live and let live person, I do not force my beliefs on others and do not like them forced on me but a couple things did stand out to me while browsing threw this thread.
And the fact you associate with them justifies their very existence. Same as the billion moderate Muslims justify the killings even if they're peaceful by not resigning and protesting. if it was a political party, you'd resign. but a religion, you stay[/quote]
So if the group that i share my beliefs with even if the group as a whole does not condone the actions of one nut, i am condoning them and their actions because they claim to be a member of said group in some way shape form or fashion? One bad apple spoils it for everyone for as long as that system of thinking or believing exists?
so the same can be said for any believer or non-believer or any group religious or not?
People do not need to stop arguing, they need to develop critical thinking. They need to stop basing their opinions on beliefs. They need to doubt what they're told and realize that their thinking constantly needs adjustment. It's not very hard.[/quote]
To me this would sound just like someone from another group telling me what do "believe" in and how to do it.
Personally i am a creationist. But i do believe in evolution as well, there is too much evidence before our eyes to think that it is not possible. Some changes can be seen with in a single species with in a matter of a couple generations. I have never seen in the bible where it said that an organism is incapable of change over time.
And the fact you associate with them justifies their very existence. Same as the billion moderate Muslims justify the killings even if they're peaceful by not resigning and protesting. if it was a political party, you'd resign. but a religion, you stay[/quote]
So if the group that i share my beliefs with even if the group as a whole does not condone the actions of one nut, i am condoning them and their actions because they claim to be a member of said group in some way shape form or fashion? One bad apple spoils it for everyone for as long as that system of thinking or believing exists?
so the same can be said for any believer or non-believer or any group religious or not?
People do not need to stop arguing, they need to develop critical thinking. They need to stop basing their opinions on beliefs. They need to doubt what they're told and realize that their thinking constantly needs adjustment. It's not very hard.[/quote]
To me this would sound just like someone from another group telling me what do "believe" in and how to do it.
Personally i am a creationist. But i do believe in evolution as well, there is too much evidence before our eyes to think that it is not possible. Some changes can be seen with in a single species with in a matter of a couple generations. I have never seen in the bible where it said that an organism is incapable of change over time.
Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra said:
Gilgamesh.Andras said:
believing isnt a choice? O_O
Its a choice >.>
So, I have a question.
Didnt greek mythology (for example) also used to be a religion, until people abandon it?
How long will it take til christianity will become the christian mythology?
Didnt greek mythology (for example) also used to be a religion, until people abandon it?
How long will it take til christianity will become the christian mythology?
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Carbuncle.Xandor said:
So, I have a question.
Didnt greek mythology (for example) also used to be a religion, until people abandon it?
How long will it take til christianity will become the chritian mythology?
Didnt greek mythology (for example) also used to be a religion, until people abandon it?
How long will it take til christianity will become the chritian mythology?
Who knows, might not happen, it might happen.
The world is a funny place.
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Gilgamesh.Andras said:
Carbuncle.Xandor said:
So, I have a question.
Didnt greek mythology (for example) also used to be a religion, until people abandon it?
How long will it take til christianity will become the chritian mythology?
Didnt greek mythology (for example) also used to be a religion, until people abandon it?
How long will it take til christianity will become the chritian mythology?
Who knows, might not happen, it might happen.
The world is a funny place.
I can't wait for that time to come to pass, but I only fear what crazy wacky religion(s) might follow.
Renali21 said:
Who's right is it to impose personal beliefs on anyone? Atheist and christians both seem to not understand this. This thread is full of irony.
Beliefs are ok if they havent already been proven to be wrong. Otherwise you are just being ignorant.
The church once said the world was flat. They only allowed it to become "fact" since it didnt go against the bible. If the world being flat would have been written in the bible then this piece of false information would have been spread as truth for much longer.
If only religious people who actually "think".
hmm, in sweden we used to believe in Norse paganism. But as we got smarter we understood that thunder isnt some guy riding on a goat in the sky swinging a huge hammer to make thunder.
Atleast we were smart enough to understand this (even though chritianity was forced upon us)
Atleast we were smart enough to understand this (even though chritianity was forced upon us)
Carbuncle.Zanno said:
hmm, in sweden we used to believe in Norse paganism. But as we got smarter we understood that thunder isnt some guy riding on a goat in the sky swinging a huge hammer to make thunder.
Atleast we were smart enough to understand this (even though chritianity was forced upon us)
Atleast we were smart enough to understand this (even though chritianity was forced upon us)
That dude with the lightning was me, sorry for all the loud thunderstorms and stuff:P
But yeah, this.
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Wow, this is a fast-growing thread. Reading through it has been thought-provoking, too. Well, I'll weigh in...
Being an atheist who used to be a christian, I admit I don't think too much of religion. But I've tried to live up to the ideal of "live and let live." As long as you're not calling me evil or telling me I'm going to hell or doing something harmful, I think you have the right to believe whatever you find compelling.
Yet more and more I see a lot of fellow atheists who go out of their way to do a sort of "anti-preaching," if you get what I mean. The OP could be an example of that. Generally, I prefer a more reactionary, defensive approach, where one stands up against intolerance and ignorance as it arises (and I'm not implying that religious people are intolerant or ignorant as a whole, I am simply saying that some are and they need to be opposed).
The other approach is to actively speak out against religion. This isn't something I'm comfortable with personally because it's exactly what I hate when religious people do it. However, for those who feel that religion really is an impediment to human progress, there is something to the idea of actively spreading the ideology and attacking old ideas. For those who view it as an important kind of activism, it's hard to be an activist without being "active."
The flipside of that, however, is that attacking the beliefs of others is naturally going to cause them to react, and then you've got more animosity, more mistrust, and more rhetoric as the religious in turn see themselves as the persecuted.
I'm not really making excuses or even much of a point. Just my take on a messy situation. But for those who are sick of the debates... too bad, because they're not going to end any time soon.
Being an atheist who used to be a christian, I admit I don't think too much of religion. But I've tried to live up to the ideal of "live and let live." As long as you're not calling me evil or telling me I'm going to hell or doing something harmful, I think you have the right to believe whatever you find compelling.
Yet more and more I see a lot of fellow atheists who go out of their way to do a sort of "anti-preaching," if you get what I mean. The OP could be an example of that. Generally, I prefer a more reactionary, defensive approach, where one stands up against intolerance and ignorance as it arises (and I'm not implying that religious people are intolerant or ignorant as a whole, I am simply saying that some are and they need to be opposed).
The other approach is to actively speak out against religion. This isn't something I'm comfortable with personally because it's exactly what I hate when religious people do it. However, for those who feel that religion really is an impediment to human progress, there is something to the idea of actively spreading the ideology and attacking old ideas. For those who view it as an important kind of activism, it's hard to be an activist without being "active."
The flipside of that, however, is that attacking the beliefs of others is naturally going to cause them to react, and then you've got more animosity, more mistrust, and more rhetoric as the religious in turn see themselves as the persecuted.
I'm not really making excuses or even much of a point. Just my take on a messy situation. But for those who are sick of the debates... too bad, because they're not going to end any time soon.
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