Atheists Are Not Suicide Bombers.

God can be an idea though. It doesn't have to be an all powerful, omnipresent father-figure watching his children play in kind of a creepy "distant but always wanting to touch them" sort of way...

Humans have a drive to explain things, even the unexplainable. The difference between Scientific pursuit and religious pursuit, is Science will question itself, where religion will allow itself to stagnate. Ashua is approaching the problem the wrong way. Nobody popped into thought one day and say "How was the universe created" It worked itself down in a process. If you try and answer the hardest question first, you'll get nowhere. Anyway The term "God" is an arbitrary variable, it's the solution that matters, and we are possibly thousands of years from even being able to fathom an answer.

On the other hand, I can come out and say "Why can't matter be infinite" it's just as logical as saying "IT HAD TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE" because really, you aren't writing the rules. Nothing has to do anything because someone says so. Honestly, thinking of the Universe as infinite gives me more hope than any god.

This is exactly why I have trouble grasping the idea that life, existance, everything didn't at least get a little push in this direction from somewhere. XD

But whatever, I'm just glad it happened so we could discuss Garfield <3

Base theory of energy. Can neither be destroyed nor created, yet can be transmuted. The energy we have today is the same energy we had before the Big Bang. However, as shown during recent tests at CERN and other supercollider sites, matter (not energy) can be created from nothing. That's right. Matter from nothing but black, empty, nothingness. Add that to the research done in spontaneous amino acid/protein formation under ammonium/nitrate environments and extreme pressure... And bam! over billions upon billions of years, you have a recipe for possibility.

We're much farther along in proving that we came from random happenstance than any other theories out there currently.

Add in the fact that we are now creating new types of matter that do not exist in nature and have profound effects on it's environ? Looks like we're getting closer to figuring things out all the time.

Check the second word of your post. "Theories" are the fundamental doctrine of atheist "church". From Base Theory of Energy to the teaching of the high prophet Charles Darwin (Peace be upon him) theories are theories. They are called theory for a reason. I'd prefer to stick to "laws." Albert Einstein believed in a God(s). He wasn't a religious man and didn't cite any known god in particular. I don't know why I even cited that as it is a straw man of my own.

Anyways, so your argument is still a dead end. (That might sound cocky dont take it that way) What I mean is, it goes no where. So if matter can be made from "nothing" then so can God.

You know what the biggest hole in what you're saying is?

"However, as shown during recent tests at CERN and other supercollider sites, matter (not energy) can be created from nothing. That's right."

So if it can be "CREATED" from 'nothing' by the hand of men in white lab coats, wouldn't you say that those men were acting as a "god agent" in that they CREATED it with a logical mind?

(I genuinely do appreciate that you're attempting to make honest points.)

I understand where you're going. And I was trying to play devils advocate, substituting scientists and a supercollider for eons of time and vast empty space. What we can do in moments would take far longer in the vacuum of nothingness, but, it could be done. And could be done without intervention, surely. This all falls on chance and the endless time to repeat that action over and over until an aberration occurs.

Theories are in fact, just theory, I agree. However, theories usually have some fact backing them up. Usually. Most religions are based on hearsay. Which is not fact. We simply have words to back up these statements. There are no repeatable tests that we can perform to verify the validity of these arguments. We must rely on "Faith". And in fact, most religious arguments go out of the way to defend their lack of proof. And demonize those that would question it.

When you don't know the answer to something, you question it. When someone tells you something that doesn't quite "fit", you question it. If you're punished for trying to find proof of a statement, I'd lean towards the original statement being very flawed.

But, at the same time, I'm not going to come down on you like the proverbial hammer if you believe something besides what I do. It's your right and opinion, and really, unless you're beating me about the head and face with your ideals, they don't hurt me :)

there really isn't though. they say church is the home of god... ***'s never home though

Absolutely question all things. I don't think anyone should continue to live in a belief (or lack thereof) if they can find irrefutable proof that it is a lie. "Beliefs" should always be tempered in a crucible of fire to see if they hold shape or bend under the trial.

caps're for srs bzns

When you've been playing this game long enough, you'll believe anything can "spawn" out of thin air at any given moment.

If you all insist on following the spirit of this ridiculous OP fine…

Based on the original premise of this ignorant child that keeps making these posts is that religion and religious belief is a major source of death and destruction over against atheistic thought. In terms of sheer body counts…

Working estimates (google them for yourselves) are that the total body count of all the crusades ended up somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million, but lets double that lets say it was 20 million have been killed by monotheism. Let’s also toss in an additional 20 million killed by polytheistic/animistic religions etc. over the years. Heck for fun lets double it all let’s say 80 million people.

Now let’s look at some atheistic thought regimes throughout history. Hitler and his essentially atheistic view of things (sans a bit of odd occultism) killed conservatively 11 million people. Mao Zedong (a real favorite in the social circles of the White House these days) is responsible by policy and action for the death of 50-70 million people with his fiercely atheistic governance. Pol Pot, a real charming lad, by his atheistic communist ideals whacked about 1-2.5 million Cambodians. Well, there have been more but those are the really fun ones by numbers. They didn’t strap on any bombs, but their ideas did get millions of bodies pilled up…

Well, if we inflate the numbers for religious people through the thousands of years that religion was in vogue, and conservatively examine the few decades atheism has been popular, religion wins in the body count, but not by much.

Belleta wins, now lets talk about Garfield…..

ha ha i love people who don't understand the concept of dimensions or sub-atomic matter

"It is possible to conceive of generation only if it is possible to conceive of nothing.

Thinking of nothing, however, is something we cannot do, if at any rate the above is correct. For that principle holds that we can think only of what exists, of what is, then, something or other; nothing, though, is, well, nothing. Nothing does not exist. So, we cannot think of genuine generation" (Parminedes).

It was in relation to

I assure you that I can grasp the concept of "dimensions" and sub-atomic matter. People are just so happy and willing to attribute that which they cannot yet "measure" or "see" or understand as "nothing".

It cannot be "nothing" if there's "STUFF" there, IS IT THAT HARD TO GRASP??????????????????????????????????

whatever time2sleep

Yup. Not only are you right about this, but the original poster's argument is apples and oranges.
Just because people use religion as an excuse to kill one another (despite most religions prohibiting this), doesnt mean that that God(s) don't exist. Murder and injustice in the name of religion does not equate to that religion and it's diety being false.

To the thread starter:

Take the Torah of Judiasm. This is where the laws prohibiting homosexuality, consumption of pork, the ten commandments, sabbath observation, etc etc etc come from.
Just because you don't agree with the religion's "laws" doesn't automatically rule out the 'reality' of that religion's God. If you don't believe in any form of god then at least have a clinical logic based rationale and not some agenda driven rejection.

And always remember, whether it be the crusades or the holocaust... It wasn't God doing it, but disgusting human beings. If you justify your atheism because of the laws of the religion of an "unjust god" AND you happen to be a humanist then lol@you. If anything, mankind is to blame. Religion is a convenient excuse.

I could hand you a hammer. The hammer's purpose is to build. Now, if some corrupt men use the hammer contrary to it's intended use to destroy instead of build, do you blame the hammer or the hand that drives it? Wars are never driven by religion. That's just a front.

http://thewhiplashing.blogspot.com/2009/11/harmony-explanation-of-unity-between.html#more

Interesting read if anyone cares to read it, although I will warn you beforehand, it is a HUGE article, but, as I mentioned, it is interesting. Not saying it's right or wrong, just putting it out there if anyone cares to read it.

I went out to eat and missed some stuffs. But anyways, yeah... so Garfield. Did you guys know that Odie was not originally John's dog? But it was that of his roommate and longtime friend who simply vanished one day? Leaving Odie in the sole care of John. I just read that on the Garfield Wiki. Amazing stuff. Also, Garfield was a stud and had a few girl cats throughout the years. I personally only knew of Arlene.

I knew that Odie had belonged to Lyman, but I didn't know he had more girlfriends than Arlene. That's cools :D

It surprises me how ignorant some people are on History.

~Ashura~
~Hrolandus~

Hitler Was A Christian~

"Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest."

Source~> http://nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

Pol Pot Was A Buddhist~

Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge were composed of Buddhists and Pol Pot himself was a communist and Theravada Buddhist. Pol Pot studied at a Buddhist monastery (1 year) and then later at a Catholic school (8 years). As for “Collège Preah Sihanouk” and “Lycée Sisowath” I don’t know if they were secular or Buddhist oriented education institutions. Cambodia’s communism was influenced by Theravada Buddhism (the belief system of 95% of the Khmer people) and its teaching to renunciation of the material world as Pol Pot with his followers organized perfectly by smashing cars and modern industrial equipment with hammers.

Pol Pot’s Education: 1934 – 1935 Buddhist monastery Wat Botum Vaddei in Phnom Penh 1935 – 1943 Catholic school in Phnom Penh École Miche 1943 – 1947 Collège Preah Sihanouk at Kampong Cham 1947 – 1948 Lycée Sisowath in Phnom Penh 1948 – 1949 Technical school in Phnom Penh 1949 – 1952 École Francaise de radio-électricité

Yeah, had some tan/cream colored cat for almost 3 seasons in the tv series... granted that's not the comic strip, but still! :O

This thread is no longer about religion! Garfield spam go! :O

I have to make sure everyone is telling the truth first :P

Ok... Garfield!

Hurray! Garfield!

So, who's your favorite Garfield character and why? /grabs popcorn

Your ignorance truly astounds me. So now, just to clarify, it appears that you are grouping the billions (yes billions) of Christians and/or Buddhists that have lived throughout history and judging them by the actions of two people? And on top of this, in your extreme narrow-mindedness, you are using these two examples as reason to justify that theism is wrong?

Wow, just wow. Please, step away from the computer and leave Wikipedia alone.

Do you have ADD? I never accused billions of christians for what these people did. I blame the religion.

A religion that has verses such as these:

Exodus 35:2 ~> God says we should kill everyone who works on the Sabbath day.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ~> God says to kill disobedient teenagers.

Leviticus 20:13 ~> Gods says to kill Homosexuals.

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 ~> God say to kill girls who are not virgins at the time of marriage.

Just because you work on Sunday, you should die? That is crazy.

Go ahead and rationalize this just like any other bible thumper would :)

But in the next breath, don't tell me to take the bible literally.

The bible is full of hate, murdering, and slavery. Don't say it doesn't influence hate and violence. That is insane.

So is your face, doesnt mean we go angry mob and kill you.
stfu and stop bumping your thread.

Exposing religion is dangerous :)

So does MTV, but I don't see you calling for the banning of that either.

I am an outspoken atheist, maybe a little too outspoken, but I have thought long and hard about this.

I have religious people ask me all of the time "Why do you attack us for thinking our life has meaning?"

Which is so arrogant... You think my life doesn't have meaning?

It is the only thing I really have, and one day we're all going to die and no longer exist. Of course, this is a scary thought. It absolutely scares the hell out of me... I can not fathom not existing, just as I can't imagine an afterlife. It's a disturbing thing to think about, and I do understand why people want to believe in an all powerful god who will save you when you die. Believe me, I do, and I wish I could believe the same crap. But I'm a realist. I don't belittle the life I have on Earth, because one day I'm going to heaven and everything will be perfect. I cherish every day that I am alive, because one day I will not exist.

"Johnny died :) But he's going to heaven. He'll have a much better life than we have"

I understand, it makes you feel better about death and destruction, but why belittle your life and claim that my life has no meaning? Yet, another contradiction. Although, not openly admitted.

Sure, the way I believe... Johnny's death will be harder on me, because I believe Johnny will no longer exist, and he will not have a better life in heaven. But I don't live a life of lies, and I don't belittle my own life to make me feel better.

I'm not a fan of commercial television.