Saint Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274). Aquinas was the architect of the most comprehensive theological structure of the Roman Catholic Church, the Summa Theologica. It has long been recognized as the "official" statement of orthodox Christian beliefs by many theologians. Aquinas borrowed many of his arguments from Aristotle, as can be seen in his "five ways" of demonstrating God's existence.
Maybe you think I am extreme, but think about it. Think about religion on a less dramatic scale of destruction. What has religion taken from you?
Ok, I'll play this game of yours.
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Religion has teken away our fundamental rights to freedom.
No, not really. I feel quite free, actually.
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Religion has taken aaway our rights to choice.
No, I chose to follow one religion and not the other. That was my choice. No one made it for me.
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And in some parts of the world, to even show our faces.
That's their choice. There are plenty of Muslims who practice Islam and show their faces. That doesn't make them any less Muslim.
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Religion demands our blind trust
No it doesn't. Religion doesn't demand anything. You choose how much of yourself and your time to give.
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Religion demands our slavish unquestioning devotion to its rules and rituals
Again, you are terribly misinformed, probably from this fantasy you have of being molested so you can have an actual reason to hate religion.
Religion itself doesn't demand a damn thing. It's the people involved that demand ***. But I don't pray to people. I pray to my deity of choice. They don't demand anything from me.
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It also demands our hard earned cash!
You're confusing people with spirit again.
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What have you gotten in return?
Well, let's see.
I've gotten peace of mind believing there's something greater beyond death. I've got wonderful friends whom I can have adult conversations with about the subject. I've got a sense of calmness after I pray/meditate. I feel comfortable in my own skin, after many years of not feeling that way.
Religion helped me in all this. What right do you have to bash me? I respect the fact you don't believe anything exists outside of your little bubble. Why can't you respect me?
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Have you gotten peace, at home, or in the world?
Why yes, yes I have. I have peace in my home, despite the fact I live with people of other religions. We coexist, despite our differences. That's a lot more than you can say.
I'm not responsible for the whole world, however. I'm only responsible for my own home.
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End to hunger?
No, but then again, I didn't realize the world had to be Happy Land 24/7 as proof of religion.
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End to war, racism and disease?
It's funny you bring up intolerance such as racism, yet you are intolerant yourself. Hm...hypocrite much? No. War, racism and disease have not ended. I didn't realize it had to to be tangible proof that religion exists.
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Religion grows more aggressive, and it is the ultimate hypocrite.
The only hypocrite I see are people who want to regulate religion. I live a peaceful existence. I never killed anyone, I never stolen from anyone. The most I do is mouth off to people. I'm not perfect, who is?
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Religion claims to be all about peace and love and tolerance.
Ahh....how terribly misinformed you are. There is no religion out there without their demons. Every religion has skeletons in the closet. While the ultimate goal IS peace, every level headed person knows peace will never be achieved.
Funny, you mention tolerance yet again, because you are the most intolerant *** I've ever come across.
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But deep down inside... it's all about:
Prejudice~Superiority~Hatred~and destruction to others.
And so are you. You're no different than the thing you claim to hate and be crusading against.
Show me proof that he doesn't exist? You saying he doesn't, isn't proving he doesn't. Its just proving you're an idiot.
You asking for proof of something that is unprovable is just as dumb.
But, Bulleta asking for proof that it doesn't exist, isn't? How does that work?
Because you don't beleive everything that hasn't been absolutely proven to be not true. As such you are picking and chosing which is dumb. Either believe things because they are proven to be true or believe everything until proven untrue.
First of all, I was making fun of Bulleta's arguement. And, spinning it around on him. I Do not believe in God. I don't understand what you are trying to prove there? Some kind of assumption because I'm trying to defend something that you dont believe in? What is wrong with spinning the arguement around? OP is making a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE arguement. If proof cant be made that he doesn't exist (Which, is impossible apparently) But, proof cant be made that he does exist (Which is impossible again) And, I'm the one who is dumb? You're as bad as the OP.
Like I give a ***what you believe. What I'm trying to prove is that going backwards from normal logic and instead of proving things demanding things be unproven hypocritical unless you do it all the way. If you (dis)believe in something that can be proven and some that can't then you can't really use the well you can't prove otherwise argument. While were at it your worst than the OP!
YOUR ACTUALLY FORCING THEM ON YOURSELF BY BEING HERE SO LONG.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I SAY.
DON'T *** READ IT..
Actually, stating that religion should be regulated IS forcing your beliefs on us.
If you don't like our religions, don't talk to us.
But I do suggest you DO read some religious texts so you realize what the *** you're actually talking about. I'm going to take a guess and say you've never read any sort of religious texts in your life.
If you want to be the all powerful reality-scientist, at least research your claims.
Hmm. How many people that have posted in this thread can actually even understand the metaphysical nature of the discussion of the existence of God? If you can, I'd like to witness the train wreck of you trying.
This thread while posing as the above is really the below.
People who go apeshit for religion/God = butthurt idiots who are looking for a way to judge other idiots.
People who go apeshit against religion/God = butthurt idiots who are looking for a way to judge other idiots.
Here is pretty much the strat for both sides here. Get on interwebs -> scream about religion -> jack off to your own ignorance -> ??? -> profit.
People who go apeshit for religion/God = butthurt idiots who are looking for a way to judge other idiots.
I'm not a "butthurt idiot looking for a way to judge others." I'm simply stating that no one has the right to tell me what I believe or disbelieve. If you're an Atheist, cool. I don't really care what you are. But don't sit there and tell me you're right and I'm wrong, because I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong and I'm right.
If I choose to "waste my time" as you Atheists like to say, that's my *** business. What right do you have to tell me I'm not allowed to do that? Because that's exactly what Bulleta is suggesting, and quite frankly, out of ALL the Atheists on this thread, she's the most hateful, spiteful, and hypocritical.
YOUR ACTUALLY FORCING THEM ON YOURSELF BY BEING HERE SO LONG.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I SAY.
DON'T *** READ IT..
Actually, stating that religion should be regulated IS forcing your beliefs on us.
If you don't like our religions, don't talk to us.
But I do suggest you DO read some religious texts so you realize what the *** you're actually talking about. I'm going to take a guess and say you've never read any sort of religious texts in your life.
If you want to be the all powerful reality-scientist, at least research your claims.
I have read a lot of religious texts. Like I said, i was born catholic.
Omfg, so ur right and im wrong automatically in ur mind, u are one piece of... I wont go much further than that, but still, saying that i have a right to an opinion and then saying its wrong isnt exactly right.
Grew up, became an ignorant piece of crap... same thing...
if you define ignorant peice of crap as "Not believing in men living in whales, invisible men living in the sky, virgin births, feeding millions with a slice of bread, and so on... Then yes, I am an ignorant peice of crap :)
I have read a lot of religious texts. Like I said, i was born catholic.
But Something happened... I grew up o.o
Wow, so now you're calling me childish because I have a belief in a higher spirit and I don't worship science?
And you want to control ME? Answer the question I've asked numerous times, and you've ignored me: What have I done to you to deserve your persecution. Perhaps you can't think of a valid response because I haven't done anything?
Think carefully now. Remember, you're an all powerful scientist-genius!
I have read a lot of religious texts. Like I said, i was born catholic.
But Something happened... I grew up o.o
Wow, so now you're calling me childish because I have a belief in a higher spirit and I don't worship science?
And you want to control ME? Answer the question I've asked numerous times, and you've ignored me: What have I done to you to deserve your persecution. Perhaps you can't think of a valid response because I haven't done anything?
Think carefully now. Remember, you're an all powerful scientist-genius!
Good job, you sound a lot smarter than you really are ~.^
When have I persecuted you?
I didn't force you to Click and Read my thread :P
You did it because you <3 Bulleta :)
I find it amusing that non-religious people are even arguing that religion is a lie. It doesn't need to be proved. It's those religious leaders who should be arguing desperately to justify the existence of their cults. Even were you to believe in the existence of a supreme being, why the hell would you need to be part of a GROUP that tells you how... Huh?! >.>
Edit: Here, have fun picking one (or making one up, if you're into obscure money-making schemes), but be careful, it may be the wrong one, because according to every single religious group, there is only ONE that is the right way to worship God!
A lot of the people in this world believe we need to regulate drugs and guns to make this a safer place. I have a different insight. I think if you're going to regulate one thing that has the most potential to cause death and destruction, it should be religion. Religion is dangerous, and I don't say this out of bitterness. I was raised catholic. I was never molested, but.. Meh i'm a little insulted lol. I was attractive, so hey it was their loss.
What I have against religion is... They start you when you are so defensless. I was 3 years old when they started pumping this BS into my head. I believed in Santa Clause and the Fairy Godmother, ofcourse I believed in virgin birth, a guy that lived in a whale, and a woman came from a rib. But then, something very important happened to me that made me doubt all of it. I graduated the 6th grade :)
What is so hard about saying "I don't know" !?
Ofcourse there are questions that plaque all of us...
How did we get here?
What happens when we die?
Is there a heaven?
Am I on the list?
Who let the dogs out?
So why would you believe some other human being (Who's brain "I promise you is no bigger or better than your own") when he tells you he knows what happens when you die?
"Don't masturbate now, or you won't get to hang out with Jesus in heaven! How do I know!? I've got a pointy hat! I have a hat, and a robe, I have smoke and a wand!"... It's so gay.
Every Sunday is like a pageant with the costumes, the wands, the goblets, the smoke, and the men kneeling down in front of other men with their mouths open.. Nothing gay about that!
Religion, easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there is an invisible man living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things He does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and anguish, where he will send you to live to burn, and suffer, and choke, and scream, and cry forever and ever untill the end of time. BuT He LoVeS YoU <3 <3 <3 <3
He loves you and he always needs MONEY! He's all powerful, all perfect, all knowing, and all wise, but somehow he just can't handle money o.O!! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more $$$$$ Talk about a good bullshit story.. Holyshit!
This is Sincere: When it came to believing in god, I really tried. I wanted to believe that there was a god who created us in his own image, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I tried, but the longer you live, the more you look around, and the more you realize that something is ????d up:
(War Disease Death Destruction Hunger Filth Poverty Torture Crime)
This is not good work. If this is the best god can do, I am not impressed. A results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. These are the results you would expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.
Between you and me... In any feasibly ran universe, this guy would have been out on his all powerful ass a long time ago. I say guy, because if there really is a god he has to be a man. No woman could or would ever ???? things up like this ^.^
If there is a god, I think that most reasonable people would agree that he is atleast incompetent, and maybe.. Just maybe.. He doesn't give a shit. Which I admire in a person, and it would explain a lot of these bad results. So instead of being just another mindless-religious robot, mindlessly.. Aimlessly.. Blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompitent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to find something else to worship. Something I could actually count on...
I immidiatly thought of the sun. Overnight, just like that. I became a sun worshipper, but not overnight because you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning....
Several reasons...
First of all, I can see the sun. (Unlike a few other gods I know). I'm big on that, if I can see something it kind of helps the credibility. So everyday I can see the sun as it gives me everything I need: Light, Heat, Food, Flowers in the Park, Reflections in the Lake, the occasional skin cancer but hey.. Atleast there are no crucifixions and setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
Sun worshipping is simple. There are no mysteries, no miracles, no pageantry, noone asks for money, no songs to learn, and we don't have a building we gather together in once a week to compare clothing.
Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? Its god's will~? It will be done. Fine, but if it's god's will, he is going to do what he wants to anyway... Why the hell pray for it in the first place? Couldn't you just skip the paying, and just go straight to god's will?
I do believe prayers are answered though.. Maybe at a 50% rate! Half the time I get what I want. Half of the time I don't. Same as the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the wishing well, the rabbit's foot, the mojo man, same as the voodoo lady that tells you fortune by squeezing a goat's testicle. It's all the same.. 50/50... So just pick your superstition, make a wish, and sit back and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to the bible for moral lessons, and literary qualities... I'll suggest a few other stories for you... You might want to look at:
~The Three Little Pigs (It has a nice happy ending)
~Little Red Riding Hood (Although it has that X-rated part where the wolf actually eats the grandmother)
~Humpty Dumpty (All the king's horses, and all the king's men couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again. That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God.)
