If Horizon Had A $1 Monthly Fee

- making another jobs/MLs
- Dynamis D for points/Crystals and/or Detritus (self-upgrade or gils)
- Farming REMAs
- Omen (Detritus
- Ambuscade
- Monthly campaigns (many people do NNI, Voidwatch, Delve or Merit BCNMs for gils/self-upgrade)
- Minor things like getting monthly clears for Psyche/Vouchers

If you are in a spot where you have 15+ fully geared jobs and you did all Odyssey and just do Sortie fun you can still do:

- Various fun/challenging approaches to 100+ different fights/events
- help other

because I hope you don't only play this game to get few pixels, but at least to also use them in various funny ways or to simply enjoy gameplay/immersion right? right?

Make a new char.

Whats the difference between doing it on Retail or on a 75-era server?

Oh, its free on the 75-era server.

Which is exactly why this other content isn't really relevant in a meaningful way. The number of people starting from scratch on retail is close to 0 and the number of current players who haven't completely done 95% of what you listed is still very low. The vast majority of people playing retail have been doing so for years.

Its not relevant to which server people would play on, sure. It's relevant to the argument going on though.

-Horizon is better than retail because more people are not yet capped and there is less cheating.

-Horizon is better than retail because 75 era is inherently better in some way.

These are different statements, and while the first is subjective and can be true for some people, the second is never true.

SE is never going to clean up retail, so it probably doesn't matter. I personally think that the biggest flaw with retail is SE's management though, not their content design.

Tell me you don't play retail without telling me you don't play retail.

There are dozens of players in my linkshell who started/reactivated their characters in the last 3 months.

For all the talk about a 'classic XI' by SE that they'll never do, I'd love to see a new identical retail server with mandatory fresh start, no server transfers, and heavy handed policing. They'll still never do it, because it'd be admitting how much they let the existing servers get away from them, but at least it's feasible with the code they have.

I miss it where it was about the social aspect and not just about end game.

All I know is, even after I got everything I wanted from Dynamis/Sky/Sea/Limbus/Salvage. I still stuck around because I liked hanging out with the people.

The second would follow the same rationale as the first. 75-era is different to the point of almost being a different game. Some people obviously prefer 75-era or there wouldn't be 75-era private servers.


They both feed into each other. Poorly managed SE releases monotonous timewasting content designed specifically to drag out subs and take advantage of FOMO and sunken cost.


Even if your dubious claims of some sort of "dozens of players" on a low population server being new players or returnees is true, that still wouldn't override the majority of players having been playing for years.

I mean I agree but...be the change you want to see in the world? I don't know your situation and won't judge it but I think as a general rule it's funny the amount of people here who say there's nothing to do at endgame (on either server) but instead of sticking around to help others, they jump to another server where they can work on THEIR character again.

If you log in to help other people and run events that you don't stand to gain much/anything from, there's plenty of stuff to do! I've been doing Omen twice/week for years and I've got every drop I could want from there, and there are probably at least 5 other people in my LS in the same boat. We also run two Dynamis-D groups and routinely take people along for unlocks, RP, to show them the ropes, etc.

I think people assume that retail is just this place where everyone logs in, does Sortie/Odyssey, then just logs off or sits and bazaars all day or something, but (at least in my experience) there's quite a lot of activity. People are always asking for help with some mission, UNM, have questions, or want to team up for inane stuff like SR, Nyzul, assaults, Ein, etc.

People should take advantage of Mrhappy's thing too, there's a really good, supportive community helping new players. It's not all mercs, bots, and Sortie/Ody.

Just checked my ls list right now and I'd say it's about a 50/50 split (counting players, not characters). It probably depends on the day-of-week and time-of-day, but this seems roughly correct? Probably more veterans than new players if everyone were logged on at once, though I'm not sure, I don't keep tabs on every player, there are way too many to hold in my head.

It's really cool that you have a dubious, unfalsifiable anecdote that lies in stark contrast to the reality of retail that has been chronicled in other topics on this very forum.

Make a character on carbuncle, I'll give you a pearl and you can ask everyone when they started.

(|Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.|)

So much for dubious and un falsifiable. You need to borrow $13 from Nynja?

You're close enough to Canada, you should be familiar with how terrible our economy is up here. I cant spare $13 bucks for a broke *** Horizon scrub.

Nynja could dish out money if he felt like it, but I certainly wouldn't waste it on retail.

You obviously like FFXI but not enough to respect the current content (Which is awful lol)

On this subject, you are just as bad as Draylo just the polar opposite lmao...

I think that's an odd thing to say. Draylo literally traipses about the internet and starts flaming anyone anywhere who dares to mention private servers, particularly Horizon. He does this while crying that private servers are somehow ruining retail but also claims that private servers aren't having an effect on retail. He's also either deliberately obtuse about the clear differences between 75-era and retail or he outright has severe mental issues that prevent him from understanding the differences. For his sake, I hope that he's trolling.

The real irony though is that the Horizon topics are the most participated in topics among most of the anti-Horizon crowd. If guys like Draylo weren't literally incapable of not throwing hissy fits over the existence of Horizon, this subforum would be DOA.

Yup, nothing to talk about retail in 2023. I'm guessing the Horizon discussions must be so wild:

"How do I deal with Seiryu's 100 fists"
"How do we kill KB, Meteor keeps wiping us"

Thats why you're here talking about Horizon, right?

I think the more accurate term to use here is relevant content variety.

The tag cooldown is just tag cooldown. Longer tag cooldown doesn't make a content inherently better than another. Imagine SE make Odyssey/sortie twice a week event like dynamis, but you need same amount of grind to get everything, will that make Odyssey/sortie "better" than they are now?

I doubt it, it is still the same thing but you do it 3 times less often. And your 1 year sortie grind now turn into 3 years with longer cooldown, yikes.

If a game has higher content variety, AND each content gives players reward with less grind, then it is harder to burn out this way. Because players are often doing different content and getting rewards faster, which makes them feel good. What makes player burn out is doing the same thing over and over for years, and not having any short term goals done before completing their long term goals.


This kinda have something to do with reward speed I think. :p I don't know about Horizon, but 75 era retail ffxi had very, very slow reward speed, and most gears were relevant or close. Gears like haste pants from sky/limbus was relevant for a really, really long time until level cap increase. Same goes for rdm hat from dynamis. Those could took months if not years to get in 75 era, and they remained relevant for years. So 75 ffxi had higher amount of "relevant content" because of how slow it was back then.

FFXI gear progressions these days are a lot more vertical, hence skipping older gears is often a preferred gearing strategy. Even if you go get those "placeholder gears" from older contents they got replaced quickly. So pretty soon players will get to the point of having only odyssey/sortie as "relevant content" if they focus solely on progression.

(The fact that a large amount of people these days use rmt as a way to skip older content doesn't help)

I am not a huge fan of 75 era ffxi personally. but I still don't think it is fair to compare relevant content variety using all contents available in the entire game. They have different progression and reward speed. You have to consider how useful the gears are, and if those gears can be replaced easily.

Horizon actually just released a major patch full of custom content. It's ironic in a sense because up until this patch, I felt that Horizon had kept things pretty close to the 75-era and had said as much earlier in the Horizon threads. Definitely a major divergence point.

Of course, the Horizon discussions certainly can't match the nuance of:

"Obdella in D hallway"
"10m for 8 hrs plz"

He apparently follows me across the internet... creepy. Mental illness card again, think he's losing touch. If that makes me crazy it certainly isn't a good look for you lol. I think more than half your posts here are on this topic, so might want to stop trying so hard with the personal attacks to devalue opinions.

You literally posted pictures of yourself in these topics crying at people in Youtube comments because they said the word Horizon lmao

So a couple of youtube comments that are barely a line long is somehow me traipsing through the net to be anti horizon police? You can't be serious, it takes me seconds and it was posted to prove a point. Yet you say nothing about that guy literally trying to recruit people interested in retail. I think I posted like 3 pics max of my one line replies lol.

People are literally creating videos about XI and having to add a caveat of "I know horizon exists, before you comment, im not interested", they are reaching levels of yoshi PP worship from the xiv crowd.

@12:58
https://youtu.be/VyDPfx-nfBE?si=7sifNCM8-izGgj_D

Others pointed out that you can be found regularly in the comments sections of Youtube videos having a tizzy over people mentioning Horizon. The fact that you chose to only post 2 of these incidences doesn't erase that. Nevermind the fact that you've chosen to make dozens of posts in the Horizon topics alone. You can't sit there and try to downplay your anti-Horizon fervor when you voluntarily go onto a Horizon specific subforum and make dozens of posts in Horizon topics about how much Horizon rustles your jimmies.

Oh so now you are allowed anecdotes but nobody else. I'm subbed to XI feed, it comes up regularly as only "FFXI". The XI crowd is not big, especially in YouTube. It's mostly one line replies in response to dummies hating on retail. If they are allowed to do it then so can I. At least I'm still interested in XI, you don't even play and apparently despise retail yet you are still posting here. This is just one topic of many that I participate in and is most recent.

You really shouldn't be going for the mental illness angle to devalue my opinions when you have nothing to stand on lol. You are pretty much doing the same thing so what's your excuse?

That's not what is happening though. Even in the pictures you posted, people say innocuous things like "Check out HorizonXI, it's a new 75-era private server." and you promptly get angry and insult them.


I don't despise retail, I just recognize that it has largely ran its course. As I've said before, I wouldn't be on this forum if I despised retail.


The Horizon topics are far and away the topics you have participated in the most this past month lol


Not even close. If I were going into multiple retail topics kvetching about retail endlessly and doing the same on Youtube and Discord, you might have a point, but that's actually your MO. You've literally made over 100 posts in the Horizon topics over the past month. That's some seriously obsessive hatred.

He said that in response to someone excited to return to a retail server, literally trying to recruit them to his knock off game. It wasn't angrily either, it was a mix of disbelief and a major eye roll. Why do you care so much where I post? How do people who don't care enough know you aren't in other places too? You can simply debate the topic with what's in this thread you are just looking desperate to devalue opinions when you are essentially doing the same thing as everyone else. I don't need to know where you post and how often to discuss video game opinions, you look like you have stock in horizon with how often you defend them lol