If Horizon Had A $1 Monthly Fee

A linkshell is significantly more flexible because there is less reliance on individual players being present for the linkshell to operate. Setting aside one or two nights a week to participate in the content you want is much more feasible to do because your linkshell will continue to operate during the rest of the week without leaving you in the dust. It's far more realistic for an individual to participate in 3 LS events per week than it is for an individual to run Sortie and Odyssey 7 days per week.

A lot of linkshells had more members than would attend events. So they were ‘casual(ish) friendly’. Your tank out of 18 ppl missing for the day? Take the other guy with Aegis.

It was a lot easier as a casual player to join 18 man stuff than 6 man today through linkshells.

There's not much significant group content these days beyond those two things.

If you're caught up and have played for the last 5 years continuously, you most likely only need Sortie(and Odyssey if you're still struggling with V25). But, I hate to imagine how little you'd have left to do if you spent 5 years continuously playing Horizon.

Pull up a job guide and start indexing where the gear comes from.
-Accessories and AF1+3 from omen (+original af quests, and seal bcs to get upgrades)
-AF2+3 from Dynamis (+original dynamis, and seal bcs to get upgrades)
-AF3+3 from Sortie (+abyssea and seal bcs)
-Odyssey equipment + augments
-Defending Ring, loq earring, possibly suppanomimi from 75 content
-Orunmila's torque and seidr cotehardie from meebles
-A few pieces from walk of echoes (Enchanter's earring+1 and pixie hairpin +1)
-Fast cast gear and macro pieces from Escha-Zitah and Escha-Ruaun
-Dark matter augs from Reisenjima
-Unique use pieces from Sinister Reign (Malevolence, Samnuha Tights, Fanatic Gloves, Leyline Gloves)
-Many jobs still use Ambuscade gear, all still use Ambuscade capes
-Augmented unity gear
-JSE neck/weapon augments from dynamis
-Some delve pieces like Chaac Belt and Fucho-No-Obi
-Mythic/Emp weapons, which are full content in themselves, albeit soloable.
-Malignance from HTBC (+wotg missions)
-Domain Invasion pieces like Thrud Earring and Hauksbok Arrow
-TP bonus weapons from magians
-Crafted gear

It's completely disingenuous to suggest that only Sortie and Odyssey are relevant. The reason that current players focus on them is because they already have everything from all the other relevant content, not because it ceased to exist. If you make a new character and want to fully max it out, you're going to be doing a ton of different things.

What other meaningful group endgame content can you think of Kuroki?
22 years of content, yes. The large majority of which is either irrelevant or can be easily soloed.

What are you thinking about that requires a group and is meaningful today?
I can think of a few but it's mostly something you would do if you're a returner who hasn't played in some time and needs to catch up to "build up" one ore more jobs, so that such jobs can actually be ready to do the "meaningful" end-content.
If you're within that process then yes, there's a lot of stuff that you can do.
Until you eventually reach the point where you're done with that, you "catch up", and when that happens what are you left with? I'd say Odyssey climbs (and RP farms) and Sortie, both require a group to be efficient.

What else are you thinking?
Omen? Dyna-D? Which is the last group-event FFXI has seen, so far.
Everything else I can think of is either irrelevant, a catch-up or can be easily soloed if you really want to experience it a few times before forgetting about it.

The decider of what content is meaningful is the individual player. If you're looking at the game as a whole though, the deciders would be the veterans and the community.

I believe the term "meta" comes into play here.

The current state of the game is 6 man content featuring sortie and oddy, occasionally ambuscade, master trials, omen astral farming, Exemplar point grinding, NNI when campaign is up, and basically every other active campaign.

Dyna D and omen with groups still has some relevance for income/gear, but less than it did before oddy came out.

Linkshells, while certainly a great way to get ideas, don't serve the purpose they once did, and are now mostly used to do smaller shouts for those events I mentioned above.

As for needing to play daily to accomplish anything, Oddy has a 20 hour refresh on entrance items, sortis is the same, so playing daily gets you to more use out of such events, especially considering you get content specific currency from participating. The prime weapons take a massive amount of said currency to obtain. The best groups can pull in about 60k muffins in a run, even with that, it would take a player 142 days to obtain a single fully upgraded prime weapon. If you only play once a week, that's 2.7 years. so it makes accomplishing that goes seem incredibly daunting if you don't play daily.

Doesn't really seem any more daunting than a once a week player trying to make a relic or mythic in real 75 era. Obviously in 2023 it's a little bit different, since people fully understand the content and even a small group could farm quite a bit of currency. Still, the idea that every reward is for everyone is not something inherent to the game. A once-a-week Sortie player would probably be satisfied with their progress on empyrean armor for quite a while.

If private servers start charging and see absolute zero player drop, then I'll believe you :p.

I meant... why can't both reasons be legit? People like private servers because of nostalgia, and it is free. If PS start charging $13 a month many people may wonder if their nostalgia worth this much. Not everybody views nostalgia the same way.

Like how I enjoy 90s era retro games but never want to pay more than $3-$5 for them, if it is free then it is even better. While some others are willing to pay for $500 or more for physical copies on ebay because nostalgia worth a lot more for them.

I am pretty sure some people will pay a lot of money for nostalgia and vice versa. Using the term nobody to describe either side is a very bold assumption lol.


I would say internet is close to life necessity these days, same applies to gym. I would pay for gym fees to force myself go to gym because it is necessary for better health.

Video game(and netflix) is entertainment that can be skipped entirely, they are very different from internet bill and gym fee.

Guy actually thinks it being FREE is an absolute nonfactor to people playing it.

How much stuff have you taken (legally) or tried out because it was "free"? Assassin's Creed Syndicate is free on the Ubisoft store for a couple days. How many people do you think are gonna add it to their library simply because its free?

What I am referring to is regarding relevant content, of course for a new player there are tons of content to do, but for those of us who have been around for a few years the current relevant content is Odyssey and Sortie, and this content is daily and when you already You've done it about 20 times and it gets unbearably boring.

However, we look at era 75, I never got a relic/mythic in that era and I was still able to go to all the contents of the game with LS or with pugs. In fact, both my brother and I played 80% of the time with pugs and we were able to do Nyzul isle, Salvage, ISNM, BCNM, Sky, Einherjar, Assaults....without any problem.

Also I never did camp bosses for that long or at any time in the morning, I never got Ridill or Adaman but I was able to stay relevant and get my full Askar armor doing Nyzul isle exclusively with pugs.

In 75 I came in and had a lot of relevant things to do with pugs, with LS or whoever, nowadays the really relevant content is limited to two daily tasks like Odyssey and Sortie. This is one of the reasons why we played servers era 75 because it had an unbeatable content design.

I have lived through practically all the eras of the game since its second year and this era in retail is the worst due to the amount of relevant group content.

Anyone who still thinks that we play FFXI era 75 because it's free is literally a troll.

"Doing the same content over and over on retail is boring, so I'm gonna do the same content that was released 20 years ago over and over and over and over"

This is false equivalency. For you, after playing retail through the entire period, you have most content already done. The equivalent would be having all of your sky gear, dynamis gear, nyzul gear, kings gear, and salvage gear at the tail end of 75. Sure, you can keep camping sandworm and DI to get more gil for another relic, but you're still just doing 2 events, and they have a whole lot less depth to them than retail's 2 events.

It makes sense that people who are caught up and bored of retail would find 75-era refreshing, but it's not a statement on 75 era vs retail era.. it's a statement on how much time you've already spent on retail to reach that point.

Just because someone with 3 characters and top notch gear can clear Omen easily, or a strong 6man can clear dynamis, doesn't make them no longer content for everyone else. Returning players are going to take 6+ to Omen and 12+ to Dynamis and still may not win. Assault might be easy to solo for someone who knows the gimmicks, but it's still faster and more fun to do in a group. Nyzul is most efficient in a group. Really, if the entire argument is that 'this can be dualboxed so its not group content', then you may as well throw out 90% of sky/sea/limbus/isnm/bcnm/assault/salvage as well because good players could duo all of that in 75 era.

Guys, it's not that difficult to understand, I got a friend hooked on FFXI about 3 or 4 years ago, he started in Nasomi, then he went to retail and today he made practically all the content and is playing in Horizon, his conclusion is the same as ours: doing leveling parties is much better than JP parties or master level parties, and the general content of era 75 is much better than the current one, mainly because it does not have a daily counter, it makes you feel freer when deciding what to do. do.
And Aht Urgan is not yet implemented with the ton of group content it will add.

Daily tasks is the worst decision ever for any game, especially MMO.

Retail does well by having a lot more equipment and sets for different things, it also does many things well, but it must also be recognized that it has other design decisions that have made the game worse.
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Biggest difference is old content will drag you around longer with mid-low drops/lengthy pop sets with also mid-low drop rates. While retail you can get yourself up to speed relatively quickly, both version have a good array of content at base, but era's going to have more to work through just due to the above, dyna/limbus/etc lockouts, omega/ultima sets sky/sea popsets so on.

Journey might be more appealing to others but man, cant spend all that time farming a love/kirin set anymore


Both versions had that, HNM windows, salvage runs, nyzul/assault runs whether it be for salvage points or nyzul farming, inbetween you had your regularly scheduled stuff limbus, dyna, pop farming etc.

Of course this was all optional, much like retail is optional

Dont get me wrong, I loathe the daily use-it-or-lose-it lockout of Ody/Sortie, I've spoken out on this hundred's of times. But sayin 75-era didnt/doesnt have lockout timers is a huge load of ***.

Dynamis is [at least] twice a week and amounts to more weekly time than Sortie does.
Limbus is [at least] twice a week.
Einherjar is [at least] twice a week, if you had it.
Assault is a daily counter, if you had it.

Sky and Sea are free, but a half decent group without too much dead weight will cap on sky in a couple of weeks anyway.

You're entitled to like what you like, but you're confusing an environment full of people willing to actually play for better content. The thing that makes leveling on Horizon more fun than doing ML on retail isn't content design, it's the fact you can get 6 real people together to play without bots.

Not sure how much of this is even readable to you, assuming you're using an automatic translator of sorts given what you did to my name.

Sky and Sea have NM repop timers. Depending on congestion and lack of claiming skill, or skill in general if you need multiple people per NM, its realistically possible to spend 8 hours up there and wind up with 0 pop items. That is exponentially worse than Ody/Sortie daily lockout. Putting actual effort and time, a lot of time, the equivalent of a standard working shift, just to leave empty handed. Woooooo 75 era.



lmao
are we getting played by ChatGPT Espanol?

Yes, my native language is not English, that's why I use Google translate, sorry about its name.

You yourself are responding to what I am saying: all the content was 75 IT IS NOT DAILY, it was distributed in such a way that few things were done daily, even assaults/nyzul you could accumulate stacks and do them all in one day every 3 or 4 days, even If you lost a day it wasn't a very notable loss.

The relevant content of FFXI Retail IS DAILY, yes or if it is every day and the day you don't do it you can feel the loss to a lesser or greater extent.

I don't know, if you are not able to understand the difference between what the retail game is like and how it was in the '75 era... there is little more to say.

What I can say is that I have been hooked on FFXI by around 20 people in my entire life and ALL of them prefer era 75 to retail altogether, and most of them are not affected by nostalgia because they did not play FFXI in the era 75 years.
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"I lost an assault tag, but its ok, it was only one tag"
"I didnt do Ody or Sortie today, THIS IS HORRIBLE I HATE RETAIL FFXI AND ITS DAILY RESTRICTIONS"

Sounds hypocritical considering its the exact same thing.

Salvage and Assault are both daily, and you feel that loss if you're working on Captain or Mythic. A fresh character going for mythic access on retail is likely around 200 days of assault tags(don't remember exact return on nyzul at 75 era, but it wasn't pretty).

I totally understand why people would prefer 75 cap servers to retail. I don't think it's the quality of content, though. It's the fact that people there actually play together and rules are enforced to an extent. Retail has comparatively little player interaction because everyone just wants to bot by themselves, and that makes the environment less fun.

75 content is trivial and has no nuance or difficulty. There are less relevant events than now, not more. These are objective facts, you can quantify them in terms of needed actions per minute, minimum gear requirement, or numerous other ways. It's a plain and simple fact that 75 content is much easier and less diverse than current content.

I am not criticizing your language, merely pointing out that a translation is not going to honor the exact nature of what I'm saying.

Final relevant Retail content:
-Odyssey
- Sortie

Final relevant content was 75:
- Nyzul isle
- Assault
- Sky
- Einherjar
- HNM
- BCNM
- ENM
- KSNM
- Limbus
- Sea
- ISNM
And more content than I forgot.

So yes, nothing happens if I lose a stack of assaults because I can be doing many other relevant things, something that doesn't happen in retail today.

Do you want more? :D
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Double post, but imagine missing salvage the day your group got a Macha's Coat drop. Suddenly you're out another 3 months because nobody wanted to do Arra and the droprate was trash. That's a whole lot worse than being one day further from a Sortie reward..

Define 'final relevant content'. It's not 'content with gear that matters', because you skipped most of what retail has. It's not 'content thats difficult or time consuming to cap on', or most of what you listed for 75 wouldn't count. It's not 'content that was released in the last stage' or you'd only have DI/Sandworm for 75 cap.

Nobody who was at the top of their game at 75 was running sky/sea/limbus regularly in the same era WOTG content existed, because they were easy to cap out on. Nyzul is one of those dailies you hated, and people still capped out on the pieces they needed and quit doing it. BCNM/ENM/KSNM/ISNM are just gil, and you can farm that from Delve, Vagary, Sinister Reign, Ambuscade, Skirmish, BCNM, Omen, Dynamis, among others in retail. You can't do HNM unless window is up, and even then you're spending 2 hours waiting for a 10 minute fight(if you get to do it at all).

Never mind that private servers don't have half of what you listed coded, and won't for years.

This is so stupid, how many times do people have to point this out to you...

You're listing all the "final" relevant retail content for someone who already has all the gear for their jobs, and the "final" relevant 75 content for someone with no gear.

If you have all the abjuration drops from Sky, why would you do Sky? If you have all the drops from Limbus, why would you do Limbus?

If you want to compare a completely geared out 75 to a geared out retail, here's your list of relevant content for 75:
- Nyzul isle
- Assault
- Sky
- Einherjar
- HNM
- BCNM
- ENM
- KSNM
- Limbus
- Sea
- ISNM

Its been a while since I did Nyzul at 75 cap, but I'd presume a great group of 6 humans could probably push from 96 to 105. I might be generous with this one, but its also got easily referenced numbers on wiki (1900 floor jump cost, 2765 exit reward, 3041 for armband). Presuming all 6 humans are making their own mythic, therefor giving the person who spends the 1900 to jump to 96 the armband, and are routinely hitting 10 floors, the average tokens per run is ((2765*5)+(3041-1900))/6 = 2494.33, so you're looking at 61 nyzul runs.

As I finished mathing this out, I realized these numbers are based on floor 96 entries only and I'm really not down to do the math of starting from 0. Theres also the 50 assaults that need to be completed for captain, and then the redo for the books.

What I'm saying is Thorny's estimate of 200 days is pretty accurate, and that 200 days is higher than the time it will take for a good group to get the muffins required for a Prime weapon.

inb4:
"What if you're not in a good group for sortie, you can only make 25k muffins per run", well then you're probably a bad player whos not clearing 10 floors in nyzul at 75 cap regularly either.

Plus if you're using 60 of your tags to get nyzul tokens, you're not getting any assault points which you need to use to get into Salvage to farm your alex and complete other requirements. Whoopsie, need more daily tags guys! Make sure not to waste one!

Guy listed BCNM ENM KSNM ISNM lmfaooooooooooo

If thats the baseline then relevant retail content:
Delve
Vagary
Sinister Reign
Macrocosmic Orb
Omen
Dynamis-D
Ambuscade


Guy literally listed Einherjar. A 15 minute event whos biggest challenge was hoping someone had the Tidal Talisman to whip you across cuz if you miss the boat to Nashmau you waste 20 minutes of everyones time.

This is true too!