If Horizon Had A $1 Monthly Fee

The Roman line of reasoning, I love it.

I do agree that this change was a very odd one, but it does make me wonder if the "reason" behind it was more for the team, or more likely just person, who did it.

As like a step up from getting ffxi to print "Hello World" this feature implements a lot of things that for a new to the code base person might want to be able to do;

• add a button to the game ui

• launch an external app

• and update game settings after the game has launched

Not to be all sunshine and rainbows, but it could be seen as evidence that they are working on something, maybe eliminating POL... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ a girl can dream

I think it's a decent change. I was actually considering writing an interface to select controllers prior to them adding it, and we had a couple people in the ashita channel asking about split screen multiplayer within the month prior. So, at least a few people did literally ask for it, and it does have a use.

It also allows multiboxers to have one controller per instance, if you pretend some of them are legitimately playing their characters.

I've asked ppl that have made addons for ppl if a function like this could have been made as an addon so I could change controller settings in game instead of outside. May not be a change you cared for, but I wouldn't say it's something no one has asked for.

Outside of it being nice to change settings in game instead of having to relaunch over and over, it makes troubleshooting controller problems far simpler and quicker.

i think if you asked 100 ffxi players for the top 10 things they wanted to see in FFXI in the next year, 0 of them would have "gamepad config in game" on their list.

it's a good change, yep! is it something that the playerbase was screaming for? no.

I think it's worth considering how many dev resources were used, too. There's not a whole lot that can be done in less than an hour of dev time, and this likely was(considering they typoed one of their launch lines, they almost certainly didn't do meaningful testing).

-Add two buttons, each of which just sends (the same) single application launch.

-Add parameter to config tool launch args, and read it to decide if message event goes to FFXI when apply is clicked.

-Add message event handler to ffxi that triggers existing function call to reinitialize controller system.

It's not like they could've added a real endgame event or made an expansion pack in the time it took to do this. I'd rather see them do something, even if it doesn't benefit me, than nothing.

If you asked 100 ffxi players for the top 10 things they wanted to see in FFXI in the next year, every one of them would require thousands or tens of thousands of development hours.

I don't play with a controller, but with several people who do...and their general take was extremely positive.

Sometimes people don't ask for changes they don't expect are possible- and while generally simple SE hasn't done much touching of things like this over the 20 year history of the game.

why...?

as someone who played with a controller on PC until somewhere around 2013, why on earth would you open up that menu more than once?

off topic. i don't care whatever you're going to reply with

The catch with a fair use defense is that fair use has to be determined on a case by case basis. Unless the legal facts of your situation are simple and capital-I Identical to prior cases, chances of a dismissal are effectively zero.

Reverse engineering can be fair use, but to prove that your reverse engineering is fair use you'll have to spend a lot of time and money proving it in court.

Where you do see fair use dismissals, it's usually very simple scenarios with lots of case history, like a newspaper using someone's social media profile picture without permission when publishing a story about them.

That only really matters when you are taking apart someone else's stuff, the LSB team has zero access to any of SE's code. It's the text book definition of clean room because not only is there no copyrighted code presented, there is no documentation, technical manuals or previous employee. Everything, and I mean everything has to be done from scratch. It was funny he mentioned rAthena as the framework LSB uses as that is something I worked with a long time ago.

I do A, observe X, write it down, then do B, observe Y, write it down, and keep doing it until I can accurately predict the observation based on my action. Do that enough and you can write an interoperability standard. That interoperability standard can then be used to create an emulator that enables two different systems to interact with each other.

What the LSB has done is create an emulation layer that enables the FFXI retail client to interact with the LSB server code.

Im the controller player SE made this update for.

Like *** you guys. Jelly SE made an update just for me? I laugh as I change my autorun to the start button on my controller during V25 Tree because I *** can. Tap tap tap. What's that sound? That me *** weapon skilling as I lay down in bed mother ***

I'm sure the LSB team would ultimately win a copyright lawsuit, but there's no way they'd get a quick dismissal. Not that SE is likely to sue them in the first place.

My point is that the burden of proving fair use is on the defendant, and just saying "Objection! Bleem! Clean Room!" is not going to cut it.

Ooooh, the moron wants a classic server. Now it all makes sense. Gosh, now I feel embarrassed for even attempting to have a rational debate with such a dipshit.

Hmm in this situation they would, because SE couldn't claim damages. One of the many FOSS lawyers would get involved and submit a MtD for Failure to State Claim 12(b)(6).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_12

This is the defense argument that even if all facts of the claim are true, there is insufficient violation of the law or remedy to be awarded. It's a "even if everything they say is true, there is no law that has been broken or no harm to be remedied.

It's one of the fastest and cheapest ways to get a junk lawsuit dismissed. The LSB is an original work and therefor can not infringe on any SE copyright, that's what the term original work means. This is why companies don't sue FOSS organizations, even though it would be the easiest way to remove competition from the marketplace as FOSS are lightly funded. Imagine if Microsoft just swamped the Linux Foundation (LF) with non-stop lawsuits claiming Linux copyright and patent violations. They would be designed to sap all the financial resources from LF leaving them unable to further develop the Linux kernel and giving Microsoft and market advantage. In that scenario the LF would just claim 12(b)6 that the lawsuits had no merit and get dismissed before discovery, which is where the legal costs start to skyrocket.


Horizon on the other hand, yeah as I mentioned above it would be a pyrrhic victory. SE could affirm that Horizon is directly competing with them and therefor causing financial harm and they wish the court to rule for compensation. That would qualify as a controversy, trigger discovery and the whole multi-million dollar shebang.

The 12(b)(6) assumes all facts as plead by the plaintiff to be true. If, and this is a massive if, SE did sue LSB they would not plead that LSB is an original work lol.

They don't get to say that. As I said the LSB is already an original work, SE would have to prove otherwise in a different hearing.

Again, there is reason Microsoft can't sue Linux into oblivion. Microsoft can't sue Libre Office either. Lawfare has it's own rules and FOSS projects are in a very good defensive position.

https://www.libreoffice.org

I mean if you hate something they just hate it, don't do mental gymnastics to try to claim something is IP theft when it's not.

I'm not saying anything about anything else. I'm not an IP attorney and can't speak to copyright law. I'm just noting that the 12(b)(6) assumes the plaintiff's facts as plead. If SE brought a suit (assuming they have competent legal department) their lawyers, either correctly or incorrectly, and either maliciously or in good faith, would allege that LSB is based off their original work. Not to mention you get an opportunity to amend the complaint without leave within 21 days and typically a 12(b)(6) is a dismissal without prejudice. My only point being that even a frivolous lawsuit can overcome a 12(b)(6).

That would be a different lawsuit prior to the copyright one. The LSB is already and original work, they would have to prove otherwise.

Basically you can't make absurd claims and have them assumed to be true, there has to be some merit. A meritless claim is excluded from 12(b)(6).

"I'm requesting the court grant me 1 million in damages due to Velner stealing my soul".

That would be a 12(b)(6) MtD.

Essential it's claiming there is no controversy.


Ehh.... no ... just no stop. The entire point of that section is to remove frivolous and / or meritless lawsuits... they get approved all the time.

Ok, you lost me. I'm a practicing attorney and have no clue what you're talking about.

Yes and I'm a Fighter Pilot, Doctor and Congressmen.

You're almost right. The 12(b)(6) is to dismiss a lawsuit in which either the facts even if true do not satisfy the elements of whatever you're trying to enforce or for a fact pattern for which the law offers no remedy. They are not very effective against a suit filed to harass another party because a careful pleading can easily overcome the 12(b)(6). There are other remedies for cases filed in bad faith like sanctions, awarding defense's costs, and reporting an attorney to the bar for discipline. But the 12(b)(6) is not really designed for that. Frankly, under Twombley and Iqbal it's more likely a 12(b)(6) will prevent a claim that has merit rather than protect against a bad faith filing.

I would love for this to be implimented in Windower. Being able to use multiple controllers on one system would make my life much easier.

Or just if send supported RPC.

That being said, I didn't even know they added the controller thing (have been too busy with RL to keep up) and just tried it, ***instantly crashes as soon as it comes up. Well done SE, well done.

It will probably never happen IRL, but the possibility of having an IRL party of ffxi actually sounds a little bit fun if the screen was big enough.

The controller update for FFXI actually added the ability to select a controller in the config. So, you can select controller 1, launch FFXI and get ingame. Select controller 2, launch FFXI again, and get ingame again. Boom, splitscreen seperate controllers.

I think a lot of the people griping about the controller update were focused on changing bindings and didn't realize this.

[I don't write anything for windower, though.]

Sure they can. Even if they accept at face value that LSB isn't based on any of SE's own code, documentation, etc., SE can claim it facilitates copyright infringement and point to the private server community numbers as a claim of lost revenue. They can easily demonstrate standing to sue if they ever care to pursue it.

If LSB were game-agnostic with an OSS client, it would be harder for SE to claim that its primary purpose is copyright infringement, but, no. It's clearly labeled as an FFXI server emulator, and the only public client is SE's own.

We're really into the weeds, though. I think we agree on the important bits: LSB is almost certainly fair use, and SE barely cares about retail, much less LSB and the handful of private servers that run it.

It's server operations they will go after if anything, not the LSB. Especially if they start taking revenue from it.

"I arrived late to the party.

For me, both FFXI-RETAIL and FFXI-CLASSIC have their appeal, but in different ways.

FFXI-CLASSIC has this sense of community and memories. From 2006-2010, maybe they had the best end-game experience, not because of the difficulty but the experience of seeing your friends three times a week and raiding with them.

While I respect FFXI-CLASSIC, there are aspects that aren't compatible with my playstyle in 2023. I'd prefer something like a Cat-Eye server that offers the same.

The story and limit breaks should be optional and give you a necklace, ring, earring, waist, or back as an incentive, like "Rajas Ring," but in 2023, shouting for six hours for the Promys kills the 0RGASM, sorry.

Let people go play end game quickly and spam exp parties until my sugar levels drop. Why do they love torturing people by making me do those missions? Lol

Jobs should be unlocked at level 1, all of them, and the same goes for AF quests; they should be optional.

It should have heroic and mythic versions of FFXI-CLASSIC end-game, which Horizon is already doing. Cat-Eye has them, but they didn't give them those names, just "Custom-battles," which doesn't tell players anything. Give them a name that MMORPG veterans will quickly grasp.

Oh, look, Custom-battles era+, what a boring name, guys, lol.

LET'S BRING HEROIC AND MYTHIC-PLUS CONTENT to FFXI-CLASSIC, with unforgettable battles, an impressive trailer, seeing how BYAKO comes out with three heads or something, but if they say "Custom-battles," it's like, hmmm?

The Cat-Eye server, which merged with Wings, is growing because it's a LV75 version but like "Retail." That seems interesting to me.

As for RETAIL, it's a good game, but it lacks an end game for at least 12 people to return and play with friends. The 6-man cap is hurting FFXI a lot.

Finally, private servers, in my eyes, might be illegal, but they exist for all kinds of games like PSO, WoW, Tera, Aion, and companies don't do anything about it. Many of them ignore it because a legal process in the USA would cost them $75k-$100k minimum and at least 1 year, if they're lucky, which companies say, "Forget that."

We all know that when Horizon releases ToAU with BLUE-MAGE 100% playable at LV75, Draylo will be there playing 18 hours a day, right? It'll be impossible for him to resist that. I'll play with you, Draylo, calm down, dear lord. I have PLD, RDM, and BST ready to play with your BLU. Chill, man

Yes.. I go overboard on drinks on a Tuesday, oh well, it's a Tuesday with a Friday vibe, guys

I didnt think I've get to use it in this thread, but here we go


BUTTTTTTTTT MERCSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Hate to break it to to you, but when the mercs can merc 6man merc content. They will merc it to their merc-y-ist.