Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

I don't use anchor, but the monotony of Sortie and boss knockbacks has made it really tempting since I started doing melee strat runs. There are only so many times you can get shoved back and bound in place, spam a panacea, then run back that it goes from "engaging and interesting" to "annoying and mundane" really quickly.

I enjoy the hour chatting with my friends in Sortie, but the gameplay content is dull and irritating. We've made it more interesting by switching up strats, but it's still dull content. I don't blame anyone for using things like anchor to just get it over with especially players who have proven they can do it several times over with their eyes closed. I agree it's cheating and there is a morality question associated with it, but I don't think it fundamentally changes those fights enough to really make a difference. Yes, there are some it does, but once you've killed the same boss 100 times the same way, you are just stalling it by a few seconds and adding one more step that ultimately doesn't really change much mechanically.

Not saying I'm going to do it. Not saying I necessarily disagree with you, but I get where it comes from and I'd be lying if I wasn't tempted by it just to get it over with. I think it comes down more to how much you actually like that content vs just doing it to get it over with


Competitive cyclists from gravity disciplines use e-bikes to "self shuttle" areas without a lift or shuttle so they can emphasize things relevant to their discipline. It's not uncommon to see elite athletes using them to get the slower, more mundane portions of a given ride over with faster so they can emphasize doing things relevant to their category or what they are currently training on. These people could put out insane power numbers and easily accomplish the same thing without the motor, but they use it to optimize time and energy to emphasize what is relevant to them. So while I get your point, it's kindof funny in this context.

We're also not competing against one another, not in this context anyway, it's just seeing who can grind the most daily across a period of time. The only competition is seeing who can get it done first and flex their epeen the hardest by standing on the hill in Rabao next to the crystal.

If you don't care for the morality argument, let's try the efficiency one. If your goal is to attain prime weapons, and you have a % chance at being banned for every run you speedhack, at what point is it more efficient to git good and stop speedhacking?

Let's say you have a 1 in 200 chance at getting banned every time you speedhack in an instance. By the time you've made 2 prime weapons, you're 64% likely to be banned. By the third, 78.2%. By the fourth, 86.8%.

How much are you *actually* gaining with speedhacks, an extra 10-20% galli? Anyone doing this is stupid.

But do they get their sortie tag back faster with it?

I'm a little late to the discussion, but regarding anchor, personally I don't like it because it removes a mechanic from fights, but I understand the people who use it because lets be honest, knockback coding is garbage. I have tried tanking VD lilith legit with killing all the adds etc using the 3 knockback mitigation pieces, and it works wonders.... until anyone else gets in range. For some stupid *** reason, SE coded it that if anyone would get knocked back by an attack, then everyone does.... So when one of your party members accidentally steps in range and gets knocked back, I go flying outside the fetters in the lilith fight (The "deathwall") and its gets really annoying from there. Knockback would be in a much better state if the 3rd item needed wasn't on the legs slot, why not an earring or belt? It would be much easier to convince the entire party to lock in all 3 pieces if it didn't take up the leg slot....

Very possible, it's about coordinating abelites and targeting. Seriously not everyone being on the same monster will at least double your groups kill speed. Having the Tank and Bard tag team pulling big groups so that the DPS machine keeps being fed. Having your WAR's (if multiple) coordinate WC / BR usage so that the party always has one buff up at all times. Having your PLD (if you use one) have a Naegling and SB set to fire off whenever they can for that extra damage. If puling bones, using holy circle and Banishga II to make them evaporate. COR knowing when to Savage, Leaden and Wildfire (think on undead).

All those little things add up quick, real quick. Also kinda requires a group knowing each other and being able to quickly pull stuff off.

Ok, now do this analogy with knockbacks. Can I make 10-20% more muffins with anchor preventing knockbacks?

There isn't an analogous situation for knockbacks, since as far as anyone can tell you don't get banned for anchor. If you could, you'd be a moron to use that, too.

This is a tricky conversation for me because these sort of QoL mods/addons can often inform developers of deficiencies in their game that they can then go back and address and fix themselves. For example, WoW often integrates popular addons into the baseline UI, and while third-party tools are just as officially forbidden in XIV as they are in XI, SE has improved XIV's client to integrate some of the popular addons people made in the past for that game's version of Windower/Ashita. Things like tagging things you've collected on their icon or showing buff/debuff timers on the party list, and so on. This has usually happened after someone streamed with these things up and got banned for it in a public way, but it is still improvement based on what tools are doing and integrating it into the base client.

This is a harder conversation to have for XI because the client sort of is what it is by this point and there is not or does not seem to be the manpower, budget, or will to change or improve it (maybe not even the knowledge to, really). Combine that with the historical... Adversarial? Stance/relationship that XI's devs had with the playerbase like most pre-WoW MMOs (need I mention The Vision for Everquest or Star Wars Galaxies?) and we sort of get to where we are now. For better or worse XI's developers aren't in the business of really taking in feedback anymore, so players will continue to take it into their own hands.

Don't get me wrong, like every MMO or game with third party tooling that's in the grey area of "you won't actually get banned unless you're blatant and doing the worst things" everyone has their line in the sand of what's cheating and what isn't. There are strange decisions SE makes like how Hasso is a 5 minute stance with a 1 minute CD while Afflatus Solace is a 2 hour stance with a 1 minute CD. Conceptually these feel similar enough to me that I'm not sure what the reasoning is behind what stance gets the 2 hour treatment and what stance gets the 2-5 minute treatment (but the recast is lower than that still). Thus I'm not surprised when people automate this to some degree, as SE seems inconsistent on it too. There are similar things to talk about with equip sets vs gearswap, as it's hard to pinpoint what is design intention and what is technical limitation that they cannot go back and change.

You're correct though in that these things do ultimately make the game easier, but everyone has that line of which QoL enhances the fun more than the removal of UI navigation or tedium detracts from it.

The original discussion is knockback and anchor. Idk why people insist on mentioning Tako. Who in this entire thread is defending Tako? Why is there an argument against Tako and zero in favor?

I said nothing about knockback, why are you arguing with me if you don't disagree with me?

I mean, this is obviously just me being a disingenuous negative Nancy or whatever but um...


How are you gonna bypass the randomly placed bitzer mechanic with anchor?

Probably consider reining this dipshittery in, unless you want a new thread cause it's gonna get closed.

Where does it say I use tako? Or encourage it? Are you going to dishonestly presume I said or use that to fit your narrative? I merely hinted at hunting bitzer for the 1000th time is boring.

Sorry, I put 2+2 together and came up with 4.

Not sure if this was a comment directed at what I had said specifically, but I am by no means yelling "cheat" when people succeed at something I am not lol I know there are better groups of players than myself out there winning at stuff I am not. I am of the mindset simply that if you are using something that enables you to complete something in a manner or timeframe that you otherwise couldn't...don't brag about it lol I could care less what people do with their time to accomplish what they want to in game... Just be humble about it if it's by "unconventional" means haha.

Yeah, quelle surprise coming from you. Whoever makes it to the basement first needs to go off-path to look for bitzer. If the bitzer is beyond (formors) that's something like 3 mins added to your run regardless of group skills. You brought tako into discussion because it's what you do.

I only know of a leg piece, a back piece and a ring with knockback reduction, which one am I missing? If none I'm not sure you can convince everyone to switch their adouline reward ring over to vocane.

Worked out the TP times of Helheim (and Naegling for comparison). This is using 2.0 attacks per round even though I know most can get 2.10~2.16.

Did three sets, first without any COR buffs in nearly identical TP / WS sets (GS can't offhand a shield). Second was with a ghetto COR roll, it happens and we've all had to deal with it. Third is with perfect COR roll. Most of the time it'll be between the 2nd and 3rd scenario.

For someone asking earlier on "impossibly" fast clear times. We've done WAR (Chango) x 2 + DRG/NIN (Naegling K Club) + COR (ghetto AF) + BRD + SCH. Outside have Naturalists Roll + Haste II on everyone (have the bard do it). First two floors are Minuet x 3 + Honor March + Aria. Do SV near end of 2nd floor, when Haste II wears the SCH does regular Haste for as long as SV Honor March is on. Hit TR on the last floor but shouldn't' need it if your fast enough.

I prefer it when you SV immediately to Cutting cards the BRD within the 1st 30-45 secs of the run, much higher chance of getting 2 SV out of the run for the final floor and lets you zoom through the 1st 2 floors. At the end of 2nd or beginning of 3rd floor pop TR and reapply buffs, then WC both BRD + SCH + whoever else popped, although its better if the WAR saves SPs for final halo. Having TR when 1st SV wears off helps offset the haste loss, plus the 3rd floor is large and if the COR splits off to solo packs w/ triple shot, having the extra snap helps alot. But all of this is neither here nor there.

Appreciate you bringing it somewhat back to Primes at least and less "No you're cheating" cesspool. Based on your #'s it'd show Naeg even further behind due to wanting to push to atleast 2k TP no? Unless your firing them off at 1k every time due to fencer

The SV is to replace the missing haste if for some reason SV Honor March runs out.

Yeah I don't believe these times either. 5.5 minutes to go down the ramp and kill there then go up and kill 4 more sets including halo and nm? I doubt that, not counting kill speed or dps, just the logistics and the running. In a 22.5 minute full clear time the first floor still took 7-7.5 minutes with bolters etc.

3.5 minutes to kill 4 sets including the one dragged down from the top and halo and nm? I doubt that too.

6.5 minutes including pulling both the down the ramp and up the ramp sets on floor 3? nah.

Even with these numbers to get total clear time of 10mins it would mean the last floor is cleared in 4.5 minutes. This is pure ***. Happy for anyone to post a video proving me wrong.

Now that people mention it the BRD could have been flee hacking because it was unhuman how well he pulled and took 0 damage. I assumed he wasn't because they were JP and I didn't know JP hacked so openly in pug mixed with gaijin

I'm not recording a video to satisfy you, but this was merely the best I've seen. On average 22:00~23:00 either heading up the ramp to the last camp or entering the flux to floor 2, Without bolters at any point during the 1st floor.

Having run hundreds of times that's not unreasonable at all, and no fleehacking. JA0? certainly, but no tako. If you want to argue the tank is Takoing when they were out of draw distance (pulling bottom or top ramps), I doubt it due to how long they're away from the party and how often the lose a mob or 2 on pulll.

We fight While buffing down the ramp at start, the Brd usually doesnt get to fight anything because its all dead by time he's done w/ 5 song. Fight the 2nd pack while the tank runs ahead and gathers up 1 Or 2 camps depending on family.

3.5 mins to kill 4 sets ALL gathered together is unreasonable? Everyone's one shotting the mobs.... that's 40 mobs in 3.5mins.... between 4 (or 5) players. What are you talking about?

On an average run floor 3 takes longer certainly. Entering 4th floor at 11~12 minutes isnt uncommon, Again simply stating the best ive seen.

EDIT: Also I've never cleared with 10mins remaining, and never claimed to. I simply said due to what I've seen I expect it to be possible without Tako. All my fastest runs utilized a BRD tank to get an extra DD (or COR) in the party.


The BRD tanks run full evasion build, buff themselves with Minne and Mambo, likely utilize the flee shoes, and sleepga everything as it gets to the desired location. They have Sentinel for anything hairy. Are you exaggerating with the literal "0 damage" or are you implying they took Little damage, which isnt unreasonable.

Yeah I won't be surprised when noone posts a video, no worries bro.
Your claim is not 3.5mins once all collected though is it, it's the entire floor from warping up to warping to the next?

I agree 18-19mins is common for a good group and lucky mobs. Sure as *** noone is beating floor 4 entirely in 1-2mins though are they?

I'm talking about the BRD in the run I joined, which was subbing dnc (wtf?) and took literally no damage.

Also at the end of the day, this is just my experience with it. I'm not the other 5 players, and if they're doing less kosher stuff that I'm not aware of so be it. To the best of my knowledge theres no fleehacking, and most of the time I'm running at JP prime time with 3+ players who don't speak english.

The important part is that people aren't waiting around, you can't have the DD's standing there waiting for the tank to circle the entiiirrreee zone. Instead the DD's need to rush the first group while the tank / bard runs off to grab more. No waiting, no standing around, no dog piling the same monster all the time, and coordinated JA usage.

Chocobo jig + chocobo mazurka stack.

Mazurka and Quickening effects do not stack, despite the fact that both can be active at the same time.

You are right. Idk why /dnc then. Maybe emergency self heal with waltz or just use jig as emergency movement speed if mazurka drops from being hit and you have aggro on your tail, but that would only work with ja0, otherwise jig animation is way too long. or maybe he doesn't want to use song slot for mazurka. I guess another Minnie could be nice.