Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Agreed, and that being said while still agreeing that 10k or so segs a run is plenty, you can still full clear without any of that. Just gearswap and a dream

On a topic more related to this channel, I have used Laphria in sheol c and I like it, but I am still partial to Ukon presently. Perhaps I should consider revisiting it with a different tp set similar to my Ukon AM set.

Also I recall someone mentioning they wished it didn't have double attack on it... to me this was never an issue. Just make an STP cape instead of a double attack cape, that's what I did. They virtually replace one another and lose almost nothing or actually nothing with stage 5.

Mind posting your Ukon AM3 set? I've used mine in a full C run and it was underwhelming, not just against Naegling but even Chango w/Upheaval spam just felt faster/better overall.

Edit: For clarification, you were partial to Ukon > Laphria because it performed better, or just a dmg style choice?

If it took me 6 months of running the same map over and over to get the flower, you could be damn sure I'd try to shorten it.
There is a difference between dealing with annoying mechanics a few times to prove to yourself that you can beat something, and dealing with these mechanics for 6 months straight because SE doesn't want to put effort into making content more enjoyable.

Beating something once, the legit way, means you deserved it. Beating the same thing hundreds of times means you have the time to spare.

A lot of people doing sortie don't even talk anymore.. they get in, get it done, log out. I hardly believe that there is that one guy still going "WOAAAAA AITA KNOCKED ME BACK AGAIN LMAOZER"...

Actually lol'd.

This has real "I can totally beat it legit, I just don't FEEL like it" vibes.

Beat it once to "prove" how good you are, then switch to EZ mode with cheats because the real game is too hard.

Spending an hour in Sortie moving at normal speeds and being knocked back by enemies means you have too much free time on your hands. Spending an hour in Sortie fleehacking all over the zone and getting some extra packs of Naakuals and NM kills is for people who don't have spare time tho.

ItemSet 378034

This, except I use augmented Kentarch +1 waist and Lehko's Ring. Two reasonings.

1. I merit DA and generally I am using Gyudon so DA gets raised to 99% NQ or 100% with +1 food. While still gaining some STP and accuracy from Kentarch vs Iosheka. and Haste difference comes from Lehkos.

2. dDEX, I want to crit as often as possible. So with Kentarch augmented I gain +10 dex, niq ring +10 dex, Lehko's +10. (Not a fan of Sroda personally either for this reason. -20 dex could be the difference of me having 4% crit vs 15% crit.)

All the crit damage+ gear means jack really if you aren't hitting crits so I just looked at the set and how to make it as functionally practical as possible.

That's my thought process on it anyhow. I could be completely wrong in my approach lol. Thats just what I like to use for me Ukon AM3 set.

Sits at Dex 156+209, STR 161+293

99% of Maletaru posts can be summarized by this meme.

OK, explain my misunderstanding then. Explain your logic for me, since I'm such a thick headed dumbass.

In the context of farming Sortie...if you kill 8/8 bosses and a set of naakual onces, without cheats, then you might as well use cheats and do it every time, because sometimes you will *** up and need the extra advantage from the cheats. But it's OK because you did it once, so you deserve it.

That ridiculousness aside, could you help me understand how someone cheating in a 60 minute event has less free time than someone who isn't cheating in a 60 minute event? Are you full clearing Sortie in 50 minutes, using the wing to exit, and spending the next 10 minutes hugging your children or something? What am I missing here?

Inb4 competitive bicyclists are now using e-bikes, because they already proved they can do it once, why would they need to prove themselves again?

It's hard to explain things to someone who 100% of the time thinks poorly of what other people are saying.

All I meant by my post is that I have the time to spare, just not the patience to deal with boring-repetitive mechanics.

You went and you beat aminon while getting knocked back for 35 mins (first time we beat it). Great. Now beat aminon again 100 times to prove that you can beat 100 times. Maybe when Prime R15 comes we can prove we can beat aminon 1000 times.

don't be silly. It'll be Arch-Aminon.

I never met a male taru that was this rude. usually they just cast spells

IDK, maybe people are bored of the game because they're removing all the difficulty from the game with code. Don't have to time any macro usage because you can spam macros with Gearswap, don't have to stun because of React, don't need to manage macro palettes because of Gearswap, don't need to worry about knockback because of Anchor, don't need to deal with debuffs because your lua automatically uses medicine to remove them, don't need to engage Aminon to WS, you can WS from disengaged, don't have to worry about the timer in Sortie, you can just increase your movespeed to make up time if you make a mistake or are slow with objectives, don't need to worry about aggro, you can just go at 250% move speed and they can't catch you, even if you have 100 mobs on you, Superwarp will click through the menu for you NP. Have your Gearswap automatically use Majesty and Hasso for you, that's annoying, boring, and repetitive.

Just remove anything which is "boring", "annoying" or "repetitive" and I guess you...hit a WS button every once in a while? I guess I see why the game is boring, there's literally nothing left for a human to think about or do in the game anymore and most of the challenge has been automated away.

I'm not referring to Godfry specifically here to be clear, I think this attitude is prevalent with a large segment of the population, including plenty of people I play with (to varying degrees) and I think it's toxic, morality aside. You're removing the gameplay from the game and neutering the enemies and wondering why it's so boring...

You actually make a pretty good case here for this set. My AM3 set is exactly the same, though I only have native 31% DA from merits, so this set with Sailfi has me at 94% before Gyudon +1.

I wish more content demanded crit builds and white damage, I love it on WAR and THF.

Thanks for sharing.

I don't think hitting hasso every 5 minutes is compelling gameplay either, but I get your point.

I don't know that you are, but you sound more purist than the 'average ffxi enjoyer'. I've got my own moral lines in the sand on what's "acceptable" and what's not (movement speed on the nah side, and we're doing 8 boss + nakuaals without them so why risk it for no biscuit?)

If knockback mechanic is negated by putting yourself in a corner, that's not a very compelling mechanic. If this was like XIV and you get knocked off the platform to death, then I'm in strong agreement with you that something like Anchor would be actually game breaking.

Most of your other use-cases I generally agree with. I'm not a react user, but I've done content where others are using it and I benefit from it, is what it is, I'm not gonna crusade against people that want to take more risk with their accounts than I'm comfortable with.From what I've been told from a friend, getting hit by mobs still interrupts your ability to warp, even with superwarp.

Not defending 3pt use or whatever, but how much content do you think people wouldn't be able to clear if anchor was patched? Mostly a rhetorical question, but I think *most* people would generally agree on the difference between QoL tools vs straight up hacks.

I agree, but if you take this and multiply it by 25, you're no longer doing anything. See the other examples above. You don't need to adjust position from knockbacks, you don't need to use medicines, you don't need to time your macros, you don't need to watch the enemy's TP moves to prepare for a stun, etc. If all you were doing was automating Hasso and otherwise playing 100% Vanilla, it wouldn't make much difference.


100% agree on this, it's totally up to everyone to decide where they fall morally. I just find it particularly funny to see the cope people put in about how they're just doing things for "QoL" or how "it doesn't make much difference" or it's "an inconsequential mechanic" or how "I can totally do it, I just choose not to because it's annoying". If you wanna cheat absolutely go for it, but don't lie to yourself (or me, thanks) about the impact it has on gameplay


Knockback can easily make you lose TP, will cause the mob to move
which adjusts your positioning, which can be quite detrimental on fights with fetters/puddles. It can also interrupt you which (AFAIK) won't happen with Anchor.


I think some content would turn from wins to losses, but mostly I think it would change the strategies you have to use and would affect efficiencies etc. Think about A3 V25 strategies involving standing anywhere that doesn't involve a wall, because they all have knockbacks. Plenty of people are doing strategies standing out in the open, or with tanks facing towards the party, etc. For Aminon it means you need to disengage, re-adjust position, then re-engage (my experience as a BRD/DNC on the fight doing steps). G boss can knock you out of melee range and bind you, slowing down your DPS significantly/requiring erase.

Again...if you use all these tools constantly for years, you don't realize how much easier they make the game, because everything is always standing perfectly still and you build your strategies forgetting that knockback even exists, and using React to automatically avoid any harmful WS or easy button ambus without having to use your brain.

Anchor aside, I'm sure without Tako plenty of people would clear fewer Sortie bosses per run, and would likely get fewer segments in their seg farms. Maybe not every run, but on average I'm confident it would affect results. Without Gearswap, most people would absolutely fall apart at the seams, though just about everyone considers that "QoL"

You are going too deep into the hole. Here take this golden shovel!

I'm just glad we don't have enrage mechanics where you immediately die if you do the dance wrong in every single fight, though sortie does cut it close.

from what I've experienced, each group collectively agrees what they will and won't use as far as tools go, to the point that it stands out when someone outside the group does something they marked off-limits.

I'm sure it would blow some people's minds to see what happens in closed instances when no one is looking, the public stuff just scratching the surface of how you can break the game.

anywho, back to my original point, kudos to SE for making most fights interesting and not horribly unfair just to counter stuff like anchor and react. except puddings, let's tango can die in a fire.

Reminds me of the dude who videoed himself “clearing lilith on vd legit”, but no one was gettin bounced around lol

"Alright boys, this is the 1000th time we are going to split and hunt the randomaly placed bitzer. Team A go south, team B go north. Godspeed!"

Much morality, such mechanics, abundant FUN!

I'm sure they all switched in their vocane rings, dashing subligars and repulse mantles... maybe not.

By some people's definitions, this is legit because it's just a QoL improvement, and it's not like you can get knocked into a pit or anything. Plus it's annoying and not fun.


Sure, remove anything that isn't fun. Being paralyzed isn't fun, if there's an addon to make you immune to paralyze, is that fair game? Amnesia sure is annoying, should get rid of that too. Dying isn't fun, nobody enjoys dying, set HP to 9999. Farming RP is kinda boring, let's get the program that sets your gear to max rank automatically.

Oh ***, there's no challenge anymore and we just eliminated the whole point of the game.

Obviously it's a sliding scale, obviously you're joking and obviously I'm joking as well, but...do you really think as long as you don't find something fun it's fine to change the way the game functions to remove it?

I'm going to try to stop derailing this thread because clearly I'm the only one on the other side of this issue, but if anyone out there thinks that the 5-20 ways they've modified the game don't make it easier, I think you should look a little more critically at how the game would play differently if you didn't have those things and try really hard to incorporate that into your perspective on the difference between "QoL" and a mechanical advantage

I play on controller...

Fun fact. My new controller is 1/1 on ongo V25. mind you my other controller is 1234124313/1 ( I cleared v25 twice)

I'll admit I was thinking about Aminon when I wrote that, but Lilith is a better example in your favor.

This makes me want to work on a little project, new thread coming soon :P

No, I said that I don't want to be knocked back by Aita the 1000th time I do it. Anything else is up to your dishonest interpretations.

To be fair, knockback is shitty since it doesnt affect mobs. Theres also the rarely occurring bug of mobs casting while chasing you down.

I mean, mobs can also beat the *** out of you while you're petrified or bound, good luck doing that to an enemy. There's definitely not parity between players and enemies in a lot of ways. Either way, this is the hand we're dealt unless you choose to change it. You could argue that allowing Break to last full duration on mobs like it does on us (without Stona) would be more fair and throw that ***in an addon; I'm sure it would be very popular.

I agree about having fun in the game: BUT, not everyone who plays at a high lv is cheating. I only recently swapped to gearswap after ~15 years of just macros and 5 years with gear sets. Playing all 22 jobs, I got sick of deciding what I had to delete to be more effective at another job for whatever I was doing at the time. Layering gear in macros takes hours even with gear sets. You have to make a 1 size fits 6 situations gearset and fit the rest of the specialty gear in the macro. Anyhow... It is annoying, so I gave in. BUT, I wrote my own luas and they are very simple, only swapping gear, no automated decision making.

Sortie 8 boss clear + all minis + Naks and maybe a couple other things is not hard if well is well geared and well played.

I think this is the rub; folks who might struggle with perfecting end game content yelling "cheat" While others cheating content (from my experience) lack skill when their cheats break.