Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion |
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Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Fenrir.Ahlen said: » 99 rdm sub 59 sam (mlvl 50) 204 str 184 dex 204 mnd no pdl / ws dmg gear on Only scales with mnd / dex Exact 3k imperator dmg values: so far I'm getting these for sword/imperator: 6.45 x 18.2 looks closer in line w/dagger Shiva.Myamoto said: » Reposting Disaster values from my testing with additional samples on 1k fotia and 3k tp. Hopefully this will suffice. WSC samples still a work in progress, will update when this is done. ML50 HUME WAR/SAM, STR-161+30, VIT-153+30 (Laphria +30STR & +30VIT). getting these now for gaxe/disaster with 3k having the most error: 3.23 6.13 12.8 hmmm still not enough variance in 3k? it will likely be at least 4 or 5 days until I'll have the time to play and get some more samples. Hopefully the next addition of samples will be it lol. I'll get some more numbers and repost probably in a week or so after the holidays.
Is there any other factor that could be impacting it? or is it really strictly just a numbers game so to speak? I am ensuring to lose pdl aftermath each time, and each test is done strictly no gear (or just fotia obviously) and all tp values tested were done with exact values. Bare bones testing basically. Even my wsc samples I had friends assist by giving me the associated etude and boost spell to have zero gear and consistent values. Assuming its just a "get more data" situation... but just want to clarify. Pretty sure the PDL is applied on the hit that activates it, so no need to lose the aftermath between tests unless you're going from 3k back to 2k/1k testing.
I just mentioned the 3k because it's 1.045 and the others are about 1.048, it's probably good enough. And yeah, it's really just a numbers game, you could get good spread in 2 hits or have it take 200. You can average but still you'd want a lot of hits and would probably get that type of spread on the amount you need for an average. Basically just looking for max/min for each case to be as close to 1.05 I posted disaster numbers a while ago if you look back tho look like my testing for that was short id prolly need larger sample size as well.
wsd and tp bonus for the most part, slot in some pdl for attack cap. WSC mods seem to be str and vit. No different from any other front loaded weapon skills. Gear and how much pdl will simply depend on job, buffs, debuffs and what you are fighting.
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ItemSet 364962
ItemSet 393399 Two different rings depending on which job you want to focus on. PDL swaps would be Sakpata but if you are capped PDL in these sets your hitting 99999 with warcry up. If warcry is down then you can benefit from more PDL as applicable. TP scaling seems linear for prime weaponskills so spam away. At 3000tp. 10ftp 60% STR 60% VIT fits my data. I have not tested 1k or 2k. Heathen earring+1 should be better for dark?
K123 said: » Heathen earring+1 should be better for dark? 9 PDL is better IF it’s usable. Otherwise 10str 10vit is much better. Taint said: » K123 said: » Heathen earring+1 should be better for dark? 9 PDL is better IF it’s usable. Otherwise 10str 10vit is much better. I think the community needs to have a discussion on how much PDL is reasonable. Like we know that if it's a Bolstered Idris Frailty + LS Dia II/III, then it's "As much as possible", but for situations outside that, especially where GEO isn't as viable.
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The way I've looked at it when are you not attack capped.
pretty much have have a combination of 2/3 between COR BRD GEO for everything. Add Tachi: Ageha, Armor Break, Dia, Angon, Box Step, there really not anytime you are not attack capped. WSD+ is easy with R25+ Nyame/JSE+3 so I put as much PDL in my WS sets. If don't feel like you will attack cap say a Atonment 3 V25 then have a toggle for more WSD focus. Aria song has also flexed some spots, being able to gain a big chunk of pdl without losing any wsd slots is a huge gain as traditionally you would drop wsd slots for pdl in the past. So with a soul voice Aria and PDL aftermath you may be further ahead with less pdl then you think you need.
Leviathan.Fiddle said: » The way I've looked at it when are you not attack capped. Surprisingly often as the game loves to nerf Geomancer debuffs. Most people who think they are attack capped, are not actually attack capped. SAM with Great Katana would require 4.075 times the monsters defense, without any PDL gear of buffs. The JSE neck raises that to 4.4825 times the monsters defense. This is without any other source of PDL. Aria would raise it to 5.33. Here is the approximate defense monsters of this level will have. Code 129: 1160 132: 1250 137: 1413 139: 1471 142: 1573 145: 1704 Bosses have a large bonus added making most of them clear 2~3K defense depending on content. PDL does not add attack, it only raises the cap, so it's entirely possible for someone to be capped in one set, then put in PDL and then be under cap. Idris Frailty + Dia II or III is a super easy way to jack our cRatio multiplier up, but once Frailty stops being an option then things get interesting.
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Speaking of attack, has anyone tested any of the prime WSs to see if any of them have cRatio bonuses?
PDL in gear or not mostly depends on content.
Taking Sam as an example and stage 4 prime, here are some real world examples where extra PDL in gear, feet empy+3 for 10% PDL replacing nyame, adds more than nyame. This is without Aria.
Easier to find content where it is not beneficial.
Anything else? The "need 4-5x attack" is rather blown out of proportion. With non-geo sources of defense down you have - dia2 15%, 18% if light shot. 25% from ageha alone. With just those three you get 43% def down or turning a 1700 def mob into a 969 def mob. For 969 need 4845 attack, which can be reached with crooked chaos and SV minuets. That's for a conservative def down estimate and no geo. Some mobs have higher def even if they are lvl 149/150, like sortie basement bosses. For those WSD will do better and might have Aria for them in any case. Dia3 + light shot and 5 box step takes that def down to 61% with ageha or angon.
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Dodik said: » The "need 4-5x attack" is rather blown out of proportion. With non-geo sources of defense down you have - dia2 15%, 18% if light shot. 25% from ageha alone. Your not doing Ageha or Dia on every mob you fight, you are engaging and racing to WS it. Bosses are where Ageha / Dia / etc come into play. I gave the defense values per monster level, you can find out the targets level with an addon. Bosses have a large bonus of a few hundred or more depending. For example, Tojil has 1800~1900 defense even though it's level 119 or 120. Gaol bosses have 3K+ at V25, except Bee which I think is around ~2500. PDL does not give you attack, it only raises the ceiling that your pDiff is clamped. The point being that going full PDL is normally a bad idea outside of when we're dropping the bosses defense to low digits. Some PDL would be beneficial but how much is something we gotta kinda figure out as a guideline.
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Asura.Saevel said: » PDL does not give you attack, it only raises the ceiling that your pDiff is clamped. Bosses are the only place where ageha/dia matters. The rest is just chaos roll and minuets.
I am aware what pdl does. I was giving examples from experience where it added damage, and with what buffs (chaos/minuets, as above). YMMV. Dodik said: » Bosses are the only place where ageha/dia matters. The rest is just chaos roll and minuets. I am aware what pdl does. I was giving examples from experience where it added damage, and with what buffs (chaos/minuets, as above). YMMV. Dodik said: » 25% from ageha alone. You are talking like def down WS is always an option, when it isn't. There is plenty of NMs with low % resist rank (lower = stronger against that element) against wind, which will just resist the def down effect. So is Angon wind based or physical? And if it is physical can it miss?
Looking through older posts it seems like angon is guaranteed to land, so guess it'd fall under ooze In today's day and age base box step should be included as a standard form of def down as well for most things. The COR or BRD can almost always sub DNC and get you that extra 13% def down. Honestly I prefer /DNC on COR anyway for the extra SC bonus.
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Cerberus.Arivana said: » So is Angon wind based or physical? And if it is physical can it miss?
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Cerberus.Arivana said: » So is Angon wind based or physical? And if it is physical can it miss? Angon is Defense Down, as in the debuff called "Defense Down", the same as Acid Bolts, Armor Break and a bunch of others. That debuff itself is wind element, but there is no MACC check on Angon, it's just applied for 90s. Valefor.Prothescar said: » In today's day and age base box step should be included as a standard form of def down as well for most things. The COR or BRD can almost always sub DNC and get you that extra 13% def down. Honestly I prefer /DNC on COR anyway for the extra SC bonus. On bosses, definitely. On regular mobs, you don't have time to apply them. Then again which bosses we talking about because the only ones I can think of that have enough HP to make non-presto Box Step worth using is Gaol and Dyna D. Gaol you don't have SJ's, and Dyna D your Idris Frailty + LS Dia II should be enough. For seg farm, your COR and BRD aren't applying Box Step on floors 3/4, they are racing to Savage. Sortie, your not messing with the regular mobs in the basement, the bosses have a lot of defense though so I can see Box Step there, except for H boss, Bolster Frailty + LS Dia II obliterates his defense and you need him dead in under 60s anyway. On regular mobs it doesn't matter because they die in 1 or 2 WS anyway, so discussing minmax for them is irrelevant to begin with.
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