Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
Doesn't look like 3.75 at all. More like 6.5
Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Doesn't look like 3.75 at all. More like 6.5
Taint said: »
I put this in the Fimb thread but maybe I'll get more responses here.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57493/a-desperate-plea-for-fimbulvetr-testing/2/#3687781
The estimate was 9.5 ftp with 50% STR VIT mods but that doesn't fit my data sample at all and I was hoping someone could pick it apart.
I've been testing this for fun using PLD/SAM.
Elvaan PLD/SAM
Naked with Stage 4
STR 159+30
VIT 159+30
3000tp only, Wild Rabbits
(318dmg+43fstr+189(50%mod))=550 * 9.5 = 5225 * 3.85 (/sam) = 20116 * 1.1 AM3 = 22127
What am I doing wrong?
Data below:
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57493/a-desperate-plea-for-fimbulvetr-testing/2/#3687781
The estimate was 9.5 ftp with 50% STR VIT mods but that doesn't fit my data sample at all and I was hoping someone could pick it apart.
I've been testing this for fun using PLD/SAM.
Elvaan PLD/SAM
Naked with Stage 4
STR 159+30
VIT 159+30
3000tp only, Wild Rabbits
(318dmg+43fstr+189(50%mod))=550 * 9.5 = 5225 * 3.85 (/sam) = 20116 * 1.1 AM3 = 22127
What am I doing wrong?
Data below:
I corrected the 9.5 number the next day, the final numbers I came out for fimb were 3,6,9 ftp with 48-50% str/vit. But yea thats in the opposite direction of what's going here so I don't really know. Even if you had hasso up or something it wouldnt affect damage that much.
Edit: Ok ran the numbers again and they work out almost perfectly if I assume you're on war/sam instead of pld/sam. Were you on war and thought you were on pld?
Shiva.Myamoto said: »
hmmmm I suppose I should have arranged my values listed for Disaster from highest to lowest for convenience... lol my bad. Was wondering why there was crickets for a few days haha
My numbers in my post above was regurgitated as recorded.
Edited my previous post on Disaster values.
My numbers in my post above was regurgitated as recorded.
Edited my previous post on Disaster values.
I put your data into my sheet when you first posted, but when I calculated max/min some of the spreads were too close to calculate accurate values
1k 2k 2kf 3kf are fine
1k fotia is only 3.5% spread need to be closer to ~5%
1kf 3k need more data (same with vit and a few more for str)
Thanks for your work collecting these, if you are able to get a wider spread for the 4 I listed we should be able to get that calculated
-----------------------------------
Hume ML33 SAM/BLM
370 STR 1k/3k || 316 STR 2k
352 DEX 1k/3k || 332 DEX 2k
0% WSD (All weaponskills done from behind to avoid Overwhelm)
PDL: + 51/256 (T2 Trait) * 10% 1k/3k (AM3) || * 8%(7%?) 2k (AM2)
-----------------------------------
1000TP (10559 - 11040; 4.36%)
2000TP (19438 - 20355; 4.51%)
3000TP (31617 - 33167; 4.67%)
1000TP Fotia (10866 - 11354; 4.30%)
3000TP Fotia (31921 - 33470; 4.63%)
Not doing any math rn since I have other ***to do but here's the beginning of the Mumei data. It's enough to get a range. Will run numbers and get closer to 4.7~4.8% when I have time.
Hume ML33 SAM/BLM
370 STR 1k/3k || 316 STR 2k
352 DEX 1k/3k || 332 DEX 2k
0% WSD (All weaponskills done from behind to avoid Overwhelm)
PDL: + 51/256 (T2 Trait) * 10% 1k/3k (AM3) || * 8%(7%?) 2k (AM2)
-----------------------------------
1000TP (10559 - 11040; 4.36%)
2000TP (19438 - 20355; 4.51%)
3000TP (31617 - 33167; 4.67%)
1000TP Fotia (10866 - 11354; 4.30%)
3000TP Fotia (31921 - 33470; 4.63%)
Not doing any math rn since I have other ***to do but here's the beginning of the Mumei data. It's enough to get a range. Will run numbers and get closer to 4.7~4.8% when I have time.
I'll get some more numbers tomorrow and repost then ^^ thanks for the feedback though, haven't done this before.
from your Mumei numbers looks like it could be:
3.4 / x / 10.4
I did my own testing and still need some more samples but I'm around:
3.65 / 7.19 / 10.69 str55 dex51 (2k and str with the lowest confidence, might just be str50% dex50%)
Looks like we're in the same ballpark at least, I'll try and refine my numbers as well
3.4 / x / 10.4
I did my own testing and still need some more samples but I'm around:
3.65 / 7.19 / 10.69 str55 dex51 (2k and str with the lowest confidence, might just be str50% dex50%)
Looks like we're in the same ballpark at least, I'll try and refine my numbers as well
So... about the hidden effect it's present on Stage 4 too but it's 2x Damage whereas for Stage 5 it's 3x damage.
Any rough estimate on the proc rate?
Used to be like ~7% on the original lv75 Relic Weapons but it scaled up to ~16% on the reforged level 99 and onwards.
What are we looking at for proc rate here? Prothescar said he got the feeling the proc rate was much higher, but 16% is not really that rare, is it now?
I could expect a 20% or even 25% proc rate from Primes, but that's not really "much higher" than the Relic one.
And anything above 25% seems a bit unlikely to me? I mean Empyrean aftermath is 30/40/50 % proc rate...
And here you don't even have to activate it with Aftermath. Similarly to Divergence weapons path A where the rate is 50% and doesn't need an aftermath to activate (but it's "only" 2x damage, Empy is 3x like Stage 5)
Any rough estimate on the proc rate?
Used to be like ~7% on the original lv75 Relic Weapons but it scaled up to ~16% on the reforged level 99 and onwards.
What are we looking at for proc rate here? Prothescar said he got the feeling the proc rate was much higher, but 16% is not really that rare, is it now?
I could expect a 20% or even 25% proc rate from Primes, but that's not really "much higher" than the Relic one.
And anything above 25% seems a bit unlikely to me? I mean Empyrean aftermath is 30/40/50 % proc rate...
And here you don't even have to activate it with Aftermath. Similarly to Divergence weapons path A where the rate is 50% and doesn't need an aftermath to activate (but it's "only" 2x damage, Empy is 3x like Stage 5)
Isn't it the first hit of an attack round?
Atrox78 said: »
Isn't it the first hit of an attack round?
Regardless what we know is that undoubtely it can only proc max once per attack round.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Atrox78 said: »
Isn't it the first hit of an attack round?
Regardless what we know is that undoubtely it can only proc max once per attack round.
We know for sure. It's first attack of the round only, like relics. It was also 30% on stage 4.
30%? Seems like quite a big proc rate. Are we one hundred % sure the sample we have is large enough to exclude lower proc rates?
I mean 30% is not unreasonable but... large. If for Stage5 it truly is triple damage like someone said (and double for stage4) then it's almost the same as Empy AM1.
With the difference that Empy can proc on any hit performed with the weapon for every attack round, so for sure that's a pretty big difference I guess xD
I mean 30% is not unreasonable but... large. If for Stage5 it truly is triple damage like someone said (and double for stage4) then it's almost the same as Empy AM1.
With the difference that Empy can proc on any hit performed with the weapon for every attack round, so for sure that's a pretty big difference I guess xD
Asura.Sechs said: »
With the difference that Empy can proc on any hit performed with the weapon for every attack round, so for sure that's a pretty big difference I guess xD
It's a massive difference, especially for jobs that gets most use of that like WAR with 100% DA (and some QA/ta) or THF with 60%+ TA or RNG during Double Shot, especially that 2nd hit of double shot is the stronger one. It's still good bonus though, especially on something like DRK, who doesn't have that much MA. For MNK on the other hand, Veret has shitty proc mechanic like relics too, so Prime h2h is more competitive for white damage.
Overall it's not as strong as Empty AM3 where you can make whole build around white damage like on Ukon WAR for example, but it's another big pros for already busted weapons.
SimonSes said: »
For MNK on the other hand, Veret has shitty proc mechanic like relics too, so Prime h2h is more competitive for white damage.
Asura.Sechs said: »
SimonSes said: »
For MNK on the other hand, Veret has shitty proc mechanic like relics too, so Prime h2h is more competitive for white damage.
That sheet info was about overall DPS not just white damage.
White damage only, Prime S5 assuming it's 30%ODT, it has potential to match or slightly beat Veret. Even for overall DPS it has that potential using Vsmite instead of its own WS (after you get AM3 up and has enough attack to fully use it) and if buffs/scenario favors how impactful is that 15% critical hit rate, but even then, they are head to head.
Well Vere has lower damage (and delay) and a slight bonus to Vsmite damage, but it also has 50% OTD instead of 30% OTD.
But Prime has higher damage and PDL aftermath and doesn't require 3000% tp to activate the OTD
So... yeah I guess, different pros and cons but I bet they gotta be pretty close to each other.
But Prime has higher damage and PDL aftermath and doesn't require 3000% tp to activate the OTD
So... yeah I guess, different pros and cons but I bet they gotta be pretty close to each other.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Well Vere has lower damage (and delay) and a slight bonus to Vsmite damage, but it also has 50% OTD instead of 30% OTD.
But Prime has higher damage and PDL aftermath and doesn't require 3000% tp to activate the OTD
So... yeah I guess, different pros and cons but I bet they gotta be pretty close to each other.
But Prime has higher damage and PDL aftermath and doesn't require 3000% tp to activate the OTD
So... yeah I guess, different pros and cons but I bet they gotta be pretty close to each other.
One important thing is we have almost 100% (or 100%) kick attacks in most builds now and veret having lower delay benefits here, because that extra KA damage is the same for both weapons, but it's on lower delay with Veret.
Another factor against stronger mobs is fSTR. Veret has more STR, so assuming fSTR is not capped, Veret closes the base damage gap here.
Veret also has higher attack (from STR) while at the same time not having 12% additional PDL as condition for it's competitive DPS.
[+]
Well Att from STR is ~43,7 for Vere and ~21,7 for Varga.
But Varga also has +8 skill, which gives a bit more of att, so the difference is not that huge.
Also that +8 skill at ML50 means +1 base damage as well, for what it's worth.
Last but not least Varga has +15 DEX over Vere (dDEX crit rate) and 15% Crit rate, so there's that to consider as well as a contributor to white damage and a small gap-closing boost to VSmite compared to Vere's 10% VS DMG boost.
Whichever way you want to look at them, they've gotta be pretty close to each other for sure.
Then there's the huge difference in terms of time/effort/commitment in getting an Aug Vere vs getting a Stage 5 Prime.
That in addition to the fact one might be attracted by more than one Prime and with that in mind it's pretty obvious how, especially for someone who already owns Vere, Varga Purnikawa might not exactly look as a priority, hard to deny that alas =/
But Varga also has +8 skill, which gives a bit more of att, so the difference is not that huge.
Also that +8 skill at ML50 means +1 base damage as well, for what it's worth.
Last but not least Varga has +15 DEX over Vere (dDEX crit rate) and 15% Crit rate, so there's that to consider as well as a contributor to white damage and a small gap-closing boost to VSmite compared to Vere's 10% VS DMG boost.
Whichever way you want to look at them, they've gotta be pretty close to each other for sure.
Then there's the huge difference in terms of time/effort/commitment in getting an Aug Vere vs getting a Stage 5 Prime.
That in addition to the fact one might be attracted by more than one Prime and with that in mind it's pretty obvious how, especially for someone who already owns Vere, Varga Purnikawa might not exactly look as a priority, hard to deny that alas =/
Yea, 100 percent sure. I see on every attack round of the polearm. Just like relics. Also, definitely only appears to be double dmg on stage 4. No idea if it goes up at stage 5. Will let you know in six months XD
Asura.Sechs said: »
Well Att from STR is ~43,7 for Vere and ~21,7 for Varga.
Come on Seshs, it's 1att per 1STR for like 7(?) years now :)
Can anyone confirm with the imperator numbers I posted if the JP numbers are in line? If they already have the correct values I won't waste hours of my life doing 2k / 3k testing
Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
Can anyone confirm with the imperator numbers I posted if the JP numbers are in line? If they already have the correct values I won't waste hours of my life doing 2k / 3k testing
I can't read Japanese, but using google translate on that video it looks like they did 5 samples (w/ fotia x2), averaged 1k 2k 3k values and used 1 hit from savage blade and the equation (dmg +27 + stats) * ftp * pdif * WSD to back calc imperator values. I can't tell if they guessed at the stat mods?
SimonSes said: »
Doesn't look like 3.75 at all. More like 6.5
Also, from the values you listed (and what Simon Saids) I'm getting way higher ftp at 1k for your numbers than that video (about 6.45)
something fishy with that videos numbers, could use a full set of tests (your 1k values are pretty solid, just need 2k/2kf 3k/3kf 1kMND+ 1kDEX+)
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Well Att from STR is ~43,7 for Vere and ~21,7 for Varga.
Come on Seshs, it's 1att per 1STR for like 7(?) years now :)
That's what I remembered, but then I went to BG-Wiki to see if I was wrong and saw different data and thought "good thing I came to doublecheck, I was wrong!"
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Strength
Guess we should edit this then, last update is indeed in 2015.
Edit:
There, I updated the page! About time, you slackers! :-P
Guyford said: »
Taint said: »
I put this in the Fimb thread but maybe I'll get more responses here.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57493/a-desperate-plea-for-fimbulvetr-testing/2/#3687781
The estimate was 9.5 ftp with 50% STR VIT mods but that doesn't fit my data sample at all and I was hoping someone could pick it apart.
I've been testing this for fun using PLD/SAM.
Elvaan PLD/SAM
Naked with Stage 4
STR 159+30
VIT 159+30
3000tp only, Wild Rabbits
(318dmg+43fstr+189(50%mod))=550 * 9.5 = 5225 * 3.85 (/sam) = 20116 * 1.1 AM3 = 22127
What am I doing wrong?
Data below:
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57493/a-desperate-plea-for-fimbulvetr-testing/2/#3687781
The estimate was 9.5 ftp with 50% STR VIT mods but that doesn't fit my data sample at all and I was hoping someone could pick it apart.
I've been testing this for fun using PLD/SAM.
Elvaan PLD/SAM
Naked with Stage 4
STR 159+30
VIT 159+30
3000tp only, Wild Rabbits
(318dmg+43fstr+189(50%mod))=550 * 9.5 = 5225 * 3.85 (/sam) = 20116 * 1.1 AM3 = 22127
What am I doing wrong?
Data below:
I corrected the 9.5 number the next day, the final numbers I came out for fimb were 3,6,9 ftp with 48-50% str/vit. But yea thats in the opposite direction of what's going here so I don't really know. Even if you had hasso up or something it wouldnt affect damage that much.
Edit: Ok ran the numbers again and they work out almost perfectly if I assume you're on war/sam instead of pld/sam. Were you on war and thought you were on pld?
Nope 100% on PLD, used flash to pull the mobs.
I'm going to re run my test now. On PLD/SMN. First Fimb 24871.
184 STR (154+30)
184 VIT (154+30)
FTP 10.0 (3000tp) 60% STR 60% VIT fits.
Testing WAR/SMN to compare. Will post results in an hour or so.
190 STR
181 VIT
I can do 3k numbers later (2k takes the longest) took me 30 min just to find a perfect set that gets me to exact 1k tp with ws + shooting bow lol. Then 2 hours of killing mobs to get just 1k numbers :(. I'll try to get 3k tomorrow maybe.
On the plus side, the astral boxes make getting TP a little faster than usual
Reposting Disaster values from my testing with additional samples on 1k fotia and 3k tp. Hopefully this will suffice. WSC samples still a work in progress, will update when this is done.
ML50 HUME WAR/SAM, STR-161+30, VIT-153+30 (Laphria +30STR & +30VIT).
ML50 HUME WAR/SAM, STR-161+30, VIT-153+30 (Laphria +30STR & +30VIT).
Not that I don't share your sentiment, but that was known long before we unlocked the WS on stage 3?
I mean, after all they are the same model (just different colour) as the Relics. The WS animation is the same too!
In hindsight this gives me mixed feelings.
On one hand it's quite a let down that the new (and atm the best!) legendary weapons is just a lazy rehash of Relics in all graphical aspects.
On the other hand it sorta feels like a way to honour Relic weapons, which let me remind you were the "original" legendary weapons of FFXI.
So... I dunno, I love it and hate it at the same time let's say.
I mean, after all they are the same model (just different colour) as the Relics. The WS animation is the same too!
In hindsight this gives me mixed feelings.
On one hand it's quite a let down that the new (and atm the best!) legendary weapons is just a lazy rehash of Relics in all graphical aspects.
On the other hand it sorta feels like a way to honour Relic weapons, which let me remind you were the "original" legendary weapons of FFXI.
So... I dunno, I love it and hate it at the same time let's say.
[+]
99 rdm sub 59 sam (mlvl 50)
204 str
184 dex
204 mnd
no pdl / ws dmg gear on
Only scales with mnd / dex
Exact 3k imperator dmg values:
3k
22195
22208
22226
22243
22275
22288
22318
22322
22323
22339
22400
22440
22446
22464
22522
22524
22526
22533
22550
22592
22597
22624
22645
22649
22652
22705
22713
22721
22861
22888
22908
22987
23031
23046
23059
23086
23107
23122
23127
23140
23178
23192
23207
23240
23251
23252
3k fotia
22317
22331
22363
22389
22401
22407
22472
22477
22493
22515
22525
22557
22577
22593
22685
22690
22739
22741
22764
22792
22828
22850
22875
22902
22910
22935
22937
22948
22949
22950
23022
23031
23104
23155
23205
23214
23234
23241
23246
23251
23259
23305
23329
23335
23382
23395
Edited forgot to reorder first list
204 str
184 dex
204 mnd
no pdl / ws dmg gear on
Only scales with mnd / dex
Exact 3k imperator dmg values:
3k
22195
22208
22226
22243
22275
22288
22318
22322
22323
22339
22400
22440
22446
22464
22522
22524
22526
22533
22550
22592
22597
22624
22645
22649
22652
22705
22713
22721
22861
22888
22908
22987
23031
23046
23059
23086
23107
23122
23127
23140
23178
23192
23207
23240
23251
23252
3k fotia
22317
22331
22363
22389
22401
22407
22472
22477
22493
22515
22525
22557
22577
22593
22685
22690
22739
22741
22764
22792
22828
22850
22875
22902
22910
22935
22937
22948
22949
22950
23022
23031
23104
23155
23205
23214
23234
23241
23246
23251
23259
23305
23329
23335
23382
23395
Edited forgot to reorder first list
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