Harpe Vs. SK

Adding the same amount to both will VERY MUCH CHANGE the outcome. It's not the same as multiplying them by the same number, like FTP.

All i need is a rdm and a brd and can go whenever rly

cant argue with you there it is a bit hard to understand compared to vegetto and reays maths.

Yea he's not systematic w/ it at all, the numbers all come out of nowhere which is why it's so confusing and I don't know wtf he's trying to say. have to have a layout and a format. If this was a mathematics or physics course, he'd fail showing that amount of work, even if his answer was correct.

Really? Last time I checked 1071+400 is still < 1142+400. Perhaps I missed something where adding a set amount of something to 2 different numbers actually increases them by different amounts.

What I go step by step in order as much as an order there can be. I could label stuff more but really figured you could follow along 1 step at a time especially with all numbers accounted for ahead of time.

1142/1071 = 6.629% increase

1542/1471 = 4.8% increase

It's less of an increase to your damage.

Dasva, why are you arguing with someone who actually understands the game's mechanics? God damn stop it already.

When you add a constant to both sides, you do not maintain the same ratio typically (unless the numbers are both equal beforehand).

(10 * 2) vs (20 * 2) is a ratio of 1:2.

(10 + 5) * 2 vs (20 + 5) * 2 is not a ratio of 1:2.

It's 3:5. 3:5 is also bigger than 1:2 (3/5 > 1/2), so the constant has affected the lower number more (in terms of a percentage change).

This is because the constant (5 in this case) is a fraction of the original value. 5/10 and 5/20 (1/2 and 1/4 respectively). IE, sorry for the confusing terminology here, but the relative value of the constant is... well, not constant. <_<!

When you multiply, you are multiplying it by a constant fraction of that value (x2 = 2/1, x0.5 = 1/2, etc etc). The relative value of a multiplication therefore remains constant.

Its the same exact reason why double attack stacking gets worse rather than better. Your amount of attacks goes up each time adding a smaller % of attacks.

Rather than something like haste making your delay go down(instead of up) making it better the more you add.

Donno if thatsd the best alalogy for this but basically what im trying to say is the bigger your base number the smaller adding to it increases its %.

This may help you
http://www.free-ed.net/free-ed/Math/PreAlg01/default.asp

Sorry I'm a bit past that.

If you look closely I have repeatidly said yes it affects the precentage. And if you look again that I've said again that that wasn't what I was going for. Just which one would be bigger not by what percentage it would be other than they are rather close


Lol cause there is nothing wrong with what I've argued

Percentage is what matters in the end. It's what used to compare increase to damage and decrease to damage. Your numbers being "the same increase" by adding 400 to both is irrelevant to anything even close to being halfway important.

Normally yes. But as is pharpe/blau won by a whooping .24% to begin with factoring in SA and TA to make that difference even smaller is pointless at best.

Just to throw some parses in here showing TP/WS damage distribution...

A few important notes!

1. These are not epeen parses. These are all at bird camp where THF does very well and I don't think buffs were ideal in any of them (if you see my accuracy is 90%+, it is because we were receiving a Madrigal). My gear was a lot weaker then. Plus, I'm a THF - can hardly expect exceptional parties. My competition was very lacking in a couple of places.
2. I am not making a statement about THF DD prowess or lack thereof. I'm perfectly aware of <insert Polearm SAM here> things etc etc.
3. SA/TA damage will be added to melee damage, and I solo SA and TA a lot. Only time I would've stacked a WS was if I was doing epeen Hide thing/getting lazy (toward the end of each session probably) or just had it conveniently set up to do so.

This is just to show proportions of melee and WS damages. Blau/Sirocco.

I wanna use X's Knife/sirocco.

But for body im using a Hecca harness do you think antr. harness is better to use on ws dmg? and what about gorget > torque?

I play a mithra my set up atm is as follows.

An > means what i want to change.

My set up is SA>DE and i do TA>AC>MS (this does 1k+ on HNM's and ***)

Items in () are what i use for TA macro.

TP:

TH knife > X's
sirocco
Ziska
Wturban
love torque
brutal
pixie
rap harness
homam hands
ulthalam's ring
rajas ring
Cerb +1
Vbelt
homam legs
homam feet

WS:

TH kinfe > X's
sirocco
ziska
Hecca cap
love torque
pixie earring
brutal earring
Hecca body > antr. harness? (Denali body)
af+1 hands > hecca mits? need the abj (AF hands +1)
ulthalam's ring
rajas ring
Cerb +1
warwolf belt
hecca legs
hecca feet

My logic on the TA>MS as flawed as it may or may not be is TA = agi so i want to use some nice agi bonus pieces in slots that dont need acc. Since MS is 2 hits it needs less acc so im thinking antr. harness will benifit both SA and TA ws's and that way i dont need to TA>MS in denali body i can get MS's dex mod and TA's agi mod with antr. harness.

@off topic: which parse program you use?

P.S: thank you veg, I have rdm but i need gear him best :/

It won't be pointless at best, it'll be the diff to tip that .24 and then some to make Blau/Sirroco the slight winner instead of the other way around. And we haven't even added in the wind damage. and the fact that the % increase was if DoT was 100% of the damage, which it is not. The WS damage being a lower increase than the DoT increase from DMG+ is going to lower pharp/blau as well.

The one in the pic was Kparse

X/Blau will be better! I must restate this though: HATE YOUR X'S KNIFE

Unless you're capping accuracy, I'd use Antares Harness on every single weaponskill except Mercy Stroke over Hecatomb Harness. If you're capping accuracy, Dragon Harness is the way to go.

SB/Mercy/Mandalic: Gorget. Evis: Torque. DE: Million dollar question right there. The math behind it is very complicated and annoying. Basically: if you don't have Love Torque(/Ancient Torque), definitely use Gorget. If you do... I'd probably opt to use Love Torque when stacking and Gorget when not, but it's honestly far from clear cut.

Mithran THF is so sexy.

TP:

Carry around a Fire Bomblet or Bomb Core if not using bolts: these are amazing items. Cuchulain's Mantle is better than even Cerberus +1 if your accuracy is uncapped.

WS:

Looks great for SADE. Antares over Heca yah. Dragon Harness if acc-capped. Obviously Heca instead of AF+1 hands for SADE.

TAMandalic I'd probably stick to Gorget, Drone/Genin will outdo Pixie unless you've got a SA component in there (barely). Antares instead of Denali: your logic below is correct. AF+1 hands are the hands of choice for TA-component weaponskills except perhaps TADE/Evis if you have the +1 Hecamitts. Iota Ring is quite nice for TAMandalic. Breeze Ring will probably slightly outdo it so long as there is no SA component present.

Side note: Bomb Core is useful for Mandalic Stabs and solo SAs/TAs even if TPing in a Fire Bomblet!

Very sexy THF though!

yea i have a fire bomblet i dont merit on thf though usually on brd or sam i campain on thf and drk so usually go thf/nin and use bolts for HP.

Thf was my first 75 and since i only have 4 75's there all very well geared my accounts canceled till the end of the month when i can pay the bill lol so i cant finish my pld which is stacked as well even though its only 54 so bummed i cant play im trolling the forums QQ

Not it can't change which is bigger if you add the same amount to each one. Pharpe/blau will still do the same amount of dmg more and but as you add more dmg the percentage more will be less.

1000+1trillion is still > then 999+1trillion though at that point no one gives a ***since by percentage it is still close.


Yeah wind dmg will make a difference enough to actually pull it slightly higher.

It doesn't matter where you add the SA dmg at all. Adding 300 dmg to a ws and adding it to a melee attack is mostly going to do the same thing to your combine dmg, which is what I was figuring so I could get a overall dps. (granted your SA set doesn't have haste probably so yeah that will change things slightly and ws/sa set might have more attack)

Blau/sirroco already wins dude.

The calculation was 100% DoT and nothing ws dmg. Unless you plan to never ws at all, or unless the increase during WS is equal or greater to that of my DoT calculation (WHICH IT IS NOT) then the calculation I did will change once you factor in ws dmg.

If you paid attention the whole point was factoring in ws dmg. Also comparing % increase in dmg in dot vs ws doesn't really mean anything. That is the whole reason of doing absolutes on this.

For example:
lets say in a set amount of time you melee 1k dmg and ws 500

lets say in same amount of time with different weapons you melee 1.1k and ws 400.

Second set has your DOT dmg being 10% higher than the first. First set has ws dmg being 25% higher than the second. Yet the overall dmg is the same in the same amount of time.

Here, watch
I will go more into detail w/ this

178(33)+210(37) = 388(70) delay(dmg)
178(33)+150(26) = 328(59) delay(dmg)

1/(328/388) = 18.29% increase in DoT and WS frequency than Pharp/blau

70/30 DoT/WS ratio

TP:
59/70 = 84.29% of DoT damage

Using YOUR calculated numbers for ws dmg91.14/97.14 = 93.82% of the WS DMG

(.8429 x .7) + (.9382 x .3) = 87.149% of the average DMG as Pharp/blau

1.1829 x .87148 = 103.09% of the damage of Pharp/blau = 3.09% increase

If your DoT decreases and WS increases (Like if your ratio goes to 60/40 instead of 70/30) then Blau/Sirroco gains even more of an advantage.

And again, this is before looking at wind damage.

Pharp/Blau is the inferior combo. AND this was based on the fact that you even got that extra 2 FSTR. In any situation where you don't the increase will be even greater on Blau/Sirroco combo.

this is very amusing but you want to use the Sirocco for off hand for the delay -

delay 1 + delay 2 - w/e % for dual wield = attack speed

blau = 178
sirocco = 150

150+178 = 328



Pharpe = 210
blau = 150

210+178= 388*

i attack fast i have more dot i have -2 dmg then you but i still attack faster so i still do more dot because you need more then +2 dmg on me to beat me in dot across the board with tp and ws because i tp faster i ws more

This is assuming you can add like i can and can read at a 1st grade level.

in short Pharpe needs to have more dmg difference on blau

and if you cant add

210>150

and if you cant read then thats another story

i dont mean to bring you down but thats it cut and dry Veg is right.

i can be wrong im not perfect but this is how i see it im not looking and w/e fstr is and that stuff just using simple easy to understand numbers to justify my logic.

Blau is 178

388 delay

First mistake assuming that your increase in dot results in same increase in ws frequency. It doesn't.

Second mistake you are assuming a ratio of DOT to ws dmg. I actually calculated them both out.

Again this works on assumptions that don't work out in the math unless you are holding onto tp but then that kills your DOT on blau. Again this is assuming a 18.29% increase in ws frequency which just isn't true. There is no more tp floor. Lowering your delay will lower your tp gain per hit. But while blau/sir attacks 18% faster harpe/blau gets 6.66% more tp per hit. Then figuring in you have to get to at least 100% so rounding in this case will favor harpe/blau more unless you have enough more store tp than I calculated for


True. If it was in favor to begin with.

My assumed ratio FAVORED YOUR SET UP. Was giving your set up the benefit of the doubt. Find me a thf that parses under 30% WS dmg.

As for the delay
you cna't rly go balls to the wall w/ that ***anyways cause then triple and double attack as well as acc factors in to how many rounds it takes to 100% tp

Rough approximate. I'll give you the 1 less round to 100 tp on Pharp/Blau, but again, I didn't factor in wind damage, nor did I factor in FSTR, both of which will hurt Pharp's situation.