The simpler point, the root of the point is that if you fix the most broken thing they will simply use the next most broken thing. Always. Every time.
And you fix that thing and they move to the next most broken thing.
Until you fix so many broken things that you actually balance the game properly. and then everyone quits cause they can't have their way. yippie.
Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...
Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I understand the point, but there is more to it. Naegling has that broken stat on it where it increases attack by % for buffs on yourself. That's also a very very big part of Savage Blade/Naegling hype, as jobs with weaker native attack can hit very high without an endless line of buffs. That's not necessarily the case with the other ws. If you used other ws you mentioned, you would not get the same kind of damage that Savage puts out, especially from reso, which suffers from attack penalty (which we even tried on Bumba and it was noticeably weaker).
Yes so we'd kill it in 2~3 minutes instead of in under 2 minutes. How many folks have the GEO just standing around the whole time?
Quote:
I really hope this isn't it. . . please no Mboze V25. Please!
I don't think they could implement V25 nms without scuffing them stupidly hard anyway. The way the atonement NM's HP scales is roughly double with each Veng tier. On veng 5 they have around 600K HP, on V 10 its closer to 1.2 mil, and at Veng 15 it's around 2.3 mil. If that trend continued then even if the HP wasn't doubled each tier you'd still be looking at 4.5 million HP or so by veng 25. Ongo would be literally unkillable with that much HP and even higher INT and elemental resistances to accompany the higher Ilvls, and given his mechanics I'm pretty sure Mboze would be too. Even the simpler NM's like kalunga and arrebati would become veritable fortresses with that much HP. The 15 minute time limit would really become an issue when the nms become damage sponges of that magnitude.
Asura.Geriond said: »
There's a couple examples of SE nerfing a specific ability or mechanic in general when it was abused too hard, but I can't think of any area-specific nerfs being added later.
They added the nuke wall and nerfed BST pet WS range when they were used to kill Aeonics easily, they nerfed Modus Veritas and Souleater for their kills of Absolute Virtue, and they nerfed Embrava after it was used in every fight for Legion.
They added the nuke wall and nerfed BST pet WS range when they were used to kill Aeonics easily, they nerfed Modus Veritas and Souleater for their kills of Absolute Virtue, and they nerfed Embrava after it was used in every fight for Legion.
In 2006, they added the nerf where only the first magic attack spell landed during a small duration of time landed for full potency. It was in response to manaburn alliances (yeah, alliances full of BLMs) cheesing content. It was applied globally and not just to specific NMs.
Something similar where the first instance of the same WS gets full potency for a small duration of time would be grand. I have suggested making it specifically a consecutive WS nerf, where if two of the same WS are done back to back during a small duration, the follower gets the nerf bat in potential. If ~6 brain dead DDs and support jobs use Savage Blade back to back, then all 5 of the followers get hit.
Quote:
Melphina's post above
Would definitely be a pretty interesting challenge and gives us something to do for the next few months with those shiny new Master Levels. If folks followed the JP method for Ongo, there would be enough time to do it, as they can do it in a manner of ~4 minutes.
Asura.Aldolol said: »
Isn't this the same as Rank 15 REMA weapons, and other augmented ranks in the game? they go up to 30 but not necessarily implemented yet. Considering most seem to be rocking unaugment gear I'd say an update to make things easier before it gets harder again is more apt. But this is SE so who *** knows, one things for sure Mboze at V30 is gonna be horrendous if it is a thing.
No the system is built to handle R30 but has never gone past max augment Rank SE added at the time besides Tier 3 Ody gear. T1, T2, and even T4 which came out the next month after T3. Did not have any info after R20. What I was saying is since I first dumped that info T1,T2, and T4 have now been filled in up to R30.
Since last night I redumped unity(R15), dyna d necks/weapons(R15,R20,R25), and REMAs(R15) they all still only have info up to what was set but now Odyssey T1,T2, and T4 have been filled out to R30. I tried dumping these up to R30 but they still cap out as they did before besides the Odyssey gear.
[+]
R30 Nyame stats are ridiculous.
A: 13sTP on Feet/Legs/Head, 14 on Hands and 15 on Body. 68 total, so 18 more than Malignance. Also 29%PDL total and 70 acc/racc/macc per piece (Like 50more acc total than Malignance and even more racc), which is huge for all non ilvl offhands.
B: 11%WSD/5DA% on Feet/Hands/Head, 12%WSD/6%DA on Legs and 13%WSD/7%DA on Body.
It shits on every WSD pieces in game. DA% goes up from 12% to 28% making it a great TP set too and VERY good WS set for multihits too. Many people think WSD is useless for multihit, but its not useless, its just way less effective. 58%WSD (its 15%WSD more from R20 to R30) on 5hit WS will still boost damage by almost 12% tho. Which is the same as having +30%DA on that 5hit WS (assuming ftp replication).
Im getting 16% increase on NIN hybrid WSs too.
C: From base Nyame to R30 path C hands/body/legs it's 69% increase on NIN :Ni bursts and 66% increase on :San bursts
D: Even this start to be interesting with 80 acc and macc for pets on each piece and 11% pet damage on body and 10% on legs
It's massive power creep and having to choose between those sets at R30 would be a real pain.
My guess is that we will get V20 and R25 only tho and R30 might happen in a year, after Empy +3 power creep.
A: 13sTP on Feet/Legs/Head, 14 on Hands and 15 on Body. 68 total, so 18 more than Malignance. Also 29%PDL total and 70 acc/racc/macc per piece (Like 50more acc total than Malignance and even more racc), which is huge for all non ilvl offhands.
B: 11%WSD/5DA% on Feet/Hands/Head, 12%WSD/6%DA on Legs and 13%WSD/7%DA on Body.
It shits on every WSD pieces in game. DA% goes up from 12% to 28% making it a great TP set too and VERY good WS set for multihits too. Many people think WSD is useless for multihit, but its not useless, its just way less effective. 58%WSD (its 15%WSD more from R20 to R30) on 5hit WS will still boost damage by almost 12% tho. Which is the same as having +30%DA on that 5hit WS (assuming ftp replication).
Im getting 16% increase on NIN hybrid WSs too.
C: From base Nyame to R30 path C hands/body/legs it's 69% increase on NIN :Ni bursts and 66% increase on :San bursts
D: Even this start to be interesting with 80 acc and macc for pets on each piece and 11% pet damage on body and 10% on legs
It's massive power creep and having to choose between those sets at R30 would be a real pain.
My guess is that we will get V20 and R25 only tho and R30 might happen in a year, after Empy +3 power creep.
[+]
SimonSes said: »
R30 Nyame stats are ridiculous.
The rest of the Odyssey gear on the other hand...
R25 and R30 stats, if anything, make me even more emo that Nyame has the "Rare" tag.
Q_Q
Quote:
My guess is that we will get V20 and R25 only tho and R30 might happen in a year, after Empy +3 power creep.
I heard they are adding R30 to Hagun, totally swear my brother's best friend cousins boyfriend told us.
[+]
Asura.Saevel said: »
How many folks have the GEO just standing around the whole time?
Our geo does 8% of the parse usually. When we have to pick up a person every once in a while and they have no idea that geo actually can do damage it disheartens me.
For curious geos reading this:
[+]
It is. I mention using Idris since you all start with 3k TP anyway (at least we do.) And you might have to recast a bubble and won't lose AM3. It rather quick TP gain too.
edit: Maxiclub might be even better (I've never used in that particular fight) but if Saev has I'd assume it works as well. Either way, the point was "don't have your geo stand around doing nothing."
edit: Maxiclub might be even better (I've never used in that particular fight) but if Saev has I'd assume it works as well. Either way, the point was "don't have your geo stand around doing nothing."
Ehr... Exudation sucks very bad, even with R15 Idris. Not saying it's the WORST club WS ever but it's bad. It's basically a tool to activate AM3 and that's it.
If you want more proof you can use my WHM/GEO DD calculator and see the numbers for yourself.
If you want more proof you can use my WHM/GEO DD calculator and see the numbers for yourself.
If you wanna use idris then use exu to activate am3 then spam judgment.
But this is not a generic geo dd discussion. I assume we were talking about bumba, then you don't have the luxury to pick your best ws. You have to pick the one that won't generate SCs.
But this is not a generic geo dd discussion. I assume we were talking about bumba, then you don't have the luxury to pick your best ws. You have to pick the one that won't generate SCs.
lolz...
First up, we’re increasing the Vengenace cap for Odyssey’s Sheol: Gaol to +20. This naturally means that eligible equipment can be augmented to even greater heights, so you’ll be able to boost up your gear to higher attributes than before. It goes without saying that the foes within will also grow more powerful, but...well, I’ve decided to say it anyway. Tackle the trials within and claim your powerful equipment!
I'll re-dump the night of the update for any changes.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/59046
First up, we’re increasing the Vengenace cap for Odyssey’s Sheol: Gaol to +20. This naturally means that eligible equipment can be augmented to even greater heights, so you’ll be able to boost up your gear to higher attributes than before. It goes without saying that the foes within will also grow more powerful, but...well, I’ve decided to say it anyway. Tackle the trials within and claim your powerful equipment!
I'll re-dump the night of the update for any changes.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/59046
Well that sucks, going to have to clear them all over again now on veng 20 and then farm everything again (I swore I would never fight that damn tree again) and with higher possible augments more of the gear will need to be augmented.
Going back to daily segment farming is going to be awful.
Going back to daily segment farming is going to be awful.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Jakey said: »
Well that sucks, going to have to clear them all over again now on veng 20 and then farm everything again (I swore I would never fight that damn tree again) and with higher possible augments more of the gear will need to be augmented.
Going back to daily segment farming is going to be awful.
Going back to daily segment farming is going to be awful.
Its mostly clears really. Amount of RP from boosted amplifier V20 fight will be huge. Somewhere around 5667 if you only do 5% HP (7779 if 3x V20 give higher boost on amplifier) to 6336 for win (8448 if 3x V20 give higher boost on amplifier).
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Jakey said: »
Going back to daily segment farming is going to be awful.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Jakey said: »
Going back to daily segment farming is going to be awful.
That is disappointing. My feeling is they expect that reducing the penalty for missing a day across the player base would introduce too much gil. That or they want the RPed pieces to be more exclusive still and keep it as a drawn out grind. They made earning RP too accessible, so gating access is how they throttle people from ranking it too quickly.
That's a valid concern but I don't think it's the reason behind their choice.
I think it's more of a matter of: "We want to offer motivation for players to login every single day at least once a day".
As for the money thing, it makes no sense to begin with. After so many years where we struggled with too much gil inflation they finally acknowledge the issue and add gil-sinks (AF reforge, then Relic, then the Ambuscade weekly cap then Odyssey gear price) and then what? Then they add GIL as a reward for Sheol A/B/C?!
Srsly?!
Bah...
I think it's more of a matter of: "We want to offer motivation for players to login every single day at least once a day".
As for the money thing, it makes no sense to begin with. After so many years where we struggled with too much gil inflation they finally acknowledge the issue and add gil-sinks (AF reforge, then Relic, then the Ambuscade weekly cap then Odyssey gear price) and then what? Then they add GIL as a reward for Sheol A/B/C?!
Srsly?!
Bah...
[+]
Oh yay, I can’t wait to get Tiiiiiiiimbereeed by the tree, all over again.
[+]
The amount of RP you'll need to rank the gear from 15 to 20 will probably be 10-15K, which is about the same as ranks 1-15 combined, but killing a NM on veng 20 will probably also yield around 2500 RP per kill to counterbalance. As vengs go higher the amount of RP to get the last levels increases significantly, but so does the payout for a kill.
I'm calling it now... the atonement 3's on Veng 20 are going to have roughly 4 million HP. Killing them is going to be interesting. Ongo and Mboze are gonna be murderous.
I'm calling it now... the atonement 3's on Veng 20 are going to have roughly 4 million HP. Killing them is going to be interesting. Ongo and Mboze are gonna be murderous.
[+]
Oh god this is gonna suck lol, having to clear every NM again on V20...
Remember that the cost:effort ratio goes down the higher the rank.
Instead of bitching about how much more you have to do, remember, you can simply not do it. It's SELF inflicted torture.
Instead of bitching about how much more you have to do, remember, you can simply not do it. It's SELF inflicted torture.
Quote:
Oh god this is gonna suck lol, having to clear every NM again on V20...
Oh lets be honest, clearing the first two tiers is a cakewalk. Seg farms have become vastly more efficient and we'll be starting straight at V 20 this time, so it's not like the resource grind to get to bumba Veng 20 is gonna be that intense. The only major roadblocks are gonna be the atonement 3's. Killing bumba should be pretty doable in comparison, but I've already mentioned it in this thread and I'll reiterate it because this is relevant.
Veng 5 NM's --- around 600k HP
Veng 10 NM's -- around 1.1 mil HP
Veng 15 NM's -- around 2.3 million HP
That scaling means the veng 20's are gonna have around 4 million HP. Most of them should still be pretty doable, but that really puts the time crunch on you. I don't look forward to killing Ongo OR Mboze with nearly DOUBLE their current HP... at all. Those two NM's in particular are the roadblocks. Compared to them everything else is practically a free ride.
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Quote:
Oh god this is gonna suck lol, having to clear every NM again on V20...
Oh lets be honest, clearing the first two tiers is a cakewalk. Seg farms have become vastly more efficient and we'll be starting straight at V 20 this time, so it's not like the resource grind to get to bumba Veng 20 is gonna be that intense. The only major roadblocks are gonna be the atonement 3's. Killing bumba should be pretty doable in comparison, but I've already mentioned it in this thread and I'll reiterate it because this is relevant.
Veng 5 NM's --- around 600k HP
Veng 10 NM's -- around 1.1 mil HP
Veng 15 NM's -- around 2.3 million HP
That scaling means the veng 20's are gonna have around 4 million HP. Most of them should still be pretty doable, but that really puts the time crunch on you. I don't look forward to killing Ongo OR Mboze with nearly DOUBLE their current HP... at all. Those two NM's in particular are the roadblocks. Compared to them everything else is practically a free ride.
[+]
Quote:
Ongo should be be easy tbh the straight won't change people were already clearing it with 8-10 mins left on the clock. Mboze will be a bad grind for sure. I personally can't see myself doing this content still for just 3 or 4 more attack or wsd.
You can't? Really? because I sure as hell can. The nyame paths are already very strong at Rank 20, but when you bump it up to Rank 25 they become ridiculous, and at rank 30 the augs are absurd. At rank 25 nyame head, hands, and feet all get weaponskill damage 10, legs gets 12, and body gets a whopping 13. Right now there are a lot of cases where nyame falls just short of being BiS for pure damage compared to many existing pieces, so I've kept several dozen things in my wardrobe as situational swaps. But with the extra stats Nyame is just flat out better; period. Storing all that JSE equipment will save tons of inventory.
Path A nyame similarly is on the same level as malignance at rank 20, but at R 25 it surpasses malignance. If you go the path A build you'd have the BiS Tp set for every job and can pretty much never worry about using any other TP set again. The stats are just that good. It's a massive inventory save and a significant bump in overall performance at the same time.
[+]
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Quote:
Oh god this is gonna suck lol, having to clear every NM again on V20...
Oh lets be honest, clearing the first two tiers is a cakewalk. Seg farms have become vastly more efficient and we'll be starting straight at V 20 this time, so it's not like the resource grind to get to bumba Veng 20 is gonna be that intense. The only major roadblocks are gonna be the atonement 3's. Killing bumba should be pretty doable in comparison, but I've already mentioned it in this thread and I'll reiterate it because this is relevant.
Veng 5 NM's --- around 600k HP
Veng 10 NM's -- around 1.1 mil HP
Veng 15 NM's -- around 2.3 million HP
That scaling means the veng 20's are gonna have around 4 million HP. Most of them should still be pretty doable, but that really puts the time crunch on you. I don't look forward to killing Ongo OR Mboze with nearly DOUBLE their current HP... at all. Those two NM's in particular are the roadblocks. Compared to them everything else is practically a free ride.
This is a little of a misunderstanding, people are killing it with 0~2 minutes left on the clock. If you get super lucky and everything lines up, then you can kill it in 5~8 minutes. Subtle Sorcery is 60s, Rayke is 47s, that is no where near long enough so you need to rely on resets. RD isn't guaranteed to give you another Rayke, Wild Card is but isn't guaranteed to get you another subtle sorcery.
Those super fast kills are based on getting lucky on RD / WC resets.
Hopefully they tune the HP scaling a bit, or tweak Mboze / Ongo to make them more doable.
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
The amount of RP you'll need to rank the gear from 15 to 20 will probably be 10-15K, which is about the same as ranks 1-15 combined, but killing a NM on veng 20 will probably also yield around 2500 RP per kill to counterbalance. As vengs go higher the amount of RP to get the last levels increases significantly, but so does the payout for a kill.
No idea why you are guessing it, when this is known for months now :)
V20 will give 704RP Base (40% of 1760)
R25 requires 25150RP Total (it's exactly the same system as SU5/necks+2)
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Oh lets be honest, clearing the first two tiers is a cakewalk. Seg farms have become vastly more efficient and we'll be starting straight at V 20 this time, so it's not like the resource grind to get to bumba Veng 20 is gonna be that intense. The only major roadblocks are gonna be the atonement 3's. (...)
Veng 5 NM's --- around 600k HP
Veng 10 NM's -- around 1.1 mil HP
Veng 15 NM's -- around 2.3 million HP
That scaling means the veng 20's are gonna have around 4 million HP. Most of them should still be pretty doable, but that really puts the time crunch on you. I don't look forward to killing Ongo OR Mboze with nearly DOUBLE their current HP... at all. Those two NM's in particular are the roadblocks. Compared to them everything else is practically a free ride.
Veng 5 NM's --- around 600k HP
Veng 10 NM's -- around 1.1 mil HP
Veng 15 NM's -- around 2.3 million HP
That scaling means the veng 20's are gonna have around 4 million HP. Most of them should still be pretty doable, but that really puts the time crunch on you. I don't look forward to killing Ongo OR Mboze with nearly DOUBLE their current HP... at all. Those two NM's in particular are the roadblocks. Compared to them everything else is practically a free ride.
I dont think that's accurate. If you look at Bumba's HP, you will notice it pretty much matches A3 NMs, but 5 Vengeance level higher. So Bumba at V5 has as much HP as A3 at V10 and Bumba at V10 has as much HP as A3 at V15. Bumba at V15 has ~3M HP and I would speculate that's the HP value for A3 V20. What's a mystery is Bumba's V20 HP.
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Killing bumba should be pretty doable in comparison
I agree, assuming it will have like 4-4.5M HP, but.. and this is a VERY BIG but, only assuming they wont change timer of Fetters mechanic. If they push it to start at 1min after engage, it's gonna be WHOLE other fight.
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
At rank 25 nyame head, hands, and feet all get weaponskill damage 10, legs gets 1211, and body gets a whopping 1312
Asura.Saevel said: »
This is a little of a misunderstanding, people are killing it with 0~2 minutes left on the clock.
Nah people are killing it in few minutes with full luck. Indeed with like 8min remaining, so with such luck, doing as I predict ~36% more damage is for sure doable. It's maybe even possible without lucky WC if you are really good at timing and squeezing every bit of damage. magic accuracy down and magic attack down auras will be the run killers tho imo, at least most of the time.
[+]
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Quote:
Ongo should be be easy tbh the straight won't change people were already clearing it with 8-10 mins left on the clock. Mboze will be a bad grind for sure. I personally can't see myself doing this content still for just 3 or 4 more attack or wsd.
You can't? Really? because I sure as hell can. The nyame paths are already very strong at Rank 20, but when you bump it up to Rank 25 they become ridiculous, and at rank 30 the augs are absurd. At rank 25 nyame head, hands, and feet all get weaponskill damage 10, legs gets 12, and body gets a whopping 13. Right now there are a lot of cases where nyame falls just short of being BiS for pure damage compared to many existing pieces, so I've kept several dozen things in my wardrobe as situational swaps. But with the extra stats Nyame is just flat out better; period. Storing all that JSE equipment will save tons of inventory.
Path A nyame similarly is on the same level as malignance at rank 20, but at R 25 it surpasses malignance. If you go the path A build you'd have the BiS Tp set for every job and can pretty much never worry about using any other TP set again. The stats are just that good. It's a massive inventory save and a significant bump in overall performance at the same time.
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.