Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...

13 is pretty close to 12 so kinda hard to say that's 100% accurate. Must be something else going on like only counting VE maybe to tell who is 2nd, WHM sure seems to pull hate easy if taking a lot of DMG if DD's have Dirge.
Edit: How close did you get to killing Ongo with PLD Tank?
Assuming had a RUN too?

Have had very consistent behavior across all NMs with the following assumption.

At spawn, adds go after whomever is 2nd on the bosses hate list. This list stays cumulative across the fight with the following exceptions.

Whenever you gain hate on the boss, your cumulative enmity on the add is set to 0. This is why a tank can spike hate, but the add turns around immediately.

If your 2nd on hate list (usually a DD) pulls hate off the tank, the add will just go after your 3rd place cumulative add enmity holder.

When people die, everything becomes chaos because the add goes after the last 3-4 main boss hate slots which is almost always a ranged player, and almost always WHM is at the top of that because of cure enmity.

Keep in mind that if you progress from Rank 3 on the bosses enmity list to Rank 2, you can and will turn the add on you. This was tested by spamming high jump through Fly High.

This behavior is painfully evident on enmity reset fights because eventually the add makes its way to the back line because your tank and primary DD keep getting your hate reset as they flop the boss back and forth.

If you take a fight like Procne for example, that add will never leave your Dragoon (assuming you take a dragoon) because your dragoon will never pull due to jumps (unless you are intentionally trying to drop to 3rd on the hate list via High Jump spam).

Dirge and Sirvente are excellent tools to combat adds if you cannot specifically allocate a CC slot like RDM for the add.

Now that you speak of ongo, we planned on having blm manawall tank the add while we kept dmging ongo. The *** decided to go after the corsair when on previous blm burn fights add always went after blm. Also gonna need a real person on sch and brd now. It aint easy tanking and handling sch and brd duties >_>

Couple things come to mind talking about this strategy:

If your COR/RUN are multi-stepping, your COR will likely be #2 on hate because MBs generate less enmity than multi-stepping.

BLM has a suite of crowd control to help deal with the add. COR would just take a couple steps out of its range. Bind, Break, Stun, Sleep. Only problem with doing the CC role, your BLM has to be on the ball so they don't drop any damage while executing the role.

Haven't done progression on this fight yet, but these are considerations I'm taking into account in my approach.

We had RUN & PLD.

First run we did, there was no erratic behavior. But around 50% ish, the BLM d/c. Then the PLD died to fetters, so tulfaire went to the SCH, as expected. When the BLM came back, things returned to normal but we had already lost time with the d/c and running around with an add.

Second run was the bad one. Ongo was on the RUN. Ongo popped Sforzo, so SCH immediately sat down to interrupt his nuke. Tulfaire popped and immediately went for SCH (Piko) as he healed. Then it turned and hit the BLM (Misc). Piko hit Libra. What's not in the quote Lex typed is that the RUN was at 100%. BLM ran in to enmity douse Ongo and the Tulfaire still followed him out. It wasn't until the PLD hit Invincible that Ongo then turned to the PLD and the Tulfaire to the RUN. It stayed for a few minutes until it started doing its thing again. From all of Piko's Libras, RUN and PLD were highest, so not sure what happened.

We were aware that could be an issue but every other fight we used this multi-step MB method on. Sgili/ Marmorkrebs and Raskovniche. The BLM always pulled the add on pop. So we just assumed BLM while it has a massive reduction in enmity generation for MB's. It was still more than the COR's enmity generation. since elemental WS's generate very little enmity also and I was using Leaden + wildfire for the multi step.

So the plan was to just manawall tank it and have the blm run in with the COR when going in for Random Deal / Wildcard to get get rayke/Gambit back to get Manawall back also. But then it went for the COR so we just had the RDM do it's thing on the add.

Another weird note to add is that on the Chapuli I was the target of the add when it spawned (I was more than likely 2nd on enmity). we just bound it and ignored it but at 1 point I died. The interesting part was that after I got up which should of wiped all my enmity. The chapuli add was still on me. It would turn on the spot (bounded) to face me. Even though I shouldn't of had any enmity after dying.

Im not 100% sure, but I think bound enemy will turn to whoever is closest. Same as (this Im 100% sure) it will hit whoever is in range, when the target with highest enmity is out of range.

If RUN was at 100% and PLD at 98%, then PLD was trying too hard :)
Maybe they were both at enmity cap with even enmity and then add would run to 3rd person on list treating both PLD and RUN as 1st (with same enmity score). Or maybe it's something connected with what Shozouki wrote
I would just keep PLD around 70% of RUN, so it won't ever pull hate on Ongo. Just keep PLD enmity well above 3rd person, but also well below tank.

did a few atonement 2/1 without RDM and just with BLM using crowd control, break completely resists, bind lands, but it becomes a circus pretty quickly, bind would last 15-45 seconds. When you are trying to hit MBs consistently and bind + move the party around, it becomes a task, We won all our attempts but on A3 Ongo when every MB counts to get it down, its gonna be tough to crowd control the add on BLM, IMO

I'm sure we'll try tho :)

Had to recheck the recording I took. What made me realize this was when he became unbound he started to come after me again. I was just stood behind the whm to the left awaiting to be unweakened yet he ignored the tank/BRD that were closer to it. Also ignored the WHM that was also closer to it. I moved out it's way but this was still weird.

Short video going over the last few pages of what people had discovered as well as what I discovered on my first Solo V20 run. That add bounced all over the place!!! Anyway thought this may be helpful for some who don't want to read the last 6 pages.

I'll also add that as BRD, I was getting hit as well, moreso than the COR. My direct actions on Ongo were maybe two threnody casts. All other actions were party buffs. It was on the tanks at some point, then I used Pianissimo and it came to poke.

Have we tested if the hate works like Dazzling Dolores? Where chance of pulling hate is functional of how far you are, or something like that?

It looks like there is some hate reset going on. Maybe add hits lower enmity toward Ongo or something. I guess we need more data.

Anyone have any experience on Ongo with RDM? Possible to get frazzle on (w/o Stymie)?

No experience here, but if you make Rayke with 3xTenebrae and make darkness skillchain, then you should be fine. Can try to use this Rayke window to spam Leaden too I guess.

This is just a terrible idea.

Edit: The Tenebrae rayke idea not the replacing (probably geo) with rdm idea. Rayke windows are the vast majority of your damage, there's other ways to get the macc you need.

You probably would want one or two MND etudes and a Dark threnody from your Bard, if you're bringing one. Otherwise, I'm not sure you could land it so easily

Honest question here, frazzle is black magic, so is it INT or MND that affects its macc? I know MND affects the potency but I believe INT affects its macc.

Edit: Also burst it on a grav sc to improve your chances of landing it.

I'm not gonna say I'm 100% right, because I don't know that for sure, but afaik darkness SDT on Ongo is so low, that if you won't use Rayke and Darkness/Gravitation SC to reduce it to 60%, you are guaranteed to get at least 50% resist on it. I'm not sure what 50% resist on Frazzle will do tho. Cut duration by 50%? It will be also super hard to land it at all. You will probably just need to spam it with 5% floored chance to land it and it costs 90MP, so not exactly spam friendly spell, but I guess with Refresh III and 2x SV ballads it shouldn't generally be a problem.

With PLD and RUN at 100% and 98%, my assumption is that even if Ongo didn't physically turn, a tick calculation had them swapped at one point and reset the PLD's cumulative add enmity to 0. SE, and computers in general, are bad at rounding, so who knows.

Once those two are zero'd, the add would bounce between the backline because they're all within 1% enmity of each other.

One point I didn't mention, it's possible to generate enmity on the add specifically, but it seemed to decay very quickly. So maybe it snapshots the bosses enmity table every couple seconds and has no true CE table, hard to say.

Edit: Spoke more to our PLD more who hit the adds with Intervene, Invicible, Flash, and Atonement. Atonement hit for 0 dmg which would indicate that even after those VE spikes on the add, the enmity from the main boss was just snapshotted every tick and added cumulatively, setting your enmity to hard 0 if you're Rank 1 on the boss enmity table during the snapshot.

I'll be able to confirm more T3 add shenanigans towards the weekend.

Ongo's darkness rank is unknown, but it's low enough that even triple rayke and SC might not bring it out of automatic 50% range.

You're probably right. I assumed mnd because of the modifier. You'd likely already have sage/logical etude anyways due to the black mage

First T3 down, Kalunga basic *** too unfortunately.

Did SAM, COR, BRD, RDM, WHM, RUN

Songs were - HM, 3x Minuet, Dirge, everything else was standard.

First attempt we did got him to 1% but had some "teething issues" trying out, second attempt was a 5 minute clear remaining wit the RUN dying to a 3k tp move. We ran the Add 40 away from Kalunga so that the RDM can keep an eye on the boss and players and when the add awoke.

We had 3 sets of fetters on the first attempt 2 on the second.

RDM did - Standard Sleep/Bind for first sleep, Chainspell Sleep2 for second sleep, Stymie sleep 2 for third sleep. This seemed to work well, after a point of sleeps resisting we just went with the add asleep near us rather than kiting away.

Know this one has been said but just giving more information to help those about to do Kalunga.

On Tier 2 NM's also today I tested Shadowstitch as a BRD DPS, it landed after the mob had been bound a few times, haven't tried it on a T3 yet since I was the SAM, but will be giving it a go for the "oh ***moments" where I'm brd.

Shozo might be right on this, this totally could explain what was going on. Gonna have to test this again with a 2nd tank to see if this was the case.


I watched this happen in real time, soon as Piko rested I started laughing and first thing i said was "*** these mechanics"

Kalunga V20 Vid. Hopefully this will help some groups out. Idk if we're going to do any T3s today, the plan is to catch up a good portion of the LS through T2. Probably will be Ongo and Lion when we do try though.

Does anybody think that SE made a mistake with the hate mechanics?

Because if there are two adds for V25, it will be brutally hard to control and/or survive.

V25 probably wont happen before ML60 or even 80 and probably whole anniversary event and most likely Empy+3. Beside obvious powercreep, empy can have augments to JA that will turn what we can do upside down etc. I wouldn't be worried about V25 for now.

For the sake of farming, has anyone checked if v19 is no adds?