Mastery Level - Sub Job Traits/Priorities

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Mastery Level - Sub Job Traits/Priorities
 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2022-11-10 16:42:13  
RUN/BLU gets magic fruit, effectively cure4 and light of pnenance tp reduction.

then /RUN gets foil

those seem notable.
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 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2022-11-10 17:47:22  
gotta admit i am curious for the day about 4 years from now when I can try out DRK/RUN Apoc tanking^^
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2022-11-13 00:52:22  
Detailing the range of updates from 50-59 for each subjob. Spoiler contains: WAR MNK THF WHM BLM PLD DRK


Spoiler contains: BST BRD RNG SMN SAM NIN DRG


Spoiler contains: BLU COR PUP DNC SCH GEO RUN


TLDR version:

WAR: Naegling TP Bonus but that's it
MNK: Still sucks
THF: Still TH only
WHM: Curaga III Mega Heal Mode
BLM: Sleepga II!
RDM: More Fast Cast
PLD: More Defense & Cure IV
DRK: Mega 2-hander/H2H Attack+ Mode
BST: Still sucks
BRD: Carnage Elegy Pulling
RNG: RACC+ if desperate
SMN: Still Mewing only
SAM: Even more TP Overflow!
NIN: Still only for Shadows
DRG: Super Jump City!
BLU: Physical Damage King + Magic Fruit
COR: Still only Corsair's Roll
PUP: Still sucks
DNC: Chocobo Jig!
SCH: 3 Strats and quicker recharge!
GEO: Still sucks
RUN: Magic Damage King + Foil hate
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By SimonSes 2022-11-13 09:20:13  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
DRG: Super Jump City!
You forgot about weaponskill damage here.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2022-11-13 12:07:42  
SimonSes said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
DRG: Super Jump City!
You forgot about weaponskill damage here.

Talked about it in the detailed spoilers. The TLDR version is summarizing concisely for those who hate reading.
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 Phoenix.Serveroz
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By Phoenix.Serveroz 2022-11-16 08:31:04  
Is foil conformed as subjob?
 Asura.Zalama
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By Asura.Zalama 2022-11-16 08:50:34  
Phoenix.Serveroz said: »
Is foil conformed as subjob?
The answer to your question is literally 3 post above your question.
 Fenrir.Jinxs
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By Fenrir.Jinxs 2022-11-16 09:36:30  
How does /drk compare to /drg at max master levels?
If you have other sources of +attack
Will last resort
Smite 3
Damage limit 3
Attack bonus 3

Can /drk hold a candle to ws damage bonus 2 from /drg?

More than likely 2handed user, although I would like to know if smite would make a difference for a h2h user.
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By SimonSes 2022-11-16 09:47:44  
Fenrir.Jinxs said: »
How does /drk compare to /drg at max master levels?
If you have other sources of +attack
Will last resort
Smite 3
Damage limit 3
Attack bonus 3

Can /drk hold a candle to ws damage bonus 2 from /drg?

More than likely 2handed user, although I would like to know if smite would make a difference for a h2h user.

For what job?
 Fenrir.Jinxs
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By Fenrir.Jinxs 2022-11-16 09:53:35  
Pure dps stand point, not taking enmity into account.

2h warrior
Samurai
Monk
Rune fencer
 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2022-11-16 10:08:46  
Fenrir.Jinxs said: »
Pure dps stand point, not taking enmity into account.

2h warrior
Samurai
Monk
Rune fencer

If strictly comparing /DRK to /DRG, Last Resort's job ability Haste will help in TP phase.

WAR already has access to the third tier of Attack Bonus & Smite, so those are moot for WAR.

Damage Limit+ III will be helpful for all the above jobs.

Again, this is just comparing /DRK vs. /DRG.
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By SimonSes 2022-11-16 10:15:08  
Fenrir.Jinxs said: »
Pure dps stand point, not taking enmity into account.

2h warrior
Samurai
Monk
Rune fencer

Warrior has Smite 3, Attack Bonus 3 and Damage Limit 2, so it would only get +0.1 PDL from /drk traits. Last Resort on top of Berserk is probably a bad idea for your defence and you need LR to cap haste. I think nothing can really compete with /sam for 2h WAR.

Monk would get 25 attack and +5% attack from /drk traits over /drg. Last Resort is nice, but only has 60% uptime. /drk could probably win for uncapped attack during Last Resort, but then lose without Last Resort.

It's very similar for SAM, except SAM get ~10% attack from traits instead of 5%.

Lastly for RUN it's for sure interesting choice, but it's the same problem as with WAR, LR only let you cap your haste with 60% uptime, while /sam Hasso is up entire time.

TL;DR Could be good for 3 minutes fights on MNK, SAM and RUN, if you need to boost your attack.
 Phoenix.Serveroz
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By Phoenix.Serveroz 2022-11-16 10:23:59  
BG wiki states foil is main job only. Thats why i'm asking for confirmation.
 Asura.Akkarinn
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By Asura.Akkarinn 2022-11-16 10:47:13  
Can confirm.

https://pasteboard.co/vZpqyz7fp4Su.png
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 Ragnarok.Magicobandito
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By Ragnarok.Magicobandito 2022-11-16 10:54:10  
Updated RUN page on BG to show that foil is accessible as sub job.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2022-11-16 11:32:47  
I should think /drk would be a more viable dd support job for puppetmaster.

Smite I goes to smite III
Damage Limit II goes to Damage Limit III
Attack bonus I from /war goes to Attack bonus III

last resort is the same as berserk in this case

but no Double Attack from /war which is pretty good for h2h


puppet master also has access to some of mage gearsets which potentially could make some of those drk spells useful.

I could also see /pld potentially being useful for Rune Fencer. Having cure4 being the main appeal along w/ defensive bonuses.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2022-11-16 13:05:29  
Edited my above post because for some reason, I thought Last Resort was only for 2-handers. Anyway, this is the definition of Smite: "Improves power of physical attacks when equipped with a hand-to-hand or two-handed weapon."

So, for jobs lacking in general attack (like Puppetmaster), they will be greatly boosted by /drk. I'd imagine it being PUP's best damage potential unless they are seriously buffed to the point of being attack capped by Bard/Corsair/Geomancer, etc, which is highly unlikely. Even then, you've got to consider Warrior's extra double attack over the job ability haste of Last Resort, which is a close call.

I'd say /war is better if you are not trying to skillchain and nobody in your party is providing Warcry. /drk with Last Resort would excel if you want to regularly skillchain with yourself (or a partner) and nobody aside from automaton is interrupting. Dark Magic spells could be useful, especially Absorb-VIT, Stun, and situationally TP. They are the only three I'd seriously consider, although you'll need a ton of magic accuracy.

As for /drk vs. /drg, there are a few scenarios to consider.

1) Is hate an issue? Will you fight a target long enough that you hit the hate ceiling? At that point, /drg is a no-brainer because Super Jump will keep you safe and DDing for longer without that danger.

2) If hate is not an issue, you have to consider your buffs. Will you be attack capped? How much damage are you likely to dish out? If you're only doing, for example, 10k weaponskills, you may want /drk to ensure your attack is capped and have higher WS frequency. If you're doing 20-50k weaponskills and attack is capped, the WS Dmg bonus from /drg is better. Hitting extremely high numbers (90-99k) would work against /drg, because that WS Dmg bonus is negligible.

The annoying subjob here is /sam. When would its obviously high WS frequency beat the added attack of /drk, or the WSdmg of /drg? That's tough to answer. /sam plays more of a part if you are having to run between camps and/or focus highly on skillchains. It bestows more "idle" TP than anything else. If you're not running between camps, /drk and /drg offer more consistency, aside from Last Resort, which you have to account for when it's down.

Also, specifically for main Dark Knights, you can get away with Third Eye+Seigan when Last Resort is up, which is a slightly better defensive option. Even more so if you may have to jump in as an Apocalypse wielding support tank. /sam vs. /drk is tricky on other damage dealers, though. It's the classic Last Resort vs. Hasso argument.

Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
I should think /drk would be a more viable dd support job for puppetmaster.

Smite I goes to smite III
Damage Limit II goes to Damage Limit III
Attack bonus I from /war goes to Attack bonus III

last resort is the same as berserk in this case

but no Double Attack from /war which is pretty good for h2h


puppet master also has access to some of mage gearsets which potentially could make some of those drk spells useful.

I could also see /pld potentially being useful for Rune Fencer. Having cure4 being the main appeal along w/ defensive bonuses.

Magic Fruit would destroy Cure IV on Rune Fencer. Speaking from experience, you'd lose Cocoon, AoE hate tools, and the ability to heal easily if you go /pld over /blu. Since we got Magic Fruit I'd imagine every high end Rune Fencer defaulting to /blu for tanking. It is truly exceptional. The only thing I'd say /pld has over it is Sentinel, but it doesn't last throughout the fight like Cocoon. It's a possibility if the fight is short and dangerous.

As it was mentioned above, let's talk about Samurai, Monk, and Rune Fencer main.

Samurai's main support for a long time has been Warrior, but that's not so easy to decide now. With /drk you get two more traits of Smite (10% more attack) over war and LR, while /drg grants you the WSdmg bonus. Both look superior, while /war only really has Warcry to fall back on. I don't play this job, so it would be beneficial to get feedback from someone who does.

Monk is in a similar boat. For years, many fell back on /war, but I can imagine /drk being more appealing. However, Monk has two traits of smite naturally, so you only gain one more (5%) from /drk. Also, /drg is weird because most Monk's don't mind taking the hate, but at least you have the option not to, on top of WSdmg. I'd imagine MNK/DRG being the preferred sub unless you're lacking buffs. I can't imagine Warrior's double attack traits getting anywhere near that WSdmg boost.

As for Rune Fencer, I'd say nothing changed here. Before the update, /drk with Epeolatry is the way to go. If you're not using Epeo, then you may consider /war or /sam with Lionheart, but neither will beat Epeo /drk, and even more so now.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2022-11-16 21:03:31  
yeah, i wasn't suggesting /pld to be better than /blu for run.. I was just thinking, "hey it might actually work now"
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By Afania 2022-11-17 01:33:40  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Corsair: Resist Amnesia +15%, Random Deal - Puppet, Gallant's & Wizard's Roll

Used by: When Corsair's Roll gives extra points in CP/EP parties without hurting performance

Pros: Sometimes a mage or Bard doesn't require an optimal support job, so they may bring a Corsair's roll for more points. Having Random Deal is a bonus because it randomly resets some abilities for the party.

Gallant's roll is pretty good from sub, tbh. I'd say it's more useful than cor roll as subjob roll because I almost always want cor main to do cor roll in EP pt for maximum points. But defense bonus is more of a bonus. So I'd take whatever we get.
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