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International Politics, it's not all about the USA
 Phoenix.Thorbean
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Phoenix.Thorbean 2020-07-22 04:13:10
Brexit was stupid.
The foot dragging over actually brexiting is even more stupid.
"Oh look! Brexit is going to cause economic disruption and chaos! Lets spread the pain over as many years as possible!"
What was stupid about it? I see this argument a lot, but nobody ever goes into detail. Federalism works in the US because your states all share a common language, economy, history, societal structure and it was built that way.
Europe is a mass of countries with different languages, economic needs, history, ties to other nations. You can't just squash all that together and expect it to work in any meaningful way. That's why Greece is a literal non country now. Crushed under the weight of the North of Europe waltzing their economy and structures into the south of Europe. You can't have Germany and Hungary in a monetary union without causing ordinary people a massive amount of pain.
That's just a small argument about the technical difficulties of Federalising Europe. So what exactly is the EU? It's an un-elected quasi-government that was started as a trading union 50 years ago and now it has it's flag on the passports, cars, and government buildings of 27 nations and are about to dictate tax policy to pay off the BIG debt they just took on. Ever seen star wars?
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11127
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-22 09:45:12
Thorbean, IMHO the EU ****ed over the south with the imposition of the euro.
To put it another way the euro is worse than the EU.
GB did not accept the euro, had it IDK if brexit would even have been possible.
The referendum was a LOT about open borders and cheap imported labor. But the EU itself was all about organizing western and southern europe into an economic force to counterbalance the super powers.
Pulling out of the economic union and reestablishing borders and custom checkpoints is where its going ti hurt for a long time.
And did you ever get rid of that cheap foreign labor?
Phoenix.Thorbean
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Phoenix.Thorbean 2020-07-22 16:04:20
Edit for correct video:
We're happy to continue trading with the EU, we just don't want to be run by them and we don't want our fisheries being stripped by super trawlers from the EU without any control. Our trading standards, work standards, environmental standards etc. are all higher than the EU so I never got that whole "waaa protect our work rights" from the remain side.
Brexit and Russia report information by super English egg man.
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Maybe I jumped the gun on the big debt, they were agreed yesterday. "United EU"
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Cheap labor problem gets worse by the day. David Lammy, a Labour MP who is running for Mayor of London announced today that he wants to grant amnesty to the 300,000 illegal migrants in London. "There won't be a housing crisis because they are already living here, and there won't be a labor crisis because they already have jobs" - David Lammy 2020.
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 Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2020-07-23 08:57:31
But the EU itself was all about organizing western and southern europe into an economic force to counterbalance the super powers.
The EU hasn't been about that since the 90's, now it's about consolidating power in a centralized government and standardizing all of Europe as a socialist state.
The EU was fashioned after the USA, only without that pesky Constitution, Democracy and natural rights. To become an EU member state you must agree to the Supremacy of EU law. That was a huge issue with the Brits as the EU was getting more aggressive with over riding UK sovereignty with it's own edicts.
The EU might of worked if it hadn't tried to covert a trade association into a world government, but then nobody would of joined them anyway.
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11127
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-23 11:58:34
...
But the EU itself was all about organizing western and southern europe into an economic force to counterbalance the super powers.... TLDR: Was....
By volkom 2020-07-23 14:31:19
https://www.yahoo.com/news/guarded-nazi-gas-chambers-17-091542442.html
Quote: HAMBURG, Germany — A German court on Thursday found a former Nazi SS camp guard guilty of 5,232 counts of accessory to murder and one case of accessory to attempted murder — equal to the number of people believed to have been killed at Stutthof concentration camp during his service there.
A statement from the court said it had given Bruno Dey, 93, a two-year juvenile sentence, which has been suspended.
“How could you get used to the horror?” presiding judge Anne Meier-Goering asked as she announced the verdict.
Dey was 17, and later 18, at the time of his alleged crimes which were consequently heard in juvenile court in Hamburg. The German nonagenarian, who is in a wheelchair, faced a possible sentence of six months to 10 years in prison.
Interesting how people are willing to persecute everyone involved with the death camps. Should use that same motivation to go after China for what they're doing over there
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11127
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-23 14:33:32
https://www.yahoo.com/news/guarded-nazi-gas-chambers-17-091542442.html
Quote: HAMBURG, Germany — A German court on Thursday found a former Nazi SS camp guard guilty of 5,232 counts of accessory to murder and one case of accessory to attempted murder — equal to the number of people believed to have been killed at Stutthof concentration camp during his service there.
A statement from the court said it had given Bruno Dey, 93, a two-year juvenile sentence, which has been suspended.
“How could you get used to the horror?” presiding judge Anne Meier-Goering asked as she announced the verdict.
Dey was 17, and later 18, at the time of his alleged crimes which were consequently heard in juvenile court in Hamburg. The German nonagenarian, who is in a wheelchair, faced a possible sentence of six months to 10 years in prison. Interesting how people are willing to persecute everyone involved with the death camps. Should use that same motivation to go after China for what they're doing over there You might note that we won a war with Germany. Who is at war with China?
By Viciouss 2020-07-23 14:33:56
https://www.yahoo.com/news/guarded-nazi-gas-chambers-17-091542442.html
Quote: HAMBURG, Germany — A German court on Thursday found a former Nazi SS camp guard guilty of 5,232 counts of accessory to murder and one case of accessory to attempted murder — equal to the number of people believed to have been killed at Stutthof concentration camp during his service there.
A statement from the court said it had given Bruno Dey, 93, a two-year juvenile sentence, which has been suspended.
“How could you get used to the horror?” presiding judge Anne Meier-Goering asked as she announced the verdict.
Dey was 17, and later 18, at the time of his alleged crimes which were consequently heard in juvenile court in Hamburg. The German nonagenarian, who is in a wheelchair, faced a possible sentence of six months to 10 years in prison.
Interesting how people are willing to persecute everyone involved with the death camps. Should use that same motivation to go after China for what they're doing over there
How?
By volkom 2020-07-23 14:41:27
https://www.yahoo.com/news/guarded-nazi-gas-chambers-17-091542442.html
Quote: HAMBURG, Germany — A German court on Thursday found a former Nazi SS camp guard guilty of 5,232 counts of accessory to murder and one case of accessory to attempted murder — equal to the number of people believed to have been killed at Stutthof concentration camp during his service there.
A statement from the court said it had given Bruno Dey, 93, a two-year juvenile sentence, which has been suspended.
“How could you get used to the horror?” presiding judge Anne Meier-Goering asked as she announced the verdict.
Dey was 17, and later 18, at the time of his alleged crimes which were consequently heard in juvenile court in Hamburg. The German nonagenarian, who is in a wheelchair, faced a possible sentence of six months to 10 years in prison. Interesting how people are willing to persecute everyone involved with the death camps. Should use that same motivation to go after China for what they're doing over there You might note that we won a war with Germany. Who is at war with China?
international intervention of some sort ~ how can people be okay with condemning and jailing former german soldiers/nazi's for war crimes and crimes against humanity when China is doing similar things today
By Viciouss 2020-07-23 14:45:56
Everyone knows how bad China is, they are a Communist country with a death grip on their people, all 2 billion of them. Everyone also knows there isn't much, if anything, that can be done about it.
By volkom 2020-07-23 14:49:54
isn't much that can be done? or countries are afraid of doing something? I'm leaning towards the latter
By Viciouss 2020-07-23 15:16:39
international intervention of some sort ~
Too many movies/videogames. A military intervention against China is not the kind of world we live in. Our dearly departed conspiracy theorist Hideka said the other day that we were one action away from a "full scale ground war" with China. 100% ***.
What does that even look like? Do we invade them? From where? They aren't Iraq. China has a modern military that can match every tool in the US arsenal. Tanks? Check. Planes? Check. Larger fighting force? Population: 2 Billion.
No one is going to physically intervene in China's affairs. We condemn them, we shun them, we even sanction them, and it stops there. If the Chinese populace wants liberation, they have to do it on their own.
By volkom 2020-07-23 16:22:49
intervention could just have more economic sanctions on china, not from just the US but from all countries around the world. I'm surprised Germany hasn't put any sort of sanction or pressure on China about this considering their own history.
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-reluctance-to-speak-out-against-china/a-54079606
wait nvm they don't want to because they benefit too much economically and the above article is only about the issues with Hong Kong and not the various camps China has where they are trying to sterilize an entire group of people as well as harvest their organs.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-23 16:32:23
Everyone benefits too much from chinas child slavery. Lots of blustering and no action. They've got the whole planet by the balls.
By volkom 2020-07-23 16:44:37
Everyone benefits too much from chinas child slavery. Lots of blustering and no action. They've got the whole planet by the balls.
So why is it a problem if Trump wants to move the manufacturing jobs back to the US?
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Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-23 16:46:38
Capitalism.
Can't make a billion dollars paying americans $20 an hour when chinese do it for 5c an hour.
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Administrator
サーバ: Hyperion
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 701
By Drama Torama 2020-07-23 16:53:54
Everyone benefits too much from chinas child slavery. Lots of blustering and no action. They've got the whole planet by the balls.
So why is it a problem if Trump wants to move the manufacturing jobs back to the US?
I wish he would, but:
Capitalism.
Can't make a billion dollars paying americans $20 an hour when chinese do it for 5c an hour.
This. More directly, American consumers aren't going to pay what it costs to manufacture things here. Prices on practically every consumer good would go up by orders of magnitude.
The real answer to breaking free of dependence on Chinese slave labor is automation. Thing is, that solves the "Made in the USA" problem but doesn't actually do anything about jobs, other than a handful of robot mechanics and programmers.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-23 17:07:30
It's not even necessarily that they wouldn't it's that they can't. $1000 iPhone would cost double built here to maintain the same profit.
https://fee.org/articles/a-made-in-america-iphone-would-cost-2-000-studies-show/
yeah, more jobs here is great. Bring em all back home, employ everyone with 'goodish' jobs.
The other problem is regulations, you can't work americans to death 16 hours a day with no breaks, and pollution has cost.
And then the obvious ripple (that doesn't have to happen but will, because, greed) "everything" will inflate. more jobs, more money, less value.
It's way deeper of a problem than simply changing a location, it throws the entire system into chaos.
It would force other existing businesses to raise wages to compete with the jobs brought home. Small businesses would collapse. etc etc etc. (this is basically what amazon is doing already)
Another impossible task.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-23 17:15:12
China doing us the favor of letting us exploit them to maintain our social/economic system the way it is.
They're preventing the systematic collapse of our entire society!
(this is only slightly hyperbolic)
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11127
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-23 20:21:00
China holds immense amounts of US debt.
They could totally crash our economy any time they like.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2020-07-23 20:21:54
China holds immense amounts of US debt.
They could totally crash our economy any time they like.
No they don't, was a story spread by people who are bad at math.
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Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2020-07-23 20:29:22
Total foreign owned debt is 6.2 trillion
China: $1.13 trillion
Japan: $1.02 trillion
Brazil: $313 billion
Ireland: $287 billion
Total US Debt is $21.8 trillion
Total US Public Debt is $16.1 trillion
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-23 20:54:06
This. More directly, American consumers aren't going to pay what it costs to manufacture things here. Prices on practically every consumer good would go up by orders of magnitude. Incorrect.
If this was true, then MyPillow would never be as successful as it is today.
Nor would any of the millions of small businesses and manufacturers in this nation be successful.
Please don't equate Walmart to US Consumer Demand.
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Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11127
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-23 20:54:16
Quote: How Much U.S. Debt Does China Own?
By Investopedia
Updated Jan 15, 2020
It seems as if every American politician and talking head is expressing concern about the huge amount of debt that the U.S. government owes Chinese lenders. The Chinese do own a lot of U.S. debt—about $1.1 trillion as of early 2020.1 That's a bit over 5% of our GNP.
If they do a dump, not that are going to, it would nosedive the price of our securities leading to a sharp increase in the YtV ratio. This would suck money out of stocks like the first Mexico free trade agreement sucked jobs out of the industrial heartland.
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11127
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-23 20:55:50
This. More directly, American consumers aren't going to pay what it costs to manufacture things here. Prices on practically every consumer good would go up by orders of magnitude. Incorrect.
If this was true, then MyPillow would never be as successful as it is today.... Aren't all true Trumpetts required to own at least two mypillows?
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-23 21:00:57
Quote: How Much U.S. Debt Does China Own?
By Investopedia
Updated Jan 15, 2020
It seems as if every American politician and talking head is expressing concern about the huge amount of debt that the U.S. government owes Chinese lenders. The Chinese do own a lot of U.S. debt—about $1.1 trillion as of early 2020.1 That's a bit over 5% of our GNP.
If they do a dump, not that are going to, it would nosedive the price of our securities leading to a sharp increase in the YtV ratio. This would suck money out of stocks like the first Mexico free trade agreement sucked jobs out of the industrial heartland. Except one thing: Who's going to buy the debt?
If anything, if they dumped the debt we owe them, they would be the ones who would hurt, not us. It's not like they can call the debt.
They are not in that position to do so.
This. More directly, American consumers aren't going to pay what it costs to manufacture things here. Prices on practically every consumer good would go up by orders of magnitude. Incorrect.
If this was true, then MyPillow would never be as successful as it is today.... Aren't all true Trumpetts required to own at least two mypillows? Now you are being factitious. If we are going to go down this road, isn't every true Obamaite required to own at least 2 Solyndra solar panels?
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Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11127
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-23 21:34:51
I said, "not that they were going to."
Of course I was being factitious. Factitious deserves a snarky reply and I know you can do it. You didn't though.
Phoenix.Thorbean
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Phoenix.Thorbean 2020-07-23 21:37:15
Getting tired of hearing how powerful China is when they are still part of the UK and US foreign aid budget. Other countries like India are telling the world they can do what China does and they have much better QOL over there.
It's best all round if you're sourcing from multiple suppliers anyway.
https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/industry/india-replace-china-global-manufacturing-hub-post-covid-auto-sector-coronavirus-crisis/1951173/
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By Prong 2020-07-23 22:17:40
How about we stop using conjured social media buzz words so I can at least act like I'm speaking to mature adults.
Here's your international politics thread, although this topic hasn't really breached other threads yet, might as well have one for this:
To start off:
Turkey’s decision to convert Hagia Sophia into mosque strikes fears for other holy sites
Caleb Parke said: Religious and political leaders are decrying Turkey's decision to make Istanbul's Hagia Sophia, known for its Christian origin and as the secular Muslim nation's most popular tourist site, into a mosque.
Built as a Greek Orthodox Church nearly 1,500 years ago and converted into a mosque after the Ottoman conquest of 1453, the Unesco World Heritage Site became a museum in 1934 under Turkish Republic founding father Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Today, it attracts more than 3.7 million visitors a year.
Last week, however, a Turkish court ruled the Hagia Sophia's conversion to a museum was unlawful and Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared the building a mosque once again, the BBC reports.
"Like all our mosques, the doors of Hagia Sophia will be wide open to locals and foreigners, Muslims and non-Muslims," Erdogan said at a press conference noting Muslim prayer will begin on July 24.
On Tuesday, Greece, which is home to a large number of citizens who revere the sixth-century building as a focal point of their Orthodox Christian faith, called it a "petty" move.
“With this backward action, Turkey is opting to sever links with the Western world and its values,” Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said.
The decision also was criticized by the World Council of Churches and the Church in Russia, home to the world's largest Orthodox Christian community, and the leader of the Catholic Church.
"My thoughts go to Istanbul. I think of St. Sophia and I am very pained," the pope said during a service at the Vatican.
Unesco said its World Heritage Committee would review the monument's status.
According to an Arabic Facebook post, Erdogan stated that the “revival of the Hagia Sophia is a sign toward the return of freedom to the al-Aqsa mosque” in Jerusalem, CBN News reports.
The move comes as the United States faces protests calling for the tearing down of monuments and symbols. People across the world worry that Islamists will try to reclaim other sites after Turkey's move.
The Genesis 123 Foundation, based in Israel, called it "a direct attack on Christians and Christian heritage in the Middle East" in a petition to "save the Hagia Sophia from Islamic Extremists."
"We call upon the government of Turkey to reverse its decision and maintain the Hagia Sophia as a world heritage site open to all. We call upon world governments to implore Turkey that they must reverse this action," Jonathan Feldstein, the president of the Genesis 123 Foundation, wrote.
Aykan Erdemir of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies said Erdogan is "once again asserting Islamic supremacism and domination on Turkey's ethnic and religious minorities."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
I mean, I see why the religious community is pissed off, while at the same time I see one reason why Erdogan did it (to help prevent ISIS and ISIS-lites from destroying it), but really, mobs and radicals are going to radical.
It's more of a powerplay move for the Muslim community than it is to save the monument. But honestly, I have no skin in the game on this (I'm not religious). I do, however, don't want people to destroy anything historic.
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