Let's Start A Riot?!?!

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2010-06-21
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Let's start a riot?!?!
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 Cerberus.Hideka
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By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-06-22 17:58:02  
like for serious, most of the battles he won, or stalemated the union on, he was outnumbered by 20-50%.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-22 17:59:51  
Cruz Missive said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
They’re tearing down statues and monuments to Founding Fathers now. We’re beyond Confederates and traitors.

It wouldn't have gotten to that point if they hadn't started with the Confederate statues, though, so the question is still relevant.

Like, no one was feenin' to give US Grant a toppling until they were already in a frenzy from toppling some traitors. (Grant's record on Native Americans was pretty awful, which seems to be the argument for going after him).

Which kinda proves the whole “slippery slope” argument, right? Trump was laughed at years ago for predicting that people would go after Washington and Jefferson next. But then what after that? Then we rewrite history books to clarify that this country was founded by a bunch of evil men? If you’re so concerned about glorifying traitors, let’s not breed new ones in the process.
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 Cerberus.Hideka
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By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-06-22 18:01:28  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Cruz Missive said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
They’re tearing down statues and monuments to Founding Fathers now. We’re beyond Confederates and traitors.

It wouldn't have gotten to that point if they hadn't started with the Confederate statues, though, so the question is still relevant.

Like, no one was feenin' to give US Grant a toppling until they were already in a frenzy from toppling some traitors. (Grant's record on Native Americans was pretty awful, which seems to be the argument for going after him).

Which kinda proves the whole “slippery slope” argument, right? Trump was laughed at years ago for predicting that people would go after Washington and Jefferson next. But then what after that? Then we rewrite history books to clarify that this country was founded by a bunch of evil men? If you’re so concerned about glorifying traitors, let’s not breed new ones in the process.


i mean most of what trump says, does come to pass. i still remember when the media was touting a report that hydroxychloroquine was killing people, and never even bothered fact checking the report to find it was written by a scifi novelist and a pornstar.
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By Viciouss 2020-06-22 18:04:30  
Lee's accomplishments are severely, and rightfully, overshadowed by the unmitigated disaster at Gettysburg. Full stop. One of the worst decisions on the history of warfare, to go against your entire staff that was telling you how wrong you are. Complete waste of human life.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 18:06:08  
Meh, Cleopatra would like a word with all of you about history being rewritten. *** load of other characters from history have gotten this treatment. Gasp, usually they are people of minority who did powerful things, and changed the course of human behavior for the better.

Funny how willing some people are willing to do what ever they can to erase it. Hrm almost like they have forgotten a past mistake. How in the *** did that happen I wonder?

The statues are a representation of history, that are easily accessible to attacks, if they could they would burn all the books referring to these events, but mobs are incapable of that kind of organization right? Oh wait, shucks, that's another lesson.

Long story short, your version of history has been spoon fed to you. Your biographies of these people are as fallible as the Bible. Selective memory mother ***.
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By volkom 2020-06-22 18:09:33  
should tear down any statue of Truman for his genocide of the japanese people
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-22 18:10:11  
How many war heroes in history did something incredibly stupid but just flat out got lucky in the end? Winners are judged on outcomes.

If a coach calls for a last-minute two point conversion for the win instead of going for the easy tie, he’s an idiot if he fails and a genius if he succeeds. We’re biased like that.
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 Cerberus.Hideka
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By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-06-22 18:12:20  
Viciouss said: »
Lee's accomplishments are severely, and rightfully, overshadowed by the unmitigated disaster at Gettysburg. Full stop. One of the worst decisions on the history of warfare, to go against your entire staff that was telling you how wrong you are. Complete waste of human life.

do you mean one of the ONLY fight where lee had a reasonable chance at destroying the union army? this was their do-or-die battle. you'd be living in the confederate states of america. the union managed to out game them by pretending they were out of cannon fire, because they anticipated a potential infantry charge- they took a gamble and won. had they actually been out of cannon rounds, it would have been their loss. given the information lee had - his choice was correct.
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By Viciouss 2020-06-22 18:20:45  
Cerberus.Hideka said: »
Viciouss said: »
Lee's accomplishments are severely, and rightfully, overshadowed by the unmitigated disaster at Gettysburg. Full stop. One of the worst decisions on the history of warfare, to go against your entire staff that was telling you how wrong you are. Complete waste of human life.

do you mean one of the ONLY fight where lee had a reasonable chance at destroying the union army? this was their do-or-die battle. you'd be living in the confederate states of america. the union managed to out game them by pretending they were out of cannon fire, because they anticipated a potential infantry charge- they took a gamble and won. had they actually been out of cannon rounds, it would have been their loss. given the information lee had - his choice was correct.

Lol, no it wasn't. This was funny tho. Lee never had a chance of defeating the Union Army, his entire staff was advising him that his strategy of charging the reinforced center was literal suicide and he did it anyway. Lee's choice will never be
"correct" by any metric. He marched his Army to slaughter, and he had the option to listen and make a different choice. Your just making things up at this point.
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By Viciouss 2020-06-22 18:22:22  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
How many war heroes in history did something incredibly stupid but just flat out got lucky in the end? Winners are judged on outcomes.

If a coach calls for a last-minute two point conversion for the win instead of going for the easy tie, he’s an idiot if he fails and a genius if he succeeds. We’re biased like that.

Far less than the amount of people that did something incredibly stupid and lost because of it.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 18:32:06  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
We’re biased like that.
Here in lies the rub.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 18:33:13  
Leviathan.Draugo said: »
Biggest *** lesson wiped away from history of all time. We are all human beings, and we are all the same goddamn, pun intended, creatures.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 18:38:41  
But yea, clearly the masses are absorbing all the history books you speak of. How else would we have idiots thinking that genetic cleansing is still acceptable to society.

How else are you going to understand the difference between a fascist and antifa?

I do wonder, how we will be sure to remember that mob justice doesn't do anyone any good?
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 18:47:09  
Statues and monuments force people to recognize that history exists. Stone has a longer shelf life than paper. You think your books written by revisionist are going to keep their fidelity then the Bible would like a word with you.

Again, when things suit you they work, when they don't suit your narrative they don't.

You rely too heavily on what other people have to say about things.

History is written by the people who win.

It's not going to stop with statues, text books will be next, followed by art, and any other media. It's happening right under your nose.

So, if a painter made a portrait of Hitler, surrounded by metaphorical images of his atrocities. Your ilk would demand that it was destroyed. Not because it was accurate, but to protect people from horrific imagery. Because words truly can impact someone the most.

Watch:

Holocaust..... Not very scary is it?

Now, go to a Holocaust museum, then you can get a better understanding of the context of the word and exactly what it represents.

Books aren't enough, you will burn them.
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By Viciouss 2020-06-22 18:51:35  
Like I said, fear mongering.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 18:55:43  
Viciouss said: »
Like I said, fear mongering.
Yea sure, anyone who has a problem with people rendering history, are fear mongers hmmm ok.

Nevermind that it is a tactic of despotism.

We're all afraid.

Seems like ostriches like yourself are the ones afraid to face history and recognize it's failures.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 18:57:43  
Btw, tearing down Hitler's statues seems to have done the trick, no more talking about the final solution everyone, his statue is gone.
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By Viciouss 2020-06-22 19:06:32  
Leviathan.Draugo said: »
Viciouss said: »
Like I said, fear mongering.
Yea sure, anyone who has a problem with people rendering history, are fear mongers hmmm ok.

Nevermind that it is a tactic of despotism.

We're all afraid.

Seems like ostriches like yourself are the ones afraid to face history and recognize it's failures.

Absolutely terrified. Lol
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 19:07:54  
Ok useful idiot. You can't recognize the danger of this, you're just plain ignorant.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-22 19:11:55  
Is it easier or harder to be “on the right side of history” when you want to destroy it?
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By Viciouss 2020-06-22 19:19:20  
Leviathan.Draugo said: »
Ok useful idiot. You can't recognize the danger of this, you're just plain ignorant.

Lol, mad again? There is no danger. We are ripping down some statues, not rewriting or destroying history. These aren't even historical monuments, they were built decades later, in almost all cases a different century, in random places. The historical sites are still there. We didn't burn Gettysburg to the ground.
 Shiva.Zerowone
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By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-06-22 19:20:37  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Is it easier or harder to be “on the right side of history” when you want to destroy it?

Confederacy was a failed Coup and lasted 4years. FFXIAH has had a longer history. Should we being erecting statues for Rooks?
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 19:22:14  
No one exists in this day and age that can tell us exactly how history went down.

Obv a general who fought for the south, was nothing but an ignorant racist.

Also, any general who fought for the north, is a Pius saint.

Hrm ok.

A revisionist is a person who only wants one angle of history to be recognized, the one that allows them to play hero,the rest has to be ignored.

Read: influencer ***

A historian will attempt to put both sides together to allow other people to draw lessons from history.

Read: the mythical creature that is a journalist

But yea, people are content with their selective memory, do not threaten that, ever.

Otherwise you are a fear monger.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-22 19:24:04  
Shiva.Zerowone said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Is it easier or harder to be “on the right side of history” when you want to destroy it?

Confederacy was a failed Coup and lasted 4years. FFXIAH has had a longer history. Should we being erecting statues for Rooks?
So, a general statement about history boils down to wether the Confederacy counts as history?
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 Shiva.Zerowone
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By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-06-22 19:24:24  
You cant have a serious talk about monuments to Confederacy if you’re not talking about the turn of the 20th century southern activists known as the Daughters of the Confederacy. Who did the thing that all the surviving Confederates said not to do.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-22 19:31:49  
Shiva.Zerowone said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Is it easier or harder to be “on the right side of history” when you want to destroy it?

Confederacy was a failed Coup and lasted 4years. FFXIAH has had a longer history. Should we being erecting statues for Rooks?

This is one of the dumbest whataboutisms I’ve heard in a long time.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-06-22 19:32:25  
Quote:
On several occasions before he died, former Confederate General Robert E. Lee expressed opposition to proposals to erect Civil War monuments and memorials, including some devoted specifically to the Confederacy.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-22 19:33:35  
And besides, the statue would be of God-King Scragg.
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By Putin On'the'ritz 2020-06-22 19:35:17  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
And besides, the statue would be of God-King Scragg.

Yeah, I am, at BEST the fourth-most important person in the history of this place

And that's still probably a little high
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 Shiva.Zerowone
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By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-06-22 19:36:33  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Shiva.Zerowone said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Is it easier or harder to be “on the right side of history” when you want to destroy it?

Confederacy was a failed Coup and lasted 4years. FFXIAH has had a longer history. Should we being erecting statues for Rooks?

This is one of the dumbest whataboutisms I’ve heard in a long time.

That was the point.
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