Warrior: DW/Fencer/Polearm/H2H/Ranged.

For the most part, I agree. Just have the cor go sam/mnks. SB set is mostly for solo.

Fights that SB builds are useful for? a decent chunk.
Onychophora, Kin, Lilith, etc.

That's really bad advice. SB builds if done right barely lower DPS but greatly help manage the fights and with certain setups allow your hybrid jobs to focus more on DPS than healing/buffing/debuffing.

Any low-man event benefits from SB builds. Ambu, Omen, Odyssey, HMBCs. Mob TP management goes a long way in those fights, can most be done without sure, but there is huge difference in mob TP rate and a much reduced chance for an FU moment from the mob.

And yet here basically 95% of people are clearing that same stuff no problem low man and without it. That’s why I say it’s overblown. I’m Sorry I just don’t see that reality at all. It’s a way to do things differently if you want to mix things up but it’s just not needed.

You can claim the advice is bad but can’t prove you even need that set can you? Like NEED it? Nope.

i can clear everything with smn and blm, guess we should just remove war since it isn't needed

Like I said it’s another method, not a need. So you agree thanks.

the extra damage isn't needed. why not make the fight safer is my point. or is getting back to standing in town to do nothing 12 seconds faster that important?

i don't understand any point you are trying to make. if you're stunned or paralyzed for 12 seconds, your m.eva sucks and your whm sucks. mobs also don't spam tp moves as much when you give them between 50 and 83.75% less tp per hit

you wouldn't get stunned so much if the mob didn't do so many tp moves. and since you're not getting stunned for 12 seconds, that's more dps you can do. and if your whm can't paralyna, they suck. that isn't a gear issue.

The argument for Subtle Blow isn't for a discussion where you have multiple people meleeing a mob. It's a discussion about when you have 1 person meleeing a mob. As in, the other 5 people in your party are support. SB is very useful in that instance. I've never successfully done Odin HTB for instance melee successfully with multiple people meleeing it, because feeding it TP makes it wipe all your buffs faster. I've seen it done with a MNK or a SAM as the only DD though using a Subtle blow set, and comparatively Odin uses significantly fewer TP moves, even though it might be dying a bit slower.

Forgot about odin. He works good for SB sets. But I think just using mnks roll instead is generally far better. So, on that part, I agree with Mala. I have done odin with every DD at this point.

You cleared wave three bosses with smn and blm? How did you do that?

I mean, You can easily clear everything with most DPS... so we should remove everything with everything lol.

you can MB the w3 bosses.

Swapping a few items around should be much less of a DPS loss than losing Chaos or Fighters. I'll make a WAR set in a few.

This ^ 2/4 of my early clears were with BLM/SMN/SCH focused alliances.

Zero DD jobs used.

Oh, you mean using all the other jobs and magic bursting. Thought you meant just those jobs. Nevermind, i didn't understand your point.

my point is warrior is useless, how about that? can clear everything safer and or faster with other jobs

Idk, most fights are nearly 100% safe and sub 30 seconds with many jobs. I think you are confusing "useless" with "not ideal". I also think you are underestimating how easy most jobs can do most content. If your point is "useless" then you are making a laughably bad point. You seem to be drunk or something.

so why risk using warrior which is less safe than other options?

and when you're not heavily overgeared, reducing mob tp moves is better than trying to zerg it down.

not really, i think you're overestimating dps. i use mnk and nin for everything i melee, even pre-buff, i used mnk for everything and had no issue clearing content. it was considerably easier too because of the subtle blow.

I'm not convinced you understand how safe/easy it is to clear content with warrior or other jobs lol. There really isn't a fight I would call dangerous for war unless you prepare poorly.
In todays ffxi, a LARGE portion of the population is heavily over geared. I agree that SB is good. I just think using mnks roll is generally better than switching the set up a bunch. You seem to be arguing with people who agree with you. You are just making an extreme example for some reason.

i don't think you realize how over geared you are.

well not yojimbo and all of his friends apparently. and since i am overgeared, why wouldn't i use an easier and safer strategy?

That could be true. But most of the gear isnt really needed. I have seen many MB set ups die on many mobs. I wouldn't really say they are much safer tbh. A group tried a BLM build on Albumen on asura the other day. They failed 3 times. SMN burn set ups wipe ALL the time. Go sit and flux 2, used to sell Wild Cards to groups. For helms anyway, melee zergs have been consistently faster for me and much more consistent in winning. Ambuscade is usually an effortless melee. I would actually say for a large chunk of content, melee is the fast and safe way. Bursting and SMN burning is a great under geared method I guess? I never did it too much because I found it boring.

War doesnt have to have a crap ton of gear either. Don't have to use an idris geo ( i usually don't). Rostam cor is nice. But I have done all of them with discount cor. Sometimes we use sam/mnk/war/drk/drg. I mean, melee does a great job now.

Lately I have been clearing content with non ideal weapons. You can clear everything with fencer war using a club. H2h zergs on war work for literally everything. A really easy to obtain GS zerg will clear everything. You can do a magic based strategy on war for most content and it is easy. You can do SB builds on every other DPS as well. You just found a strat that works for you and seem to think it is the ideal set up. Lots of safe and easy set ups are out there. You can do a safe 30 minute clear, you can also do a safe 20 second clear.


I have always noticed something weird about the SB discussions. You usually get 4 specific people talking about how it is ideal and a must have and a few Randoms saying "Idk, I have done everything easily without it" and the SB white knights lose their minds.

I personally think it is just another way to skin a cat.

Which fight has this kind of time variance?

schah is the only one I can think of. 20s being the smn thing and 30min being the normal way

It wasn't meant for a specific fight, But Schah comes to mind. You can kill him in a melee zerg in like 20 seconds ( I have seen 17 seconds). You can slow style him which can be safely but can take almost the whole window. Onychophora can be done in under a minute and I have seen strats take almost the entire time.

I think it is around 30 seconds. But a super safe and easy method for schah is just warx2 geo cor bard whm. Bolster frail/vex/attunement Sam/Runist and he doesnt touch you. Then you zerg his pants off. That strat works for most helms.

all you're proving is that DPS doesn't matter. so again, why not do it safer and easier?

I guess I need to spell it out for you. I am saying your method isnt safer and easier... So, why not do it faster?

Not sure how you came to that conclusion lol. The obvious point I am making is "subtle blow is useful, but not necessary".