A Swing And A Myth: Guide To Liberator

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A Swing and a Myth: Guide to Liberator
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-07 08:16:39  
To be blunt, I didn't know we were comparing doing a Light SC with Calad against a Dark SC on a scythe, I was merely referring to the general habit of having better 3+ step chains with a scythe than gswd, not discussing properties.

Also you completely went full boar on dissing Liberator's darkness SC potential, and ignore me saying flat out that I think Redemption is a much better option these days, no matter how much I love Liberator myself.

If you wish to question what are "good" scythe multistep darkness skillchains, then let's compare apples to apples and compare Scythe vs Gswd darkness chains, and then Scythe vs Gswd light chains. Not one against the other.
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By SimonSes 2021-11-07 09:02:15  
I did it, because that's not the first post from various people, who talk about Liberator specifically being good for self SCing in general and Darkness was mentioned more than Light. Im not gonna waste time searching specific posts now, unless you will tell me it never happened, but you know its not true, so I hope you wont argue about it.

If you mentioned Gsword vs Scythe tho. I think for Light SC Scourge > Resolution > Torcleaver is probably competitive to what Liberator can do and simple Torcleaver spam with Caladbolg can potentially beat Scythe skillchain too, depends how big is skillchain weakness on target.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-07 09:10:23  
SimonSes said: »
I did it, because that's not the first post from various people, who talk about Liberator specifically being good for self SCing in general and Darkness was mentioned more than Light. Im not gonna waste time searching specific posts now, unless you will tell me it never happened, but you know its not true, so I hope you wont argue about it.

If you mentioned Gsword vs Scythe tho. I think for Light SC Scourge > Resolution > Torcleaver is probably competitive to what Liberator can do and simple Torcleaver spam with Caladbolg can potentially beat Scythe skillchain too, depends how big is skillchain weakness on target.

I agree that Gswd has workable Light options in the 2 and 3 step format that extremely powerful. In fact, I'm currently strongly debating building a Ragnarok just to add that mix into my options even as a Calad owner. So on that front, no doubt we're on the same page.

I do think people generalize mythics a lot by saying "oh they're good for skillchains", its true. And when you're working with the attached WS (Insurgency) having so much potential not only for solo multistep light options, but also plays well with friends on that side, no doubt when comparing what Liberator can do, the stronger option is going to be light vs darkness.

But for some, in particular in Odyssey:Gaol fights where you're going to be lacking Hasso, that AM3 on a mythic can make up for less than ideal sets and making that chaining a thing that happens vs doesn't- and that's a big difference from comparing best option to another option that still works, just not as strong.

With strong enough sets and buffs, 3 and 4 step chains with Apoc or Redemption are quite possible and very productive as well, but I do think they require more. And for many, AM3 becomes a crutch to avoid truly analyzing sets and buffs to improve them, rather than a tool added to the mix in a positive way.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-07 09:20:30  
SimonSes said: »
What's that DPS store TP build for Liberator that is so much better in DPS than Sakpata? Attack capped and uncapped if possible. Im only getting 6-8% difference in damage compering 5/5 Sakpata and store TP build. Is this a difference you are talking about?
Using Flamma Head/hands, Hjarrandi body, Odyssean Legs with 8 STP augment, and Valorous feet with 8 STP augment, when a 60 STP Samurai roll is up I'm getting about 8.9% lower with 5/5 R20 Sakpata than full STP set when uncapped, 5.8% lower when capped. The differences increase to about 12.7% and 9.6% respectively if you don't have SAM roll for whatever reason or other.

Given that Liberator is already a bit behind Caladbolg in DPS, this much of a further drop when you have to play defensive is significant.

SimonSes said: »
Ok this is something that really gets me confused. What are those famous long Darkness skillchain with Liberator, that you keep talking about? Especially not involving "crap WSs"?
I never said anything about long Darkness SCs.
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By SimonSes 2021-11-07 09:39:16  
Asura.Geriond said: »
I never said anything about long Darkness SCs.

Fine, what are good darkness SCs with Liberator. Short or long w/e. Unless you just meant that you can make Darkness self SC at all with Liberator and you can't with Calad, so it automatically is better if Darkness SC is super effective? :)
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-07 09:41:37  
Neither, because I'm talking about making Darkness with others, not self-SCing.

If a mob takes significantly higher Darkness SC damage than Light SC damage (like 25% vs 100% or 50% vs 130%), you can use Entropy or Cross Reaper (preferably the latter) instead of Insurgency when applicable to participate in better SCs with others than Caladbolg can work with, and the SC damage will make up for them being a bit weaker than Liberator Insurgency.
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By SimonSes 2021-11-07 09:48:28  
Asura.Geriond said: »
Yes, the latter. If a mob takes say, 25% light SC damage but 100% darkness SC damage, you can use Entropy or Cross Reaper instead of Insurgency when applicable to participate in better SCs with others than Caladbolg can work with.

Well to be fair if you take other people into the equation, then Caladbolg can make a massive Darkness, since Torcleaver is Distortion/Light. So as closing WS to make Darkness with some Graviation WS Caladbolg/Torcleaver is actually very powerful. It's only a problem when you need to self SC and want Darkness. I agree Liberator is more flexible here tho, since you can use Distortion or Gravitation. That being said, if I would use Scythe to make Darkness skillchain with someone, because I need Gravitation WS, I wouldn't use Liberator probably, unless that's only REMA Scythe I have.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-07 09:52:21  
This was just a comparison between Liberator and Caladbolg, not a comparison between Liberator and other scythes, though. I agree I'd probably use Anguta or Redemption if Darkness SC flexibility was important, but that wasn't the conversation.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-11-07 11:28:00  
Setting up lua for what Absorbs to swap in Liberator, I assume it does nothing for Absorb-Attri? Does it work for TP?
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By Nariont 2021-11-07 11:38:08  
Pretty sure its only for the base stat absorbs and maybe abs-acc, doesnt work on the rest
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By Kyniker 2021-11-07 11:45:58  
Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm gonna consider making Liberator, I'm really drawn to Redemption but the Chloris farm is just so damn awfull xD, I'm working towards the TP sets on the HighEnd DRK tread for Liberator, but I doubt I'll ever use it since all the content I do with DRK is Odyssey and Ambuscade V1VD, and without Sakpata I'll probably end as a floor tank
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2021-11-07 12:23:42  
Kyniker said: »
Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm gonna consider making Liberator, I'm really drawn to Redemption but the Chloris farm is just so damn awfull xD, I'm working towards the TP sets on the HighEnd DRK tread for Liberator, but I doubt I'll ever use it since all the content I do with DRK is Odyssey and Ambuscade V1VD, and without Sakpata I'll probably end as a floor tank

You won't regret it, I'm switching between Calad and Lib depending what I'm doing. Redemption only useful in niche situations.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-11-07 12:31:52  
Nariont said: »
Pretty sure its only for the base stat absorbs and maybe abs-acc, doesnt work on the rest
That would follow with what I have found on wiki
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Category:Absorb_Spell#Equipment
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-07 12:33:10  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
You won't regret it, I'm switching between Calad and Lib depending what I'm doing. Redemption only useful in niche situations.

Its so interesting- I could say the exact same thing about Calad/Redemption and its Lib that has grown into more niche- but a lot depends on play style, typical buff situation you face, and content. DRK really has grown up in the past 5 years into a very complex and enjoyable DD in my book.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-11-07 12:36:43  
In the world full of Savage blade spam Insurgency is nice for making lights off of it.
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 Bahamut.Xeones
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By Bahamut.Xeones 2024-02-13 20:09:14  
Best 4 step WS combo for Lib to make darkness?
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By SimonSes 2024-02-13 20:24:35  
Bahamut.Xeones said: »
Best 4 step WS combo for Lib to make darkness?

Insurgency -> Entropy -> Cross Reaper -> Quietus
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-02-13 20:26:04  
There are a lot, but presuming you want to open with Insurgency at 3kTP to get AM3 up:
Insurgency (M) > Entropy (MM) > [Gravitation] > Cross Reaper / Quietus (E) / Spiral Hell (Q) > [Darkness] > Quietus (E)

Theres a bunch of Darkness 4step, you can find all the SC options using FFXI Calculator. Limiting WS usage to Cross Reaper, Spiral Hell, Entropy, Insurgency and Quietus, your option seems to be:
One of CrossReaper/Quietus/SpiralHell > Insurgency > Entropy > One of Cross/Spiral/Quietus
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 Bahamut.Xeones
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By Bahamut.Xeones 2024-02-13 22:42:01  
Yay! i'm pulling off 4 step with mythic pretty easy, but i'm not trhilled with dmg :(

kind of feel like Calad spam is better

Although i suppose there is lots of sitations where scythe shines!
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By SimonSes 2024-02-14 04:36:34  
Bahamut.Xeones said: »
Yay! i'm pulling off 4 step with mythic pretty easy, but i'm not trhilled with dmg :(

kind of feel like Calad spam is better

Although i suppose there is lots of sitations where scythe shines!

When you do that skillchain, you need to remember you want to hold TP to 2000+ on first 3 WSs. Only Quietus is done as soon as you can. AM3 on Liberator should provide fast enough TP gain for that. Unless you are doing some solo, then it might be a problem without Samurai roll I guess.
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By Taint 2024-02-14 06:50:48  
Bahamut.Xeones said: »
Yay! i'm pulling off 4 step with mythic pretty easy, but i'm not trhilled with dmg :(

kind of feel like Calad spam is better

Although i suppose there is lots of sitations where scythe shines!


Liberator is similar to Chango, you don't get the impressive huge numbers but when you add it all up it does extremely well. (frequency, SC damage etc) AM3 is also incredibly easy to maintain with a solid impact set.
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 Asura.Aquatiq
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By Asura.Aquatiq 2024-02-14 14:56:05  
Is there a modern AM3 TP set that won't get me absolutely blown up in sortie/odyssey? I don't mind falling short of 3-hit just need to not be a dead DRK. Proper M.Eva seems to only be available on Sakpata/Nyame/Empy+3. So for now I've piecemealed the +3 head w/ the rest being Sakpata. End up at 48% PDT with a moonlight ring. lmk if there's room to trade off some DT for better offensive stats, but the main concern is not wanting to drop to M.Eva levels that predate the content
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2024-02-14 14:56:50  
Asura.Aquatiq said: »
Is there a modern AM3 TP set that won't get me absolutely blown up in sortie/odyssey?

I'd ask what content specifically you're building for. Would get you a better answer.

Reading is fun!

I agree with Male for Sortie, since all the bosses do magic damage, you're better off 5/5 Sakpata.

Odyssey, assuming you mean bosses, further assuming you mean Mboze, you're going to want to make sure both your TP AND WS sets have capped SB and probably Niqmaddu in both for the SBII, maybe even Dagon as well.

If segs then well, it's almost trash content outside floor 4 at this point, so with Dread Spikes and Drain III you could almost wear whatever you want. Apkallus still might *** you up though.
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By SimonSes 2024-02-14 15:06:46  
Asura.Aquatiq said: »
Is there a modern AM3 TP set that won't get me absolutely blown up in sortie/odyssey? I don't mind falling short of 3-hit just need to not be a dead DRK. Proper M.Eva seems to only be available on Sakpata/Nyame/Empy+3. So for now I've piecemealed the +3 head w/ the rest being Sakpata. End up at 48% PDT with a moonlight ring. lmk if there's room to trade off some DT for better offensive stats, but the main concern is not wanting to drop to M.Eva levels that predate the content

Just full sakpata with storeTP accessories, unless you have path A Nyame feet.
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-02-14 15:11:58  
Asura.Aquatiq said: »
Is there a modern AM3 TP set that won't get me absolutely blown up in sortie/odyssey? I don't mind falling short of 3-hit just need to not be a dead DRK. Proper M.Eva seems to only be available on Sakpata/Nyame/Empy+3. So for now I've piecemealed the +3 head w/ the rest being Sakpata. End up at 48% PDT with a moonlight ring. lmk if there's room to trade off some DT for better offensive stats, but the main concern is not wanting to drop to M.Eva levels that predate the content

If you're looking to sacrifice DPS to get meva, then Sakpata is your man. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to avoid DA like the plague when you have mythic AM3 up, it's just less impactful when compared to TA, QA, and STP. If you're trying to get a 3-hit build with Liberator and good meva, it's not going to happen, sorry.

It's a boring answer but TBH, if your goal is to have 50% DT and also have high meva, I'd say wear 5/5 Sakpata. Losing 36 meva and 2 PDT to get some PDL (for white damage?) and some acc/atk seems counter to your initial point.

If you want to drop some meva to get a more mythic-centric build, you could add hjarrandi breastplate and/or helm (assuming you have LR up for these bosses). This solves the DT problem, but leaves you open to meva problems.
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By SimonSes 2024-02-14 15:27:09  
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
If you're trying to get a 3-hit build with Liberator and good meva

Not necessarily. With good Samurai roll you can get 3hit even with full Sakpata, because Liberator has very high delay (528), so also very high TP per hit.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-02-14 18:10:05  
I have a R15 Liberator and find the SU5 path B far more enjoyable.

You get the crazy multi-attack and you don't have to waste time constantly getting the AM3 back up.

The multi-attack is just always on. Cross Reapers hit like a truck.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2024-02-14 21:19:16  
I doubt Father Time being better than a Liberator R15 in any scenario. Insurgency is strong, and getting to 3k does not take long with good buffs.

Edit: Great for tough fights where Subtle Blow can make the difference.
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-02-14 23:01:57  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
I doubt Father Time being better than a Liberator R15 in any scenario. Insurgency is strong, and getting to 3k does not take long with good buffs.

When you are down to your last NM for triple RP charge and need the DRK to limit TP feed on Mboze.

Not joking, that was a thing.
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By Taint 2024-02-15 07:57:48  
Impact gives ~2500-2900TP, use it abuse it.
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