Why Does Everyone Hate On Pup

Which is why i stack resist gear when fighting them >.> I know how to gear when I play ballista. Arete del sol x2 + flawless ribbon and them binds/sleeps are lucky to land at all yet alone stick for more than a couple seconds

Even if we agree to disagree with ballista though, again, what does you beating a sam in ballista have to do on how drk performs in the game? Its a pretty crappy job outside of zergs and even then you need a kraken/octave/mkris to be anything special

Well, then I misunderstood. Not like they elaborated on the point anyway.

My point still stands though. Practically anyone with half a brain can kite ***.

Wow so many PUP haters :(

I joined the game late (april 08) and took PUP to 75 after RDM,

I play casually and liked PUP cos of the brains you need to actually play the job instead of being a healer/refresh ***.

Before people start knocking it, imo its the most fun job in the game,try a job before you dis it. I stopped playing while meriting mine, but even w/o merits the RNG automaton was WS'ing for 1400+ against Colibri's.

I remember solo'ing certain Campaign mobs /DNC with the WHM frame at lvl 73 with a full evasion setup with ease.

Im not saying PUP is invincible, there are still mobs I can straight tank as RDM/NIN easier than PUP/DNC, and yes- with shitty gear.

My 2 Cents is yes, there are lolPUPs out there, but most good PUP's levelled the job to be differant and for the FUN of the job, therefore understood it fully and didnt level it just to say "I have X amount of 75's". It was a awesome PUP on my server I know who inspired me to level the job in the 1st place after seeing what it could do.

Imma go running from the flames now..... >.>

The only "valueable" nukeing jobs are blm, the blm-automaton and sch. With todays equip for PUP that adds MACC and MAB the blm-frame can easily do 1500+ dmg on wamouras (just for a comparison, you can argue about the mob yea, since wamouras have 2 modes etc. etc. but ppl make dmg comparisons with colibris.... c'mon) with a blizzard IV.

Now tell me the number of BLMs you know that can exceed that with the same spell and how long their MP pool lasts when doing so. I'm not argueing about resists on HNMs because i already wrote about that.

The bottom line is things a BLM can nuke, any other job can as well, so it's hardly an achievement theese days, lol.

In a free nuking/mana burn situation I would take a PUP.

I probably wouldn't take a PUP instead of a BLM or SCH, but I would consider a PUP.

They can nuke, they can nuke hard. With merits and gear they will easily keep up with an average to decent BLM.

The main problem with PUP and SMN is the lack of direct control you have over the pet. When you are timing nukes or MBing then they become less useful (but there are plenty of bad BLMs that would F up a timed nuke too).

PUP gets a bum wrap, they are similar to SCH in their flexibility, but for whatever reason it never caught on in quite the same way. Combine that with the fact a lot of PUPs do not do the job justice only perpetuates the stigma.

@ Sagittario
SAM > DRK in most situations and GTFO with this ballista talk, it means nothing. There is not denying it, on HNMs SAM has the most powerful single hit WS in the game, on merit mobs they have polearms and even now multi hit GKT WS.

DRK has some level of utility with spells that can effective enfeeble the mob in unique ways (Draining stats) and damage physically resistant mobs with souleater, but other than that DRK is for zerging...

And this coming from some one who is currently leveling DRK.

Oh, indeed. You raise a good point, even though you only had to change one word of my sentence to raise it.

However, I'm not whining about BLM being unique and exceptional. PUPs are. This thread is about PUP and why it is lol, not BLM and why that is lol. I have no reason to defend BLM; yet I have reason to point out flaws with PUP. So... um... Back on topic, please, Segaia?

PS. An adequately geared and merrited RDM can be a fantastic nuker on most things except high (high) level opposition. I find it quaint you'd leave that out of your nukers list and put PUP in.

As a healer, I resent that comment.

Don't blame people for having an "lolpup" attitude, then turn around and diss other jobs in the same breath.

I missed that and I resent that as well. Perhaps a Refresh, Haste and Phalanx cycle on the tank party in Dynamis is too challenging for Steo to maintain, so he feels the need to lash out at those who play the job he's unable to.

still it has an awesome effect, doesn't it^^



PUP, as a very versatile job, is aswell being hated because of the opinion that it can do nothing right. It is compared by a lot other jobs, like you did with BLM, therefore i was pointing out the pros of pup to let some prejudices die, tho i admit i formulated that in an aggressive way.



I saw some good RDM nukers out there, but the truth is only hardcore RDMs have a nuking set, because it requires a lot more time than ususal. RDMs have to focus on other sets first, so i left it out, but yea your right, even if they are just limited to T3 spells.

Yes, although I think the effort of writing your own sentences would have more of an effect.



It is a very versatile job and I'm sure it's very enjoyable. Perhaps someday I may get round to unlocking and levelling it. The reason it's compared to other jobs is actually because the majortiy of Puppermasters seeking 'bragging rights' bring these comparisons on themselves. You just have to read through this thread to see about a dozen examples of what I mean.







etc...

It says volumes about a job when their biggest merits is being able to do something four to five other jobs can do with ease. So a PUP can solo statues? So? Five other jobs can do that, and I didn't even give it any thought as to whether there was more that could. If somebody turned around and said "I just soloed Jailer of Love on my PUP", I'd be pretty impressed. The fact is they haven't.

If there is something unique a PUP can honestly do that NO other job can do, then I welcome anyone to show me it. The fact remains that PUP has complexity, enjoyment, but not much else going for it. It's just an amalgination of several other jobs with a few unique twists thrown in. Like it or not, that's how the developers made it.

It's down to the players to make it better than what it was made to be. What a shame the only PUPs who have come here to defend it are the ones who throw around how they can outdamage job X or outnuke job Y.



That is fair. Not many Red Mages gear up a nuking set, which is a shame. Red Mage has some pretty nice magic attack gear handy, and can throw out 800+ as a standard on a lot of things. As with PUP, it's elemental / monster level dependant. Red Mage would not make a very good nuker on Tiamat, for example, whereas on an Aura Statue, you'd be all for it.

And lol, I originally read "T3 Spells" as "93 Spells" and spent about five minutes trying to figure out wtf you were on about...

you know the "bragging rights" you talk about are the main aspects of the job itself and that's what pup players piss off, because we have to mention it to everyone in the world a thousand times and it still seems noone gets it.

We are not bragging, we are telling others what our parses have told us, because we have played the job to its full extend and actually did a lot trial and error to see what is best when doing X, with what frame and when even not to come and take an other job instead.



Actualy PUP should be a Necromancer and we would call it NCM by now. :)

Nonetheless.. I tell you some unique things about pup I currently have in mind:

1) 1 party of (full merited) PUPs can kill nearly anything in the world, without getting 1 point of damage (this goes for non AoE mobs, else you WILL)
2) Ability to vanish aggro completly from a mob via PUP-stun
3) creating 1k mp every minute (a blms dream)
4) casting T4 spells while still being able to run (another blm dream)
5) can cast beside elementals or magic aggroing mobs without getting aggro (how many times did you die because of damn magic aggro?)

That is the "most" unique about pup. The thing is with theese few you already can do a sh*t-ton of things, it is up to the player. The most unique thing is the PUP-Stun and is a lifesafer.

Tbh you are saying "amalganation" like it was something bad. You have one job that can undertake the tasks of many other jobs. That doesnt differ from RDM, BLU or SCH at all and mostly has more pros than cons, tho i am a hybrid-job fan so it might just be my preference. :)

But was pup makes it so interesting is that it has access close to the highest tiers in each category. Cure V, Regen III for the whm automaton. T4 spells, Drain + Aspir, Absorb-INT for the blm automaton. Shield bash and very high hp for paladin automaton. High ranged attack and a WS that partly ingores defense for the ranger automaton. Theese are all things that others hybrid jobs are limited to.



You are right,pup really still needs a lot of updates and since ffxiv is coming i don't rly see it happen, which is plain sad. In my opinion it is like 70% done, but thats still a lot to go.

Tho, I have explained the nuking thing already 2 times, and why a blm automaton will do it and when, which already remembers me of the first sentence i wrote in this post. Im not offending you but you have to admit that this is just the common when talkin about pup. For the meleedamage i'd generally say "it sometimes depends", because i can say for sure that PUP will mostly never get equal to a SAM or RNG in most situations after level 55-60 (when sidewinder and the good SAM-WSs kicks in).

Besides we don't throw anything around. We explain things over and over again, why it is so, how we do it, when we do it at all, we parse things and do a lot trial and error through our long career as pup and when some ppl question the obvious "for us" (which isnt a bad thing at all - i encourage everyone to question something even if it a 100 times) it is just annyoing for us.

What SAM wouldn't be pissed when 10 ppl in a row question him "lol SAM is a DD?" ? - i hope this is understandable. We don't mind showing what pup can do to change minds, but you know after some years it just gets boring.

Again, even if it might seem so, it is not meant against you in any way. I just want to make it clear. Oh and for the RDM... it is brutal as a RDM to have all this equip at all, if you don't have a Mog Satchel theese days i would say "don't even try" xD

gotta love wall-o-texts!!

because most pups fail hard? People who play the job horribly leaves the rest of the good pups with that title lol

Ohh Well then lolPups stop being so dam lol learn your job making it hard out here for a master.....lmao

Been reading through this thread for quite some time.

All i have to say is that Sag is the most ignorant *** of the thread, With only one 75 and have never played PUP leaves you no reason to judge the job until you have played it.

Secondly it doesnt matter how many 75's you have (Not exactly hard to level to 75's today so its hardly a quote to win an argument) no right to say a job sucks if you havnt personally played the job to its full potentioal.

As far as lol"insert job here" goes, i say that more to the player, not the job itself.

Ive played with PUP before and its pretty good, but not for me, doesnt mean i think its lol.

Another thing, Segaia knows what hes talking about.

I know RDM inside-out, thats my 'main' job. Any Decent Dyna shell uses RDM mainly as sleepers, only reason i'd use your "cycle" is if there was a supertank.

Also, I levelled RDM to 75 before level-sync came in, and thats where RDM got the name of refresh *** :P

Refresh, Haste and Phalanx cycle on the tank party- {Easy Prey}

Your point?

kinda off-topic there, but to stay on topic...

I am a PUP fan :)

heh, me too kinda ;)

PS.: fan != fanboyism

I love to play my pup and still try out some situations in endgame.

Pup is not for all endgame things good. Most time my ls leaders want me as BLM WHM SCH or SMN. A Pup will hard fail on Dark Ixion.... Lol .... like me, but i tryed it. The recast time is a no go for Pup in endgame.

Pup in sky is no Problem change frame u need on different mobs.

I hate to read " I have x 75 and say pup fails" or a pup is never a real dd.... Waste of time to play it ...... etc. => Puppetmaster Job is fun and a great solo job. Puppetmaster need alot longer to skill all Frames and to get Gear and WS like normal DD.

Yes its right a pup have not the same dmg output from a well geared Sam or MNK. But why ppl play PUP??? Its easier to click only on attack button and use max 3 Macros like sam or mnk and say lol pup. Its easier to skillup only 1 part as to do it for 3 Puppet frames. A Puppet have a A-class skill on frames and can do good dmg in different situations, but not on all. Its hard to control the Puppet and SE really need to fix it in future. B H2H Skill would help too to get more PPL on this job. Why give SE Puppets access to enkidu and Usu Gear??? Yes to make more DMG.

For all other jobs its easy to get the last WS. They use Trial Weapon and do a mini fight to get better DMG output. For Puppets its hard to get "Stringing Pummel"...... Yes most PUP use Howling Fist or Dragon Kick... Its highest to get on normal way. For Stringing Pummel u need alot of Nyzul Isle runs and a pup will never get an invite to a nyzul run. So u have other jobs on 75???

Puppetmaster is a job not for everyone. If u dont want to play it... its ok, but dont forget FFXI is a game and other ppl like to try it out.

the main thing people forget is yes a blm can do more dmg when merited. but a pup can cast these t4 & immeniately erase all hate. also calling them away & back the blm frame has unlimited mp.
Same goes for the whm frame unlimited Cure5's & easy to erase hate.
Same with the ranger auto can pull off a 1k+ dmg ws call away all hate erased.

As a solo job every campaign battle i do all these strong dd's everyone talk about like war or sams can't even pull hate from little old me & we can actually look after ourself.

& in a split of a moment when auto set up right can change from 1 frame to another in seconds.

overall people scared of what they can't understand, so only the intelligent people do this cus takes concentration.

There are some good reasons to level pup and gear him up. I love to play it and its nice to help my friends as pup.

For CB im only as pup and get normally ón a long fight 3500 EXP+ and yes a pup/war with whm frame can easily Tank 1 or 2 Mobs. Cure 5 and regen3 helps alot:)

@all: Plz dont forget before u say lolpup: The DMG for puppetmaster is on Puppet and not on master and yes with full ACC gear will the master miss alot on lvl 76+ mobs...... Thats the reason Puppetmaster in Sky use only BLM Frame and Limbus DD Frame (when u get an invite as pup).

My gear is not bad but not the best and i try always to get better gear......

I play all my jobs but puppetmaster is most fun overall....

For all PPL who never tryed to play pup=> level it and get all frames and u will enjoy it when u have enough gil to play it ;D