Dev Tracker - Discussion

To save everyone else a few hours:

The Chocobo event will award:
1st Win, Tender Bouquet.
2nd win, Athena Orb.
3rd win, FES Key.

Subsequent daily wins, assuming the other two items are already in your inventory, gets you the FES Key.

So: Dbox the Bouquet, use Login Points for the Orb, get the Key on your first win (which can take a number of attempts).

Otherwise, you’ll be sitting there for an hour in frustration trying to be this poor little guy’s wing man.

Edit: Oh also! For Step 1, the gift picking part, the gifts are found in the pattern of the first letter of the element day. So Firesday = F Pattern, Lightsday = L pattern, etc.

Anyone won the chocobo love thing yet? Tried 15 times today and even when i reached the female, she didnt like him so never won.

My observation is that the gifts dug up in Part 1 have different point values (some might even be negative value).

Speculatively:

Gysahl Greens +1
Azouph Greens +2
Sharug Greens +3
Zegham Carrot +10 (the rarest)

So by the time you get to Part 3, if the point thershold is not met (let’s assume 5 points), the male will be rejected, assuming you did the pathfinding correctly OR if neither male reaches the female, if the threshold is exceeded, she will choose your Chocobo.

The gifts will be found in the pattern of the first letter of the day, but their placement in the pattern appears randomized. So that at least guarantees getting three gifts out of three dig attempts.

Edit: With respect to the pathfinding, (1) there’s two-or-three route patterns only (if I’m remembering correctly), (2) the random choice of which row the female chooses, (3) and a 50/50 chance of where the opponent male will start, after you’ve chosen. Or letting the opponent choose first and deciding after. I haven’t bothered to map out an optimal strategy for that, but under each scenario there should be an optimal choice that guarantees a win state.

I have only done it a handful of times, but it also seems that when I do get 3 gifts (maybe I have gotten lucky with higher ranked gifts), then IF she doesn't match with the other chocobo, she will change her mind and still choose mine. So I have noticed that if either my chocobo's path leads to her or neither chocobos' paths lead to her, I win. Again, maybe that is based on a high gift rating???

I would love to hear the results of others. Thanks!

EDIT: I have gotten all 3 gifts and been rejected by her :( Going to try to find patterns with the routes to the female.

There's vomp carrots too. Anyway, double impish boxes for me today, well, one box and one silver voucher because I kept a box.

Here's where I'm at so far and can now win back-to-back with a much higher consistency (~4-5 minutes per run).

Game 1 - Digging:

Based on my logs from 155 successful digs (~55 games), there is a 1:8 ratio of Greens:Carrots dug.

With Greens and Carrots having just about the exact number dug up amongst themselves, ±3.

I use TH terms below as a placeholder, not as definitive percentages.

[What I wrote below is a bit older thinking but I'll include it anyways. I have a theory of a Point system, but while reviewing the data, observed four instances of contradiction. I think it might have something to do with a combinatory set of gifts as opposed to a pure point count system, but then that's contradicted too so I'm not certain. Well, anyways, point system aside, having the paths mapped is more valuable.]

Speculative:

• Key Takeaway:

  5 Point threshold to be accepted by the female upon successful pathfinding.

  6 Points or higher for the female to move if neither male reaches her.

So, for example:

Two Gysahls and an Azouph will be rejected if the female is reached (4 total).
One Sharug and two missed digs will be rejected if the female is reached (3 total).
One Sharug and two Gysahls will be accepted if the female is reached (5 total).

One Gysahl, Azouph, and Sharug will get the female to move if both males fail pathfinding (6 total).
Three Azouphs will get the female to move if both males fail pathfinding (6 total).
One Zegham and two missed digs will not get the female to move if both males fail pathfinding (5 total).

And so on...

Now, across my first 45 runs I had one contradiction to this theory (Two Azouphs and one Ghysahl, 5 points) and the female did move to my male in that instance. Nevertheless, it's a workable framework.


Game 2 - iloveyou:


The correct password adds +1 to the Point system, maybe? But everyone gets this so I don't consider it.


Game 3 - Pathfinding:

x marks the leaf path/pivot point.

There are three possible path maps in total to my observation, flipped either horizontally and/or vertically:




Anecdotally, I find I tend to get Path 1A and 3C most often. [Haven't counted frequency, just mentioning it.]

• Key Takeaway:

  It is always better to let the opponent choose first.

  If you choose first, you are at the mercy of where the opponent chooses to start, determining the path.

  If you choose second, you remove that factor and can route out the path given the information above. (Take a screenshot, refer to that next time it pops up, rotate the picture if it helps you visualize.)

  By choosing second, certain scenarios will be a forced loss. Therefore you want to choose a path where neither male reaches the female, and where the point system (6+ total) becomes important for the female to move to your male.
  

I think that's about it for now! I got a Null Loop so that's nice.

The next version update is scheduled for early March.

With this version update, we are shifting the Trust magic system from a party-support role to one focused on expanding solo play. Going forward, we will continue refining its core mechanics as part of a broader overhaul of the overall system.

As a first step toward this goal, the March version update will implement a new system known as alter ego points that can be used to upgrade the stats of your alter egos.

----

This sounds good, no? As a non-multiboxxer, this month has felt extra quiet for... well, everything.

unless it does more than increase HP/MP it's kinda meh... don't get me wrong, more HP/MP on them is nice, and can certainly carry you farther if you're soloing, but what they really need is a system to modify their AI. Even if it's just nominally.

Another lengthy grind system to add a few meaningless stat points to your Trusts, when the entire Moogle Mastery system has already been designed and implemented and would take all of fifteen seconds to make globally available? EAFD, SE.

Hurray, exactly what they need. Stats! That's the problem!

Bet you can't wait to grind 500 hours for +10 STR ON YOUR TRUST. *** YEAH!!!

Let's thought experiment the other extreme. What if it's stats +500? Ok, they can survive and have enough accuracy to hit things. Their decision tree and abilities are still gonna suck. What else? What are the other unintended consequences of SE over-correcting?

Give them 9999 hp 9999 mp 999 BP

They're still useless (it would be awesome for negating ballad and evokers roll for a bit though)

The only thing of any consequence that could be "bad" is you make tanks +200 ENM and make them completely indestructible so that you could solo up to a V10 Goal boss.

They're already "good enough" to do all (except TVR finale?) missions. They're "good enough" to get 99 and master and Ml50.

Where they fail is efficiency. Time and MP.

You would have to make them literal gods to even slightly negatively impact the game in any meaningful way.

If its "basic parameters" (BP, attributes), then no they can't survive because they don't have Magic Evasion, MDB, or -DT beyond their native traits. They can't wear gear to further increase that. I also don't like that my Trusts have good accuracy (one of the many reason I never summon August is because he has 100% accuracy), because Qultada or whoever will always Burning Blade for 2692 right in the middle of your 3-step. They don't have WSD gear, so all of their damage sucks regardless of their BP. Even with Moogle Mastery 45 and a Chaos Roll/Fury Frailty from Sylvie, Matsui-P (the strongest trust) caps out at like 30k Blade: Ten. If you could buff a trust to consistently hit those kind of numbers, that would be interesting, but afaik, mostly everyone uses Trusts as support jobs to help their main. Now, they are saying they want to shift trusts from party support to solo play, not sure what that means. I can't see them going overboard with Trust strength to the point where you can basically kill Sortie/Odyssey bosses on their own and all you have to do is sit back and Regen V on SCH. So how much can you reasonably buff trusts to the point they're worth more than Dia3/Fury/Fraily/Chaos Roll/Haste2?

Also, one main area where Trusts (soloing) is used is in Limbus, but you're limited to only 3. If Limbus is to be the primary content for the foreseeable future, and you are soloing, party slots are a premium. You're almost always going to summon (Cornelia) support trusts and DPS yourself (Koru, Qultada, Sylvie, Ygnas). People will almost always still use buff trusts instead of using Zeid II to DPS. It's just not reality.

We already know how a "stat up" boost will work as it is similar to Moogle Mastery. Anyone with a decently leveled Moogle Mastery will tell you that it certainly helps with survivability, but the Trust's usefulness does not increase in any meaningful way.

AAEV will stop getting absolutely clapped in two hits by Gaol bosses, but she doesn't have any meaningful upgrades in terms of damage output, cure strength or enmity generation. Mastery is simply making them die less...which is a start but it isn't going to move the needle for most people.

As far as Limbus goes, I have no idea why they limit to three Trusts, it just makes the solo runs excruciatingly slow (yes, I'm certain they are trying to "push" you do group up, but we know that many people will simply not do this). Even with five powered up Trusts you won't be doing this content nearly as fast or safely as a real party or alliance so I do not understand the restriction at all there.

August's *** up the skillchain skill rises .1

I mean the easiest way to improve trusts would be to just switch a bunch of the useless dd trusts to supports and give them simpler rules and no ws, like one just always uses march one does minuets, one does sam and cor roll etc. Let us just pick the buffs we want instead of trying to have some logic that messes everything up.

Pretty sure they directly said it was because Limbus is open world content, and the zones would lag TF out of everyone had 5 trusts up. So they limited it to 3. Evidently they did some kind of server stress test and determined that 3 was fine. Now I wonder how much of that is true, because in domain invasion or reisenjima or other escha zones that are open, there's no such limitation and the zones don't lag at all (maybe Mireu does, but that's not limited either). Maybe it's because those events are limited in time, whereas Limbus is 24/7 open world. In any case, I'd argue the 3 trust limitation in Limbus is bigger hindrance to solo player progress than trust strength. They should survive more than one AOE though.

I did complete the TVR final battle solo with trusts on Monk with Dancer subjob, but it took me about 30 tries and I finally beat it during the Alter Ego Expo Campaign HQ when the trusts have more HP/MP, more resistance to status ailments, and can avoid dying once per fight. This was almost two years ago, I wasn't even using Gearswap and didn't really understand the gearing system yet. It's probably possible to beat it in a non-campaign month but it would still be impressive to me. NextGames posted a video that showed him doing the fight with trusts.

I mainly want to know if the increased stats will increase the potency of Sylvie's geomancy buffs.

You absolutely know they won't. They clearly say battle parameters. Hoxne earring. You're getting more CHR INT MND etc. Not "Roll Potency +7". They even explicitly say they want to shift away from support based trusts and power them up for "solo play". I take that to mean they want them to be stronger and worth using as more than buff batteries

Yeah, perhaps.... allow players to order Trust, to a degree......

An option to toggle on/off when they WS/what WS. Otherwise, they WS whenever they want/whatever they want. Have not played retail in months, doubt much has changed since then.

Interesting update. However, this grind is the reason I have not played retail in months lol.

Exp, on top of exp, on top of exp......

Armor upgrades, on top of armor upgrades, on top of armor upgrades.....

etc, etc......

Yeah I always thought it was unlikely that the buffs will be improved but I've been entertaining a small amount of hope. I know they're going to raise the basic parameters like MND/INT etc. because it's in the announcement. I wouldn't expect a Geomancy+ boost like you get with Idris or Bagua Charm but if they raised Sylvie's geomancy and handbell skill that could give a boost.
It's likely a pipe dream, though.

I do want to be able to recall trusts if they die in the middle of a battle, similar to how you can raise party members, and I want trusts to not be dismissed when you get charmed. I know that's not included in what they've announced but that would make a big difference to me without making them overpowered. Calling a trust is treated as a spell but it's a spell you can't cast when you have enmity. It seems silly to me since you can cast raise in the middle of a fight. It would still be subject to the recast-time limitation even if the enmity-lockout was removed.

To follow up on this, there's virtually zero reason (besides SE is ultra lazy with coding) behind why you can't call passive trusts like Cornelia or Star Sibyl after you've gotten hate. They can't be attacked, cured or generate any enmity, so why would calling them mid-fight be restricted due to "enmity" rules? They even turned the enmity restriction off for Domain Invasion and Odyssey Gaol, so it's weird it exists at all in current game, but especially for passive trusts, who are all by accounts just passive buffs.


I'd grind 10,000 points per trust to be able to convert them from active to passive. Never needs to be healed, never can die, never attacks, but always gives their buff like Cornelia and never get in the way. I.e. Qultada just gives perma Chaos Roll, no action required. All KoH does is apply DiaIII aura on enemy/Haste2 on you. That would make all of the support ones instantly better.

With trust stat boosts, now you can play Brd for Zeid II to DD.

You're welcome.

SE should seriously implement FF12's Gambit system for this new trust system. One can dream I guess.

Well, back when they first announced this they mentioned AI changes down the line. The also mentioned a "gear" system like automaton attachments. But they also said this aspect (buffing stats directly through a "rp type system") was going to come first.

On that note, they said they'd be previewing this is a Freshly Picked before the update, iirc. Do we have a date for that?

Also, it seems that the final besieged update that was scheduled for January originally might still not be in.

There's these issues with the Trust system imho

1) There's a lot of useless Trusts which have no purpose at all, other than "oh! I love this NPC from the story/quest!"
2) Survivability, accuracy, magic accuracy, damage
3) They do AoE tagging mobs in your surrounding and inevitably dying short after in synergy with the previous point
4) Their (weak) WS interrupt your SC/multistep
5) Their *** annoying Haste creates issues with Haste 2 logic/application
6) Their buff duration is ridiculous (mostly just songs tbf, rest is okaysh?)


2) might be eventually solved by this first step they're implementing. I still think a couple of tanks could use a bit more DT (EV has some, August is fine with wings up) but that's "individual adjustment" and we're not in that step, yet

4) is easily solved by a global command "/trustws on-off", there, solved it. Don't need to include WSs that have no SC properties like Spirits Within, Dagda etc

I don't see a simple solution for 3.
6 could be solved by giving bard trusts a bit of duration? They don't have to give us 12 mins songs, but 2 mins is preposterous, especially with that shitty potency.
I see no simple solution for 5 either, other than individually adjusting the logic of RDM trusts?
1 again is no simple solution. This is a problem mostly because they keep saying they "reached the cap for number of trusts they can add". If we had no such issue they could keep adding trusts and at that point who cares if a lots are useless, but since we do have this issue then it's a problem.
They should re-purpose some trusts and give them at least some degree of meaning/utility, at least to some of them.

Some of the trust logic issue (who overwrites what buffs or if they do AoE) can be solved just by calling different trusts. I do wish they'd update the logic in a couple of them for differentiation though. (or introduce a couple new ones, not that we need more as most are useless)

The global problems are they are too squishy, too weak and use WS like a dunes newb. Hopefully these updates can address that (I'm optimistic about the first 2, not so much the 3rd)

I'd like to see some improvements, but the real solution is make friends and invite people. (easier said than done, I know)

As an autist, I just want stupid ***to grind that has enough value in my mind to make me want to engage with it. Stuff I can login for and grind out, and not have to jump through 20 hoops for.

They are finally learning that +/- 50% of players are solo, will never group and still need to be allowed to play the game.

If not for trusts the game probably would have closed long ago, they just need to make them actually work.

Extra stats is very much needed, removing the lock to ilevel is also needed (and currently is one of the dumbest things in the game, that cripples new players), -dmg, more refresh, the ability to regain MP in a meaningful way as players can etc

If they do it like with pup, adding attachments that turn on/off weapons skills would be great as well as other things based on trust type.

If they ever did this, I can totally see them saying "as a tradeoff for turning WS off, Apururu (UC), Naja Salaheem (UC), Pieuje (UC), and Sylvie (UC) will no longer use the WS "Nott".


Adventuring Fellows have an option via the Rendezvous Point where you can turn off "Area of Effect" abilities. So it can be done (though this might impact other abilities too). I also highly doubt this current Dev team has any clue about how Fellows operate or even know of the option buried in the Rendezvous Point, but the feature exists.


The solution to this is to add more trusts and give players the ability to delete older ones. There's an NPC that converts your Ciphers into trusts, just give him the option to remove certain trusts from your list so you can make room for others. Make it like a Blue Magic Spell List/Automaton list to where you have to visit the NPC if you want to make changes (you already visit Monberaux to pay him for his bonus). Can limit it to once per conquest tally if you don't want players doing it too much. I'm sure most players won't mind getting rid of Kupipi, Volker, and Iron Eater. 90% of the trusts are completely worthless and I don't need them in my Trust list anyways. It's actually quite annoying how the list resets after you summon them in Gaol (and they disappear from the list, then return in a random spot after Gaol ends).

Every single non UC healer is an idiot after you get Ygnas. None of the BLMs besides Shantotto II have any value after a certain point. AAEV is the best tank, August is way behind her, then you have Valaneiral as a special PLD, and the rest (Mnejing aside) are terrible. The rangers dont stand far away enough anyways, and their TP gain is terribly slow. All of the DDs besides Matsui-P are terrible except for low level. There's no replacement for Selt'heus, Monberaux, Sylvia or Cornelia. There's roughly ~10 trusts I might use on any given occasion, even when I do something like Odyssey triple RP solo charge. I really don't need to be carrying all of these trusts if I never use them and it means we'll never get new ones.

I mean, as things stand right now the baseline for Trusts is so low that any improvement on any vector is welcome.

I get the knee-jerk reaction of assuming the progression will be inconsequential. A good implementation will fundamentally change the way many people experience this game for the better in a way we haven't seen in a literal decade and honestly I feel like I can't dare to let myself hope. But the proposal involves points, which means grinding, and when they give us something to grind, boy howdy is the payoff huge.