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Dev Tracker - Discussion
 Bahamut.Agerine
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 431
By Bahamut.Agerine 2018-01-12 09:16:03
If the drop rate was higher... on literally any items in the zone I would have so much more fun in there. 12-18 man events and I come out with Maybe 1 shard( probably not), 5-10 rusted tags, 5-10 black tags... at that rate it would take 60-120 runs just to make a +2 off of tags alone without spending any Gil.
What are you doing .....
We routinely farm zones for currency and never pull numbers that low, that's an indication that your group is doing something fundamentally wrong.
Last night, 12 man run with my one mule acting as the loot collector. Farmed first wave mobs for 45 minutes before killing mid boss and farming second wave mobs for the remaining time.
304 Rusted cards
2 Beastman medals
161 Blackened cards
Five or six shards with another three or four void items on the second wave.
Our organization is one fully buffed DD party and one "tank" party. The THF/BRD is in the tank pt and their only job is to use horde lullaby + threnodies to tag every mob with TH. They do this quickly because the mobs have an average life expectancy of around 5~7 seconds. One "tank" is doing nothing but pulling two to three statues worth of mobs at a time while the second "tank" is using aoe hate tools (/BLU) to hold everything in one spot while the BRD's sleep and the DD's murder everything.
This is exactly like old Dynamis, reward is directly in relation with the quantity of monsters killed. Optimal farming strategies are to kill as many monsters as possible. Keep the meat grinder rolling forward and don't stop. We found the Leader NM's not worth the time, they rarely give anything other then four tags which we frequently get off regular mobs that die in a fraction of the time. For any single leader NM we can kill ten or more of a regular mob. The end boss's are only worth it if you can kill in under 15 minutes without major deaths or stoppages of currency farming.
As for the whole "OMG SO HARD TO GET", ***. I was in line for almost a year before I got my Chapeau from northlands. Relics took a year or more and that's with a lot of extra currency being purchased on the side. Dyna runs were twice a week with sponsors buying the hourglass and collecting the currency, super fast shells could farm out 450~700 currency per run depending on how generous 100 pieces were. People are just spoiled with getting gear within a few weeks of content release.
Okay. I’m talkin personal loot after leaving while letting all tags and medals fall to the RNG gods.
We get 2-5 shards and 2-5 void per run. I know a bunch of folks usually leave with 15 or more tags per run, it’s almost always job shards that no one is hoping for. We usually Zerg through things in no time but end of the day I’m sure there are some things we could switch up in terms of efficiency.
Honestly, our numbers aren’t much different. I’d have to test the mule logging idea to see actual numbers but you may get liie 50 more rusted than we do but our blackened are about in line. Same with medals with an Average of 1-3.
As for the omg so hard to get mindset.... those old days are over. I get what your sayin, but no one wants to do that ***anymore. That’s why the reward ratios much more close together now a day.
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-01-12 09:26:46
304 Rusted cards
2 Beastman medals
161 Blackened cards Let's be generous and assume you're running 8 people for all of this, and be generous on price over asura AH.
304 / 8 = 38 rusted cards at 15k = 570k
2 / 8 = .25 beastman medals at 2m = 500k
161 / 8 = 20.125 blackened id cards at 30k = 604k
Your team members made a total of 1674k each for a 2 hour farm requiring a relatively high level of coordination. Any average soloist could have made more than that while watching netflix and doing old dynamis.
There is clearly a problem with the effort:reward ratio.
 Valefor.Heabea
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34
By Valefor.Heabea 2018-01-12 09:31:05
The truth of the matter is that if the gear was so damn awesome the value on these items would at bare minimum double making it worth it. Outside of the odd piece of gear is it really useful for 80% of players. My group still prefers making sure we get our omen runs and smashing out REMAs and if we are really really bored we go to dynamis...
By geigei 2018-01-12 09:33:31
Same with medals with an Average of 1-3.
That's a new meaning for average right there.
Bahamut.Agerine
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 431
By Bahamut.Agerine 2018-01-12 09:36:26
Same with medals with an Average of 1-3.
That's a new meaning for average right there.
/yawn
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3184
By Asura.Geriond 2018-01-12 09:37:17
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »304 Rusted cards
2 Beastman medals
161 Blackened cards Let's be generous and assume you're running 8 people for all of this, and be generous on price over asura AH.
304 / 8 = 38 rusted cards at 15k = 570k
2 / 8 = .25 beastman medals at 2m = 500k
161 / 8 = 20.125 blackened id cards at 30k = 604k
Your team members made a total of 1674k each for a 2 hour farm requiring a relatively high level of coordination. Any average soloist could have made more than that while watching netflix and doing old dynamis.
There is clearly a problem with the effort:reward ratio. It's only a 1.5 hour farm, and if you're upgrading items instead of selling, each relevant foot/hand shard is worth 6m, and each voidshard is worth 9m.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-01-12 09:41:21
The dynamis d campaign should be coming sometime around summer. As one of the main people complaining about the lack of content, I'm not in the least bit shocked at how boring and grindy the event is, nor am I bothered. It took them a full year to release something after omen. Just accept the fact that any future content will follow suit. No idea why your hopes were up, the writing was on the wall months ago.
Omen was added after the final expansion (dec 2016) and when the game was in "maintenance mode" so I don't know why you're saying this is a sign of how future content will be. Developers don't hit the mark every time, some content is good and some not so good. It's not a sign of anything, also it's not even finished and refined.
I understand people always judge anything based on the last thing that is given out but you're overdoing it.
No I'm not overdoing it. I'm setting the standard for the expectations. The last real engaging content was Omen. They updated it periodically, the most recent being Ou, which is a joke. It took them a year to implement another mass end game event, which is now known as Dynamis Divergence. People are already (though prematurely) complaining that the gear is not that great and the grind is too heavy. The content itself, is literally garbage. Kill Aurix before he runs away. Kill fodder. Kill a boss. Kill more fodder. Kill a bigger boss. Pray for drops.
They have shown zero flashes over the past year of doing any more than maintaining the game, and offering miniscule improvements. Again, the only fresh content since after they mentioned the doomsday "End of FFXI" was Omen, which can be considered house money, considering we all thought the game was over after that live stream. There is no legitimate reason to expect any future content will be any more engaging than dynamis at this point, based on their recent trend. I'm just making sure its clear that it has not improved lately, and there's not reason to expect it will in the future.
 Bismarck.Nickeny
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2018-01-12 09:42:44
Haha
For anyone complaining about the gear, you are all idiots.
JSE sets have one or two powerful items, then the rest are either junk, enhance a specific ability or are niche / super situational. It's been that way for over a decade. In the past SE would release the entire set so you would see the nice item and completely ignore the three ***ones. Now they are releasing them one at at time so don't expect every JSE to be useful, expect 3/5 of the set to be ***.
They released 2 zones with heavy locks while 89% of its gear is trash... if they had released the full sets already maybe you would be on to something... but with the way it is now... pure trash... like the whole zzz boring drawn out easy event it is
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-01-12 09:52:17
It's only a 1.5 hour farm, and if you're upgrading items instead of selling, each relevant foot/hand shard is worth 6m, and each voidshard is worth 9m. You have to add gather time for a larger group, and can't start an event immediately before. It is closer to 2 hours than 1.5.
With the amount of shards/voids that drop the chances of them going toward pieces people care about are not that great. Even if you want to adjust numbers on both ends, you're not getting a reward suited to the group size and effort. Throw in that it's locked worse than ambuscade is, and something needs to change.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-01-12 10:01:14
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It's only a 1.5 hour farm, and if you're upgrading items instead of selling, each relevant foot/hand shard is worth 6m, and each voidshard is worth 9m. You have to add gather time for a larger group, and can't start an event immediately before. It is closer to 2 hours than 1.5.
With the amount of shards/voids that drop the chances of them going toward pieces people care about are not that great. Even if you want to adjust numbers on both ends, you're not getting a reward suited to the group size and effort. Throw in that it's locked worse than ambuscade is, and something needs to change.
Have done 5 runs. The average group size was 12-15 ppl, most of which is rema high tier players. Every run my group distributes drops. I have only sold one Beastmen Medal so far, but kept the rest. So far I've amassed: 6 Beastmen Medals (5 as direct drops from mid bosses, 1 converted from rusteds). I'm almost at 100 Black I cards for a kindred. Will have that next run.
So in 5 runs, I would have amassed enough (at least) to upgrade 1 piece of +2 hands or feet. That's actually very close to the same conversion rate as an Omen card campaign (6-10 cards/campaign, 5 runs, 30-50 cards spread). However, you can do Omen 3x as much as one dynamis run, not to include you may get free canteens from boss runs. So you can theoretically complete a piece of +3 Omen gear in less than a week, and it would take several weeks (even months) of pure farming to complete a piece of relic+3 gear, considering the lockout.
Statistically, the grind is the worst to date, but based on the history of dynamis, this is not surprising at all.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2018-01-12 10:13:56
If the devs took a poll and asked people how NOT to do a new event, you'd get what Dynamis D is now. It's almost scary how they did almost everything wrong when they did nearly everything right with Omen.
I really hope they delayed the other zones to fix them or make them unique in some meaningful way. If the last 3 are the same as the first 2, I'm going to be very disappointed. I understand they aren't working with much of a dev team right now, but they did so many basic things wrong it's not justifiable to me.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2018-01-12 10:17:50
Statistically, the grind is the worst to date, but based on the history of dynamis, this is not surprising at all.
If this was 2006 that would be acceptable. It is not.
If the devs took a poll and asked people how NOT to do a new event, you'd get what Dynamis D is now. It's almost scary how they did almost everything wrong when they did nearly everything right with Omen.
I really hope they delayed the other zones to fix them or make them unique in some meaningful way. If the last 3 are the same as the first 2, I'm going to be very disappointed. I understand they aren't working with much of a dev team right now, but they did so many basic things wrong it's not justifiable to me.
Eh... midbosses are still ***. Card amounts are excessive (with no campaign). Ou drops are a straight slap in the face insulting.
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By fonewear 2018-01-12 10:18:04
If the devs took a poll and asked people how NOT to do a new event, you'd get what Dynamis D is now. It's almost scary how they did almost everything wrong when they did nearly everything right with Omen.
I really hope they delayed the other zones to fix them or make them unique in some meaningful way. If the last 3 are the same as the first 2, I'm going to be very disappointed. I understand they aren't working with much of a dev team right now, but they did so many basic things wrong it's not justifiable to me.
Since Dynamis D has be implemented I've done exactly 2 runs. And that is 1 run too many.
It's everything you hate about Dynamis...but wait's there is more !
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By fonewear 2018-01-12 10:25:37
Statistically, the grind is the worst to date, but based on the history of dynamis, this is not surprising at all.
If this was 2006 that would be acceptable. It is not.
If the devs took a poll and asked people how NOT to do a new event, you'd get what Dynamis D is now. It's almost scary how they did almost everything wrong when they did nearly everything right with Omen.
I really hope they delayed the other zones to fix them or make them unique in some meaningful way. If the last 3 are the same as the first 2, I'm going to be very disappointed. I understand they aren't working with much of a dev team right now, but they did so many basic things wrong it's not justifiable to me.
Eh... midbosses are still ***. Card amounts are excessive (with no campaign). Ou drops are a straight slap in the face insulting.
They should just delete body armor from Omen cause from my experience they don't exist.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-01-12 10:25:40
I am not defending dynamis. Not one bit. Just being realistic. Original dynamis was grindy af. this is ilvl grindy af. And since I was one of the primary people complaining about new content, I have zero ground to complain about how boring or grindy something is. I'm just accepting what it is and leaving it at that.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2018-01-12 10:34:34
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »304 Rusted cards
2 Beastman medals
161 Blackened cards Let's be generous and assume you're running 8 people for all of this, and be generous on price over asura AH.
304 / 8 = 38 rusted cards at 15k = 570k
2 / 8 = .25 beastman medals at 2m = 500k
161 / 8 = 20.125 blackened id cards at 30k = 604k
Your team members made a total of 1674k each for a 2 hour farm requiring a relatively high level of coordination. Any average soloist could have made more than that while watching netflix and doing old dynamis.
There is clearly a problem with the effort:reward ratio.
Why on earth are you using money as a common denominator here? I was just referencing how that guys loot was so little in comparison. And it's not 2 hrs it's 90 minutes because SE hasn't implemented the second 30m extension. Also each shard is worth a *** ton of gil.
5 Shards = 15 Beastman medals = 30 million gil.
4 Void items = 12 Kindred medals = 36 million gil.
That's 66 million "gil" you completely forgot to add, 8.25 per person.
Of course you don't control the shards that drop, so some runs we get a ton of peoples stuff while others it's one one or two people who get an item their after. It's why I believe the NM leaders should have a 100% drop of one upgrade item of their job.
Okay. I’m talkin personal loot after leaving while letting all tags and medals fall to the RNG gods.
So you just admitted to bullshiting those numbers because your group isn't willing to come up with a centralized loot distribution system.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2018-01-12 10:43:43
Statistically, the grind is the worst to date, but based on the history of dynamis, this is not surprising at all. I am not defending dynamis. Not one bit. Just being realistic. Original dynamis was grindy af. this is ilvl grindy af. And since I was one of the primary people complaining about new content, I have zero ground to complain about how boring or grindy something is. I'm just accepting what it is and leaving it at that.
I'm surprised at how idiotic people are being. What kind of fantasy land do they live in where they expect something different. This is exactly what legacy Dynamis was back in the 75 era. You'd go into a zone, murder a ton of mobs, walk out with some currency and maybe a Relic item or two. The relic drops were random as *** and sometimes you'd see two RDM hats, other times you'd see exactly zero. You do this twice a week with a group of friends and have fun doing it. Our first run we were laughing the entire time because it really was die-namis. Ninja's going kaboomy, suicidal PLD's pulling far too much with "accidental" links, all the hilarity that ensues when someone decides to solo a BST/RNG monster and gets charmed. We laugh a lot, enjoy the run and just have fun.
I think the bellyaching is because people with bot armies can't merc it or use it for gil, which is the source of their entertainment now. We play games to have fun and entertain ourselves, not to boast about gil farming. Form a team with a long term goal of getting people what they need, come up with a strategy, then execute the strategy and have fun while doing it.
So far I've got 10 beastmen medals, 11 kindred medals saved along with several shards and voiditems for when I decide to make stuff. Did the RDM +2 hands cause I got the second voidshard droped to me so was "free" from a currency perspective. This is without an bot mule army multiplying my drops.
By geigei 2018-01-12 10:48:26
It comes down to how your group is shaped, if ppl pass drops to those who need more is ok, if every fuker lot on everything just because...which is very likely, then no.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2018-01-12 10:51:32
It comes down to how your group is shaped, if ppl pass drops to those who need more is ok, if every fuker lot on everything just because...which is very likely, then no.
Come up with a *** loot distribution system. This isn't hard, it's MMO Guilds 101. Loot *** will always lot everything if their allowed to, it's just human nature.
Right now we have a mule that's only purpose is running treasury to collect all the currency, that later gets split among the people participating in that run. Relic upgrade items are loted on a Main / Sub / FL tier list that we maintain and people can only change their lots once a month and it applied to all zones. This has been very successful in fairly distributing stuff, just like it was back in 2006.
By geigei 2018-01-12 10:52:33
How do you handle boxers, mules get counted or main onry?
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-01-12 11:02:21
Why on earth are you using money as a common denominator here? I was just referencing how that guys loot was so little in comparison. And it's not 2 hrs it's 90 minutes because SE hasn't implemented the second 30m extension. Also each shard is worth a *** ton of gil. 'money' is a common denominator because you can get your clear, leave, farm something useful, and buy the materials in a fraction of the time with no worry of lockouts.
Quote: 5 Shards = 15 Beastman medals = 30 million gil.
4 Void items = 12 Kindred medals = 36 million gil.
That's 66 million "gil" you completely forgot to add, 8.25 per person. Except, it's not. You can't spend that '66 million gil' on the items of your choice. You're all competing for the same shards, because everyone plays the same jobs while the rest fall to the wayside.
Quote: Of course you don't control the shards that drop, so some runs we get a ton of peoples stuff while others it's one one or two people who get an item their after. It's why I believe the NM leaders should have a 100% drop of one upgrade item of their job. I would agree having a 100% drop of jobs would help. I don't agree that it's reasonable reward rates though. They should have made the items EX if they wanted to keep it relevant, nobody competent is spending all these hours farming tags when they could merc a single aeonic in 3-6hr and buy the pieces outright.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2018-01-12 11:05:06
The world is upside down when thorny has been the voice of reason for the past year.
That should tell you something is seriously *** up.
By clearlyamule 2018-01-12 11:07:23
Another reason getting job specific ones is kind of hit or miss is because some jobs just don't have anything you'd really put much effort to gain outside of maybe some form of completionism
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-01-12 11:07:55
Saevel I understand how the original dynamis was, and everyone in this thread does as well. The difference is times have changed. Back in 75 era, it was fun because we weren't making anyserious money, and it was one of the few end game events we could do to get something shiny at the time. Besides levelling, what were people honestly doing during this era of FFXI? Not much. Over the years though, the formula is now "is this event worth the time, hassle, and money, and is the gear commensurate"? People changed with the times, because they made events have quick rewards for less effort.
People are having a hard time accepting the fact that the reward/effort ratio is embarrassingly pathetic compared to other methods. This event is the complete opposite of more recent events, where you actually have to put in insane amounts of grind time to get one piece. Also, the content leaves much to be desired, compared to something like omen. Personally, I'm not looking to make any money off of this event, and I'm really really happy its 60 hours because that music gets boring after about 5 minutes anyways and I can't do that grind for more than once a week or so.
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Fenrir.Kaldaek
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1012
By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2018-01-12 11:13:33
they made events have quick rewards for less effort.
This is true. Not because game rules people. I feel the developers adjusted the game to roll with the age increase of the player base.
When I started playing i was in high school. Now i'm 31 with 4 children and a home to provide for.
Damned if i'm wasting my precious ffxi time on this event. Unlock the job and buy the +3 from the AH. The end.
Bismarck.Nickeny
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2018-01-12 11:15:11
Everyone: dynamis is terible and is a waste of time... most of the gear is trash...
2 people: idiots... stop acting like babies this event is perfect
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2018-01-12 11:16:10
Everyone: dynamis is terible and is a waste of time... most of the gear is trash...
2 people: idiots... stop acting like babies this event is perfect
Saevel is -always- that guy. It's just who he is.
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Bismarck.Nickeny
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2018-01-12 11:20:16
He made me chuckle with the mental gymnastics he uses to make this event appear to look good..
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Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-01-12 11:27:04
You must be considering saevel as 2 persons, because I've stated multiple times dynamis is trash and have not defended it once. I'm just stating that it was to be expected.
Also, just buy the damn items you need and be done with it.
This thread is for discussion of recent news from the Dev Tracker - News thread. Keep it civil.
Original thread by Pantafernando archived here.
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