Armor Break

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Armor break
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 02:01:27  
So a war with a Gaxe walks into a fight with 3000tp and does armor break? (25% defence down and 5 minute duration on mobs that don't resist water or thunder)
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By geigei 2017-06-09 03:20:05  
...then a sam walks into the fight with 3k tp and miss a fudo?
[+]
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 07:30:26  
indeed, has happened to me so many times, even if you cap acc /sigh
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-09 09:26:01  
Are you asking if WAR's should be using armor break or not? That would really depend on the nature of the fight and it's accuracy on CL150 stuff (where it really matters). I'm already doing something similar with Full Break since it's in my five step SC. I can see how I would build around Armor Break but ... the SC wouldn't be worth it considering I'd have to also use stuff like Keen Edge and be in a bad SC spot anyway. This would change if GAXE had a Liquifaction WS or someone used one right before you started.
 Sylph.Traxus
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By Sylph.Traxus 2017-06-09 10:10:39  
defense down is wind, not water or thunder.
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By Kodaijin 2017-06-09 11:02:17  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Are you asking if WAR's should be using armor break or not? That would really depend on the nature of the fight and it's accuracy on CL150 stuff (where it really matters). I'm already doing something similar with Full Break since it's in my five step SC. I can see how I would build around Armor Break but ... the SC wouldn't be worth it considering I'd have to also use stuff like Keen Edge and be in a bad SC spot anyway. This would change if GAXE had a Liquifaction WS or someone used one right before you started.

Whats your preferred 5 step?
 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-06-09 11:17:41  
KJ > FullBreak > Uphea > KJ > Uphea
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 11:33:50  
Sylph.Traxus said: »
defense down is wind, not water or thunder.
i screwed up which page i was looking on BG wiki for info at the time, my bad, however ice still affects it since ice is strong to wind
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 11:40:37  
if your doing lvl 150 content, then you'll be doing Armor break only once (Unless you miss) really at 3000% tp (Or less if your confident your group can kill in less than 2min) , after that you'd be going nuts with w/e else. same goes with other NMs that don't get taken down in 1 5step SC set, pop Armor break, then do your 5 step SC followed again by another 5 step SC etc etc.

full breaks defence down is less than armor breaks so if the NM has alot of hp, go with armor break at the start then w/e WSs you want after that without using armor break again, if not, do a 5step with full break as stated by fiasko
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By OmniKroe 2017-06-09 11:45:12  
There are many defense down ws's and abilities people arent using. I dont see how war should be any different. Im not saying dancers dont use box step, but crit evasion appears more tastey at times considering rudras massive crit bonus. Also would the 25% defense increase really add up to more then 3 1k tp ws(that actually matter) ontop of a real aprty set up (cor geo brd dia etc).
This is once again(like the attack down post), going to grant diminishing returns. For solo however or low man, or simply just buffless groups - If you can fit it in the start of a 4-6 step sc (like someone said full break) then i see it somewhat valuable.

Say you are using a REMA do you put this up. Before or after your 3k AM? And how much extra time does it consume gainging 3k more tp.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-09 11:52:21  
OmniKroe said: »
This is once again(like the attack down post), going to grant diminishing returns.

Actually ... defense down has increasing returns similar to that of haste. It's a minus at the bottom of a fraction so the more of it you have the more value each additional amount adds, until you hit cap.

My concern is landing it on CL150 content, the hard ***that has thousands of defense and is difficult to hit cap outside of bolster.

OmniKroe said: »
Say you are using a REMA do you put this up. Before or after your 3k AM? And how much extra time does it consume gainging 3k more tp.

Outside of Bravura none of the AM's on WAR's REMA's matter. You should absolutely not be "saving 3K TP" for an AM effect, nor for a break effect. I think the OP was thinking to start the fight out with 3K already and have Armor Break be the first WS, which might be a good idea if the content won't resist it.

The real issue is too many NM's have self erasing abilities that remove debuffs making it inpracticle to keep up full time. That is why I put FB in my five step, it gives the effects immediately prior to the major damaging components of the SC where they will have the greatest effect.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-06-09 12:06:09  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Outside of Bravura none of the AM's on WAR's REMA's matter.
Conqueror.

Yes, I know that the Double/Triple attack is very limited on the WAR mythic compared to other mythics, but still, a 20% Triple Attack buff that hits before double attacks proc is still better than nothing.

I would like to see a WAR hit that much in triple attack in one piece of gear alone.
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By clearlyamule 2017-06-09 12:07:59  
Odin.Horu said: »
Sylph.Traxus said: »
defense down is wind, not water or thunder.
i screwed up which page i was looking on BG wiki for info at the time, my bad, however ice still affects it since ice is strong to wind
Best not to assume resistances like that. Yeah it works for elemental and some mob families sort of But WE can and does just put resistances or weaknesses however they want.so more accurate to just say mobs resistant to wind will have a hard time landing
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 12:10:57  
What you say is true, doesn't mean you have to follow i say, I never ment to start this thread dis-purposing other tactics. was more that theres such a option if someone wants to try.
if the accuracy increase they did (Since it was part of the same update) is much like sam's ageha acc increase, theres a high chance it'll land at a high rate. altho testing is still going on in regards to higher level NMs, current tests for ageha say it'll land atleast 90% if not 100% considering duration resists. however those tests went up lv 139 and didn't include mobs that natually have extreme magic evasion.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-09 12:14:12  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Outside of Bravura none of the AM's on WAR's REMA's matter.
Conqueror.

Yes, I know that the Double/Triple attack is very limited on the WAR mythic compared to other mythics, but still, a 20% Triple Attack buff that hits before double attacks proc is still better than nothing.

I would like to see a WAR hit that much in triple attack in one piece of gear alone.

That's not how Mythic AM works.

QA -> TA -> DA -> OaT / Mythic AM

With how much multi-attack WAR's rock naturally, Conqs AM3 rarely procs and is a DPS loss saving to apply it. It's the enhanced berserk effect and 30% increase on KJ damage that makes it a competitive weapon.

And just to illustrate, in my Chango's TP set I have
3% QA
6% TA
91% DA

And that's with all the Store TP / ect.
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 12:15:20  
clearlyamule said: »
Odin.Horu said: »
Sylph.Traxus said: »
defense down is wind, not water or thunder.
i screwed up which page i was looking on BG wiki for info at the time, my bad, however ice still affects it since ice is strong to wind
Best not to assume resistances like that. Yeah it works for elemental and some mob families sort of But WE can and does just put resistances or weaknesses however they want.so more accurate to just say mobs resistant to wind will have a hard time landing
At what point did i assume? I never assumed at any point. I misquoted from the tests that others have done in regards to these WSs, please read what i wrote instead of glancing at it then assuming what i wrote.
Quote:
I was looking on BG wiki
(I referenced BG wiki and their tests)
Edit: I had 2-4 Gaxe WS pages loaded on my browser at the time i originally quoted it
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-06-09 12:15:28  
I stand corrected.

Sorry.
 Odin.Geriond
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By Odin.Geriond 2017-06-09 12:56:49  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Outside of Bravura none of the AM's on WAR's REMA's matter.
Conqueror.

Yes, I know that the Double/Triple attack is very limited on the WAR mythic compared to other mythics, but still, a 20% Triple Attack buff that hits before double attacks proc is still better than nothing.

I would like to see a WAR hit that much in triple attack in one piece of gear alone.

That's not how Mythic AM works.

QA -> TA -> DA -> OaT / Mythic AM

With how much multi-attack WAR's rock naturally, Conqs AM3 rarely procs and is a DPS loss saving to apply it. It's the enhanced berserk effect and 30% increase on KJ damage that makes it a competitive weapon.

And just to illustrate, in my Chango's TP set I have
3% QA
6% TA
91% DA

And that's with all the Store TP / ect.
That's only if you're using the same TP set that you use for non-Mythic weapons. Mythic weapons with AM3 up get much better returns for going all out in stacking STP instead of DA (keeping TA/QA too, of course).
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-09 14:01:16  
Umm...

I am stacking Store TP. For Warrior Conq's AM effect is nearly worthless. Before Multi-Attack become so common and when great sacrifices had to be made for Store TP, Mythic AM3 was very valuable. Nowadays it's just blah and practically worthless. Think the best case scenario result has it increasing TP gain by ~10%.

If you have 3K TP at the start of the fight then your not hurt using it since KJ scales decently with TP (unlike Ukko's), but you should never purposely slow down your WS's to "store to 3K", especially since Warrior has to much TP Bonus that doesn't count towards it. Conq's bonus to Berserk and KJ is quite potent and makes for some interesting results spamming KJ.
 Odin.Geriond
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By Odin.Geriond 2017-06-09 18:41:40  
I'd be interested in seeing a Conq set with nearly that much DA without being able to stick a significant amount more STP in exchange for DA.
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-06-09 19:04:28  
Not optimized at all, but there's a potential 108 STP /sam build for Conqueror, without delving into DM Augments. 291 TP/hit

Only 44% DA, including traits and gifts.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2017-06-09 19:31:57  
Asura.Saevel said: »
I can see how I would build around Armor Break but ... the SC wouldn't be worth it considering I'd have to also use stuff like Keen Edge and be in a bad SC spot anyway.

I'm of the same opinion generally. You don't need Keen Edge though.
Armor Break > Steel Cyclone > Upheaval > King's Justice > Upheaval > Upheaval/Ukko(Depending on Chango). I kinda recall using that forever ago.
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