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Random Politics & Religion #14
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:03:52
Where did he implicate that national born Muslims were a threat to the US?
At least a year ago. During the primaries he was calling for Muslim registries broadly. Not simply "incoming from foreign countries," as if that weren't bad enough.
From the NYT almost a year ago today ( 11/20/15)
Quote: Donald J. Trump, who earlier in the week said he was open to requiring Muslims in the United States to register in a database, said on Thursday night that he “would certainly implement that — absolutely.”
Mr. Trump was asked about the issue by an NBC News reporter and pressed on whether all Muslims in the country would be forced to register. “They have to be,” he said. “They have to be.’’
When asked how a system of registering Muslims would be carried out — whether, for instance, mosques would be where people could register — Mr. Trump said: “Different places. You sign up at different places. But it’s all about management. Our country has no management.’’
Asked later, as he signed autographs, how such a database would be different from Jews having to register in Nazi Germany, Mr. Trump repeatedly said, “You tell me,” until he stopped responding to the question.
Even Vox disagrees a bit (Claims he back pedaled on the national registry) : http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/16/13649764/trump-muslim-register-database
The implication was immigrants, not local born.
From that same article you pulled:
Quote: Both Mr. Trump and Ben Carson, the top two Republican presidential candidates in most polls, have made sharply provocative remarks about Muslim refugees from Syria and Iraq, and have been criticized by Muslim groups in the United States.
By Ramyrez 2016-11-17 15:03:57
No proof, no numbers, no sources, just your ironclad, infallible "hunch" that something is the way you've dreamed it up to be.
Sounds legit, "bro."
By Viciouss 2016-11-17 15:06:35
I wasn't unspecific.
I suspect there are probably million(S) of illegal alien votes in the popular vote totals. I suspect this because there isn't much preventing illegal people from voting in the first place.
If we want to argue about something else, I also suspect that many democrat votes were otherwise fraudulent. The dead vote and they vote democrat.
But none in the Electoral College, right? None whatsoever. But we have to "prove you wrong."
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:06:40
@Nausi
The argument you are tooting can not be proven wrong or right within reason. It also doesn't matter if its proven wrong or right so I have no idea why you are discussing it.
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:09:49
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »@Nausi
The argument you are tooting can not be proven wrong or right within reason. It also doesn't matter if its proven wrong or right so I have no idea why you are discussing it. sounds like religion.
As a formerly religious person, I agree.
By Ramyrez 2016-11-17 15:10:01
The implication was immigrants, not local born.
No, it wasn't. You're using the word wrong.
The implication was all Muslims.
His intention may have been just refugees which -- again -- is bad enough to single ANYONE out for their religion in that fashion. But the implication was to round up all Muslims and keep tabs on them just for being Muslims. And people heard that. And some people liked it.
I'm not saying everyone who voted for him did, but I'm certain it got him votes because some did.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2016-11-17 15:10:48
I wasn't unspecific.
I suspect there are probably million(S) of illegal alien votes in the popular vote totals. I suspect this because there isn't much preventing illegal people from voting in the first place.
If we want to argue about something else, I also suspect that many democrat votes were otherwise fraudulent. The dead vote and they vote democrat.
But none in the Electoral College, right? None whatsoever. But we have to "prove you wrong." I don't understand the point you're making.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2016-11-17 15:12:42
@Nausi
The argument you are tooting can not be proven wrong or right within reason. It also doesn't matter if its proven wrong or right so I have no idea why you are discussing it. Is providing opinions forbidden in rp&r? Is that a new rule?
I mean I know the thought police are kicking and screaming here but jeez.
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:17:18
The implication was immigrants, not local born.
No, it wasn't. You're using the word wrong.
The implication was all Muslims.
His intention may have been just refugees which -- again -- is bad enough to single ANYONE out for their religion in that fashion. But the implication was to round up all Muslims and keep tabs on them just for being Muslims. And people heard that. And some people liked it.
I'm not saying everyone who voted for him did, but I'm certain it got him votes because some did.
You are correct, I used the wrong word :(.
I'm not by any means agreeing with his plan.
I'm simply stating that his platform was not about creating diversity among voters. Unless you are going to state that simply disagreeing with some of his platform creates diversion in which case every presidential candidate ever ran on the platform of diversity.
His plans for cutting national ties are not there to create diversity among citizens (outside of disagreeing with them).
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:18:07
@Nausi
The argument you are tooting can not be proven wrong or right within reason. It also doesn't matter if its proven wrong or right so I have no idea why you are discussing it. Is providing opinions forbidden in rp&r? Is that a new rule?
I mean I know the thought police are kicking and screaming here but jeez.
No but you are arguing something that can't be proven either way and therefore the argument will serve no logical purpose. You and your opponents are operating on assumptions - which would be fine but at this point the election is over and none of this matters.
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:19:23
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »@Nausi
The argument you are tooting can not be proven wrong or right within reason. It also doesn't matter if its proven wrong or right so I have no idea why you are discussing it. sounds like religion.
As a formerly religious person, I agree. what religion did you formerly formally formality follow?
Christianity, it isn't that I am not following the religion. I am just far disconnected from the Church nor am I really religious anymore. I actually went to college briefly to become a pastor. That is also when I realized how wrong modern Christians are about the bible.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-11-17 15:20:10
Yup Pleebo because there is no difference between these two statements:
"Most illegal immigrants are rapist" and
"All Mexicans are rapist" The first one is paraphrasing and the second you made up to support your argument?
Media biased against Trump for repeating his own words.
Taking someone's words out of context is in fact an example of media bias. There's no context that makes his statement factual.
By Ramyrez 2016-11-17 15:20:43
It's just...you can't run on a platform of making America a bastion of homogenous White Christian Supremacy and claim it's not divisive.
Oh, sorry. "White Christian Supremacy" isn't term they like.
"Western values and western supremacy."
That's better. It hides the fact that they'll tolerate brown people as long as they fall in line with the rest of the plan.
Asura.Saevel
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Posts: 9851
By Asura.Saevel 2016-11-17 15:23:21
It's still funny to watch the meltdown continuing on here. People just can't accept reality and convince themselves it must be something different.
 Bahamut.Kara
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2016-11-17 15:24:02
All of those only applied to things outside of the US such as other nations and immigration. These are all heavily nationalistic views which center around coming together as an independent country.
Excuse me?
Are you suggesting that we do not have 3M+ Muslim Americans, many native born?
Where did he implicate that national born Muslims were a threat to the US? When he stated they were hiding terrorists in their communities?
Quote: They have to work with us.
They have to cooperate with law enforcement and turn in the people who they know are bad. They know it. And they have to do it, and they have to do it forthwith.”
They have to work with us. They know what’s going on. They know that he was bad. They knew the people in San Bernardino were bad. But you know what? They didn’t turn them in. And you know what? We had death and destruction. Quote: The bottom line is that the only reason the killer was in America in the first place was because we allowed his family to come here, Killer was born in US, but his parents were immigrants.....so
http://time.com/4367120/orlando-shooting-donald-trump-transcript/
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:24:30
Yup Pleebo because there is no difference between these two statements:
"Most illegal immigrants are rapist" and
"All Mexicans are rapist" The first one is paraphrasing and the second you made up to support your argument?
Media biased against Trump for repeating his own words.
Taking someone's words out of context is in fact an example of media bias. There's no context that makes his statement factual.
I paraphrased correctly, the second is literally what people were saying Trump said based on that statement.
We also aren't arguing the validity of his statements but rather how the media slants them to fit their bias. They didn't report on just what he said rather they took what he said and removed it from context and slapped a sensational title on the article. I can't count the number of times I saw an article on Reddit with a crazy title that would then quote a Trump line that when taken in context wasn't as utterly unreasonable as they made it sound. I still mostly disagreed with it but it wasn't as outrageous as the articles title made it out to be.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-11-17 15:26:04
It's still funny to watch the meltdown continuing on here. People just can't accept reality and convince themselves it must be something different. If only these posts existed.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-11-17 15:26:48
What is this meltdown we're supposedly in the midst of here?
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:27:00
It's just...you can't run on a platform of making America a bastion of homogenous White Christian Supremacy and claim it's not divisive.
Oh, sorry. "White Christian Supremacy" isn't term they like.
"Western values and western supremacy."
That's better. It hides the fact that they'll tolerate brown people as long as they fall in line with the rest of the plan.
I feel that is the platform Breitbart made it seem like he was running on.
I'm ok with disagreeing here, but I followed the leftist articles about him and found a distinct pattern where they always created outrage and diversity and never felt that same diversity was replicated in his own words.
By Ramyrez 2016-11-17 15:27:21
It's still funny to watch the meltdown continuing on here. People just can't accept reality and convince themselves it must be something different.
Who is melting down about what again?
I'm saying that Trump used divisive white nationalist rhetoric and it got him some followers. I've said countless time it's a minority of his followers, but you can't deny that he appealed to and garnered the votes of those people.
David Duke vocally and publically supported the man and his policies.
I'm not saying Trump even wanted that, but he appeals to a broad variety of people and among them are said terrible human beings.
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-17 15:29:00
I feel that is the platform Breitbart made it seem like he was running on.
I'm ok with disagreeing here, but I followed the leftist articles about him and found a distinct pattern where they always created outrage and diversity and never felt that same diversity was replicated in his own words.
I'm not saying the media helped matters at all.
But I am saying Trump's core message had elements of the America he wants to make great includes core "values" that all Americans don't exactly share.
[+]
By eliroo 2016-11-17 15:30:12
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »@Nausi
The argument you are tooting can not be proven wrong or right within reason. It also doesn't matter if its proven wrong or right so I have no idea why you are discussing it. sounds like religion.
As a formerly religious person, I agree. what religion did you formerly formally formality follow?
Christianity, it isn't that I am not following the religion. I am just far disconnected from the Church nor am I really religious anymore. I actually went to college briefly to become a pastor. That is also when I realized how wrong modern Christians are about the bible. oh, I see.
The base spirituality and belief is sound and makes sense, but yeah of course with humankind being so flawed, the organized religions we create are also flawed.
Absolutely. I lost my faith in the church organization but not the religion itself and not all of the people.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2016-11-17 15:36:45
It's still funny to watch the meltdown continuing on here. People just can't accept reality and convince themselves it must be something different. 
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-11-17 15:38:06
It's still funny to watch the meltdown continuing on here. People just can't accept reality and convince themselves it must be something different. You guys are the worst trolls.
Node 285
Because Isack isn't on. He gets the next two. >.>
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