Random Politics & Religion #13

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Random Politics & Religion #13
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By 2016-10-18 10:55:37
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 11:01:45  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
eliroo said: »
Are you for real man? Remember that game where you grab the shapes and put them into their proper hole? Yea, this is like that game. There isn't a sign telling you to put that block into that hole but if it fits then it is probably the right hole. Like why would some one not only request that emails classification (that was being investigated) be changed but also offer quid pro quo?

Come on man, you aren't this blind are you?

That's one single request for one single email. The request was rejected by the FBI. So calm down with the conspiracies.

You can't just simplify it like that. The fact that it was a request from the state department with an incentive. It wasn't rejected by the FBI either, they didn't have clearance to change it.

You can simplify any situation and make it sound like a non-issue.

This was an email that was under-going investigation. The motives are very clear and the motives are what people are playing at - not the result. This isn't a conspiracy, it is proofed and apparent.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-10-18 11:07:20  
Naked statue of Hillary Clinton in downtown Manhattan causes fight during morning commute
 
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By 2016-10-18 11:11:54
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-10-18 11:16:55  
eliroo said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
It is illegal. That's why it was in the news.

And right now it looks like Trump is rigging the election against himself.
So accepting money from registered foreign agents who are working as lobbyist is ok but someone signing up or being signed up to received emails from Trumps campaign is bad?
Soliciting campaign contributions from non citizens is illegal. American citizens are allowed to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances." That's right there in the first amendment.

The amendment does not not say the lobbyists must lobby for American interests, citizens, or corporations.

Personally I think both lobbying and campaign contributions should be illegal, but I amn't the constitution, am I?

Quote:
Like the only reason she is getting those emails is because someone put her email on the list, that is dumb.
Hundreds of European politicians have received solicitations from the Trump campaign. This is not an isolated incident.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-10-18 11:25:58  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
You got your investigation and your answer... You're pretty much just upset to didn't get the answer you wanted...
You do realize that investigations can be reopened, right?

Just because it was closed with recommendation to not prosecute doesn't make the party innocent. Especially now that evidence is being presented that the investigation itself was compromised in benefit of the investigated.

I mean, who destroys evidence in the middle of the investigation? Who makes immunity plea bargains before the investigation starts? Who does such a sub-standard investigation, ignoring obvious points and methodologies, to suit the desires of the investigated?

That "investigation" is a sham and just the acts of the investigation dictate possible collusion. And now that the original evidence was destroyed to protect a few people, the investigators need to be charged with conspiracy to commit fraud. When is that going to happen?

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Some of the things you stated are exaggerated and some even false....
Like what? And you have to prove it to be false too.
Says the person that hasn't proven any of them to be true lol... You're such a joke...
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-10-18 11:31:03  

Blinding motorists is generally not a good idea.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-10-18 11:31:53  
eliroo said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
This whole investigation has been about discrediting her for the presidential campaign...

Of course it has been, That is literally what both parties are trying to do with either candidate. At least this investigation is related to a serious issue.

Also the oversight committee could still rule to re-open the investigation.

There is actually a very strong case for Perjury as the information the provided under oath was contradicted with other testimonies and information. Proving lying vs. ignorance is pretty hard. Either way if she was that ignorant do you really want this lady to run our country?
So what you're saying here is that you're ok with government using taxpayer funds to launch an attack campaign against another party?

this is just like the hacking situation... It's appearently wrong to hack and the people that went out of their way to crucify Snowden for leaking information and wiki leaks for posting it no seem to be in favor of these leaks that are damaging the dnc and Clinton... Irony abound because one of the things they're most concerned about with hillarys emails being on a private server is them getting hacked... But since it's damaging the Dems it seems to be fair game now...

There really isn't a case for perjury either which has already been examined...
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-10-18 11:41:07  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »

Blinding motorists is generally not a good idea.

I was hoping it would move us past the email topic... it's boring me to tears.
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 11:41:25  
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
eliroo said: »
It wasn't rejected by the FBI either, they didn't have clearance to change it.

It's a document classified by the FBI, hence why the request was made to the FBI. They had the clearance, they just rejected it.

You are forgetting it wasn't a request to the FBI but a person in the FBI, that person did not have the clearance since the emailed belonged to the CTD.


Garuda.Chanti said: »
Hundreds of European politicians have received solicitations from the Trump campaign. This is not an isolated incident.

And some Internet troll can't put all their emails on the list?



Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
There really isn't a case for perjury either which has already been examined...

IIRC the oversight committee is still examining this. Again though, if a perjury claim isn't made then Hillary is claiming ignorance.
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 11:42:02  
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »

Blinding motorists is generally not a good idea.

I was hoping it would move us past the email topic... it's boring me to tears.

We can move back to the Trump groping discussion.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-10-18 11:47:54  
Whining about not getting your way under the guise of conspiracy. Basically taken straight from the Trump playbook.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-10-18 11:54:27  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Whining about not getting your way under the guise of conspiracy. Basically taken straight from the Trump playbook.

Well, if you prefer, we can get discuss things taken from the liberal double-standard playbook.
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 11:55:14  
Dismissing pressing issues under the guise that they are conspiracy. Basically taken straight from the Clinton playbook.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-10-18 12:00:01  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Whining about not getting your way under the guise of conspiracy. Basically taken straight from the Trump playbook.

Well, if you prefer, we can get discuss things taken from the liberal double-standard playbook.
I'll take something from your playbook then... Your nuts if you think double standards only apply on the liberal side...
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2016-10-18 12:04:22  
eliroo said: »
You are forgetting it wasn't a request to the FBI but a person in the FBI, that person did not have the clearance since the email belonged to the CTD.

Uh ok, you are just trying to redefine words and definitions to fit KN's narrative. A request was made, nothing happened. You can twist the words of rejected around as much as you want, but the end result was: Nothing happened. No collusion took place.
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 12:17:43  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
eliroo said: »
You are forgetting it wasn't a request to the FBI but a person in the FBI, that person did not have the clearance since the email belonged to the CTD.

Uh ok, you are just trying to redefine words and definitions to fit KN's narrative. A request was made, nothing happened. You can twist the words of rejected around as much as you want, but the end result was: Nothing happened. No collusion took place.

Aren't you just twisting the events to match your narrative? I literally just explained the actual events that happened. You are the one that is changing it to sound less severe.

Undersecretary of state department request the classification of an email under scrutiny to be changed in exchange for something. The request is made to Mr. Redacted.

Mr. Redacted cannot change the classification because it is part of the CTD FBI division.


Shiva.Viciousss said: »
No collusion took place


Quote:
Full Definition of collusion
: secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose

Lets go through the checklist

  • It was secret

  • There was cooperation as [redacted] clearly tried to pursue declassification but lacked clearance

  • It was deceitful. The email was under investigation and instead of given a reason the undersecretary offer a quid pro quo.



Honestly if there was an actual intent put behind the declassification that would entirely different.

There was collusion between the departments no matter how you spin it.

You could argue, if it really worth making a big deal about the collusion. Which I could agree a bit with that. In this case the result was denial.
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 12:21:14  
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Whining about not getting your way under the guise of conspiracy. Basically taken straight from the Trump playbook.

Well, if you prefer, we can get discuss things taken from the liberal double-standard playbook.
I'll take something from your playbook then... Your nuts if you think double standards only apply on the liberal side...

To be entirely fair, he said the liberal double-standard playbook, not the conservative double-standard playbook.

But I agree, you have to be extremely unaware and ignorant to think that both liberals and conservatives don't have double standards. It is especially apparent on the internet.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-10-18 12:22:57  
Backread the last 4 pages I missed...you guys are being even worse than usual.

Kill #13 pls.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-10-18 12:25:06  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Whining about not getting your way under the guise of conspiracy. Basically taken straight from the Trump playbook.

Well, if you prefer, we can get discuss things taken from the liberal double-standard playbook.
You can try to change the subject all you'd like. There's nothing to support King's new word of the week, collusion. Evidence wasn't destroyed and granting immunity is not inherently suspicious for investigations. It's not much different from LG's rants on flouride. Baseless and misinformed.
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 12:25:17  
Why not join in on the fun Sehachan!
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 12:27:19  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Baseless and misinformed.

KN's speculations are based off of information provided.

Disagree with him all you want, but none of what he says is baseless or misinformed.

If anything you are probably being the misinformed one as you choose to be ignorant of the topic and dismiss it.
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 12:30:01  
In other news: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trumps-five-point-plan-for-ethics-reform


Quote:
​DONALD J. TRUMP’S FIVE-POINT PLAN FOR ETHICS REFORM

“It’s Time To Drain The Swamp In Washington, D.C. That’s Why I’m Proposing A Package Of Ethics Reforms To Make Our Government Honest Once Again.” - Donald J. Trump


First: I am going to re-institute a 5-year ban on all executive branch officials lobbying the government for 5 years after they leave government service. I am going to ask Congress to pass this ban into law so that it cannot be lifted by executive order.

Second: I am going to ask Congress to institute its own 5-year ban on lobbying by former members of Congress and their staffs.

Third: I am going to expand the definition of lobbyist so we close all the loopholes that former government officials use by labeling themselves consultants and advisors when we all know they are lobbyists.

Fourth: I am going to issue a lifetime ban against senior executive branch officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government.

Fifth: I am going to ask Congress to pass a campaign finance reform that prevents registered foreign lobbyists from raising money in American elections.

Not only will we end our government corruption, but we will end the economic stagnation.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2016-10-18 12:34:28  
eliroo said: »
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
eliroo said: »
You are forgetting it wasn't a request to the FBI but a person in the FBI, that person did not have the clearance since the email belonged to the CTD.

Uh ok, you are just trying to redefine words and definitions to fit KN's narrative. A request was made, nothing happened. You can twist the words of rejected around as much as you want, but the end result was: Nothing happened. No collusion took place.

There was cooperation as [redacted] clearly tried to pursue declassification but lacked clearance

Where is the evidence of Mr Redacted "clearly trying to pursue declassification?" As far as I could tell, Mr. Redacted received the request from State, notified someone higher up the chain, they said no, he replied with no.
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By eliroo 2016-10-18 12:36:04  
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
eliroo said: »
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
eliroo said: »
You are forgetting it wasn't a request to the FBI but a person in the FBI, that person did not have the clearance since the email belonged to the CTD.

Uh ok, you are just trying to redefine words and definitions to fit KN's narrative. A request was made, nothing happened. You can twist the words of rejected around as much as you want, but the end result was: Nothing happened. No collusion took place.

There was cooperation as [redacted] clearly tried to pursue declassification but lacked clearance

Where is the evidence of Mr Redacted "clearly trying to pursue declassification?" As far as I could tell, Mr. Redacted received the request from State, notified someone higher up the chain, they said no, he replied with no.


That would be pursuing it knowing that a quid pro quo was offered. If he didn't pursue it he would have never notified anyone else and rejected it on the spot.

Anyway, lets move on since you want to blatantly ignore evidence.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-10-18 12:37:05  
eliroo said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Baseless and misinformed.

KN's speculations are based off of information provided.

Disagree with him all you want, but none of what he says is baseless or misinformed.

If anything you are probably being the misinformed one as you choose to be ignorant of the topic and dismiss it.
Baseless as in there's no factual basis. C'mon, Mr. Dictionary.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-10-18 12:38:43  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Backread the last 4 pages I missed...you guys are being even worse than usual.

Kill #13 pls.

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By eliroo 2016-10-18 12:40:13  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
eliroo said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Baseless and misinformed.

KN's speculations are based off of information provided.

Disagree with him all you want, but none of what he says is baseless or misinformed.

If anything you are probably being the misinformed one as you choose to be ignorant of the topic and dismiss it.
Baseless as in there's no factual basis. C'mon, Mr. Dictionary.

Except there is factual basis, he is using the FBI's documentation as his basis. Unless you are going to claim that 4 part documentation that the FBI released to be fictitious. Certainly you aren't implying that.
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2016-10-18 12:45:13  
eliroo said: »

That would be pursuing it knowing that a quid pro quo was offered. If he didn't pursue it he would have never notified anyone else and rejected it on the spot.

Anyway, lets move on since you want to blatantly ignore evidence.

Uh, no. I am not ignoring anything. You keep trying to say Mr Redacted "lacked the clearance" and thats the wrong word. It's not about lacking the clearance, the peon at the FBI lacked the authority to do anything. He couldn't approve it, he couldn't reject it. He had no choice but to follow procedure and send it over to the correct department and they promptly said no. Credit Mr. Redacted for doing the right thing, he didn't "collude" with anyone.
 
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By 2016-10-18 12:49:52
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