Random Politics & Religion #13

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2010-06-21
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Random Politics & Religion #13
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-10-17 15:33:14  
Really the only people that would have benefited were Patrick Kennedy and Jake Sullivan. Which is why Jason Miller a spokesman for Trump is on circuit today demanding that Clinton immediately disavow Kennedy.
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By Phoenix.Xantavia 2016-10-17 15:33:17  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Clinton Campaign, DNC Coordinated With Organizations To Incite Violence At Trump Events

Quote:
A new video investigation released Monday by James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas Action shows how Democratic-aligned organizations used a tactic called 'bird-dogging' to incite violence and chaos at Trump rallies for media consumption. A key Clinton operative is captured on camera saying, "It doesn’t matter what the friggin’ legal and ethics people say, we need to win this ***."

In the video, Democratic activists Robert Creamer and Scott Foval reveal their strategy to create a sense of "anarchy" in and around Donald Trump events over the course of the campaign. Foval tells an undercover operative: "One of the things we do is we stage very authentic grassroots protests right in their faces at their own events. Like, we infiltrate."

"So the term bird dogging: You put people in the line, at the front which means that they have to get there at six in the morning because they have to get in front at the rally, so that when Trump comes down the rope line, they’re the ones asking him the question in front of the reporter, because they’re pre-placed there," explains Foval. "To funnel that kind of operation, you have to start back with people two weeks ahead of time and train them how to ask questions. You have to train them to bird dog.”

In another undercover interview, Creamer tells Project Veritas that his organization, Democracy Partners, has daily check-ins with the Clinton campaign in order to coordinate efforts. “I just had a call with the campaign and the DNC, every day at one o’clock,” says Creamer subordinate Zulema Rodriguez in the video.

Foval explains to O'Keefe's undercover journalist how the web of Democratic organizations is designed to subvert laws preventing Super PACs and political action groups from organizing directly with campaigns: "The campaign pays DNC, DNC pays Democracy Partners, Democracy Partners pays the Foval Group, the Foval Group goes and executes the ***on the ground... Democracy Partners is the tip of the spear on that stuff."

"We're consultants so we're not the official entity and so those conversations can be had between consultants," Foval explains, “The campaigns and DNC cannot go near [Democratic super PAC] Priorities [USA], but I guaran-damn-tee you that the people who run the Super PACs all talk to each other and we and a few other people are the hubs of that communication.”

One event specifically mentioned by the Democratic operatives to have been 'bird-dogged' was the September incident in North Carolina where a 69-year-old woman was supposedly assaulted by a Trump supporter. In reality, the woman was "trained" by Foval as part of his operation. “She was one of our activists,” he says.

“I’m saying we have mentally ill people, that we pay to do ***, make no mistake,” says Foval in the video. “Over the last twenty years, I’ve paid off a few homeless guys to do some crazy stuff, and I’ve also taken them for dinner, and I’ve also made sure they had a hotel, and a shower. And I put them in a program. Like I’ve done that. But the reality is, a lot of people especially our union guys. A lot of our union guys…they’ll do whatever you want. They’re rock and roll. When I need to get something done in Arkansas, the first guy I call is the head of the AFL-CIO down there, because he will say, ‘What do you need?’ And I will say, I need a guy who will do this, this and this. And they find that guy. And that guy will be like, Hell yeah, let’s do it.”

"It doesn't matter what the friggin' legal and ethics people say, we need to win this ***," Foval also said.
If only the creator of this video wasn't also behind the fraudulent ACORN and planned parent videos, then it might be taken seriously. But his track record suggests it is just another conspiracy video to push an agenda, being long on deceptive editing and empty of comments in context.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-10-17 15:38:53  
Phoenix.Xantavia said: »
If only the creator of this video wasn't also behind the fraudulent ACORN and planned parent videos, then it might be taken seriously. But his track record suggests it is just another conspiracy video to push an agenda, being long on deceptive editing and empty of comments in context.

Eh, some of these things are really hard to take out of context. And he's releasing another video tomorrow, supposedly even more revealing than this one.
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By eliroo 2016-10-17 15:39:02  
Phoenix.Xantavia said: »
If only the creator of this video wasn't also behind the fraudulent ACORN and planned parent videos, then it might be taken seriously. But his track record suggests it is just another conspiracy video to push an agenda, being long on deceptive editing and empty of comments in context.

Even a blind squirrel can find a nut occasionally... or maybe "Even a blind nut can find a squirrel occasionally".


Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Really the only people that would have benefited were Patrick Kennedy and Jake Sullivan. Which is why Jason Miller a spokesman for Trump is on circuit today demanding that Clinton immediately disavow Kennedy.

Maybe, I don't understand all the ins-and-outs and I doubt any of us here do. I at least think it is a good basis for speculation.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-10-17 15:50:17  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Phoenix.Xantavia said: »
If only the creator of this video wasn't also behind the fraudulent ACORN and planned parent videos, then it might be taken seriously. But his track record suggests it is just another conspiracy video to push an agenda, being long on deceptive editing and empty of comments in context.

Eh, some of these things are really hard to take out of context. And he's releasing another video tomorrow, supposedly even more revealing than this one.

James O'Keefe does have a career from catering to a particular demographic by creating context and editing out of context to fit his target audience's narrative.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-10-17 15:54:05  
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Even if the US had more parties, how do you folk imagine them working out? ...
I went into that on P4 of this thread.

Garuda.Chanti said: »
...
There are some natural alignments out there.
1, isolationist nationalists, the breitbart - Trump basket of deplorables are the core of this, but not nearly all of it.
2, economic conservative - socially liberal, think blue dog dems + a lot of the non tea party GOP.
3, social conservative - economically liberal, a LOT of the religious right falls here and it should attract most Hispanics and Mormons. (We are seeing this split happening among evangelicals RFN.)
4, social democrats, think Bernie wing....
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-10-17 15:56:48  
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Phoenix.Xantavia said: »
If only the creator of this video wasn't also behind the fraudulent ACORN and planned parent videos, then it might be taken seriously. But his track record suggests it is just another conspiracy video to push an agenda, being long on deceptive editing and empty of comments in context.

Eh, some of these things are really hard to take out of context. And he's releasing another video tomorrow, supposedly even more revealing than this one.

James O'Keefe does have a career from catering to a particular demographic by creating context and editing out of context to fit his target audience's narrative.

So does the whole frickin' news media. It doesn't take away from the Foval said. He's bragging about inciting violence to create a false narrative in the media.

I understand some degree of skepticism, but you guys are bordering on straight denial.
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By eliroo 2016-10-17 15:57:30  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
1, isolationist nationalists, the breitbart - Trump basket of deplorables are the core of this, but not nearly all of it.


You probably could have had a cleaner response without throwing a certain groups opinions under the bus with an underhanded insult.
 
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By eliroo 2016-10-17 16:04:11  
Candlejack said: »
Also, I think it's safe to say James O'Keefe should be sitting in a jail cell next to David Daleiden. Both of them are frauds attempting to incite violence and commit treason.

But throwing Hillary Clinton in jail for committing perjury and treason is a bad idea.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-10-17 16:06:49  
Candlejack said: »
I was wondering what happened to LG
Candlejack said: »
Also, I think it's safe to say James O'Keefe should be sitting in a jail cell next to David Daleiden. Both of them are frauds attempting to incite violence and commit treason.

Hmm, sounds like you have more in common with LG than you'd like to admit. Jailing people without due process for disagreeing with you? Maybe you should be his running mate.
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-10-17 16:10:00  
So the big scandal is that a part of her machine pays plants to attend rallies in order to piss off rally goers who then attack the aforementioned plants because they said something they don't politically agree with?
 
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-10-17 16:14:37  
That is a rhetorical question.

Because I mean, if that's what gets you guys all worked up, then ***you'll love cracking open a college level US History book.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2016-10-17 16:25:08  
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »
Duterte, the president of the Philippines last week said "to all you international human rights groups, you can all go to hell" in response to criticism towards his killing over 3000 drug dealers and drug users while trying to crack down on drug problems in his country.

[Source]

Liquidating surplus population isn't going to solve your drug problems bruv.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-10-17 16:25:53  
eliroo said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
1, isolationist nationalists, the breitbart - Trump basket of deplorables are the core of this, but not nearly all of it.
You probably could have had a cleaner response without throwing a certain groups opinions under the bus with an underhanded insult.
There was nothing underhanded about that insult. Isolationist nationalists would be the home point for xenophobes, white nationalists*, and much of the tea party. Misogynists, misanthropes, and many other low lowlifes, however, are not a natural fit there.

*perhaps black nationalists too, but IDK.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-10-17 16:27:57  
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
So the big scandal is that a part of her machine pays plants to attend rallies in order to piss off rally goers who then attack the aforementioned plants because they said something they don't politically agree with?

In order to create a false narrative that Trump supporters are naturally violent... by training specifically for days to incite violence in people, even using mentally ill people to carry out the work. It's incredibly sleazy, and there is potential law-breaking here too, given the information regarding super PAC communications.

So yes, it is a scandal because it is yet another example of the Clinton campaign using deceitful tactics to influence the minds of the gullible public.
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-10-17 17:35:53  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
So the big scandal is that a part of her machine pays plants to attend rallies in order to piss off rally goers who then attack the aforementioned plants because they said something they don't politically agree with?

In order to create a false narrative that Trump supporters are naturally violent... by training specifically for days to incite violence in people, even using mentally ill people to carry out the work. It's incredibly sleazy, and there is potential law-breaking here too, given the information regarding super PAC communications.

So yes, it is a scandal because it is yet another example of the Clinton campaign using deceitful tactics to influence the minds of the gullible public.

Except, you have to actually bite the bait. So if you're biting on the bait then you have to come to terms that you're responsible for your own actions.
 
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 Odin.Slore
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By Odin.Slore 2016-10-17 17:59:15  
Candlejack said: »
@ Rav, and anyway, it's the God's honest truth that about half of the known Trump supporters out there actually are naturally violent. Look at the following groups: Cliven Bundy's band of morons, the Oathkeepers, the Constitutional Sheriffs. Three groups of highly violent, heavily armed, confirmed traitors to the country.

To be specific, three groups of confirmed traitors who all armed up when the government attempted to function as it should. Cliven Bundy armed up when the Bureau of Land Management attempted to confiscate some of his cattle to auction to cover his unpaid grazing fees, which he still owes. The Constitutional Sheriffs and Oath Keepers armed up at his request and aided in his commission of treason.
All three groups should receive summary trials and swift executions via public hanging as prescribed by the Constitution.

BLM, Black panthers, freedom coalition.... need I go on? Probably not that your even going to acknowledge that there are violent dem groups too.
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By fonewear 2016-10-17 18:02:01  
Candlejack said: »
@ Rav, and anyway, it's the God's honest truth that about half of the known Trump supporters out there actually are naturally violent. Look at the following groups: Cliven Bundy's band of morons, the Oathkeepers, the Constitutional Sheriffs. Three groups of highly violent, heavily armed, confirmed traitors to the country.

To be specific, three groups of confirmed traitors who all armed up when the government attempted to function as it should. Cliven Bundy armed up when the Bureau of Land Management attempted to confiscate some of his cattle to auction to cover his unpaid grazing fees, which he still owes. The Constitutional Sheriffs and Oath Keepers armed up at his request and aided in his commission of treason.
All three groups should receive summary trials and swift executions via public hanging as prescribed by the Constitution.

Are you decent?:

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By fonewear 2016-10-17 18:08:06  
Good God I love me some Rita Hayworth !
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-10-17 18:08:23  
Odin.Slore said: »
Candlejack said: »
@ Rav, and anyway, it's the God's honest truth that about half of the known Trump supporters out there actually are naturally violent. Look at the following groups: Cliven Bundy's band of morons, the Oathkeepers, the Constitutional Sheriffs. Three groups of highly violent, heavily armed, confirmed traitors to the country.

To be specific, three groups of confirmed traitors who all armed up when the government attempted to function as it should. Cliven Bundy armed up when the Bureau of Land Management attempted to confiscate some of his cattle to auction to cover his unpaid grazing fees, which he still owes. The Constitutional Sheriffs and Oath Keepers armed up at his request and aided in his commission of treason.
All three groups should receive summary trials and swift executions via public hanging as prescribed by the Constitution.

BLM, Black panthers, freedom coalition.... need I go on? Probably not that your even going to acknowledge that there are violent dem groups too.

The flaw with using BLM and the Black Panthers as a retort is the assumption that all of its members and participants are democrats. They're not.

You're basically also confirming the hyperbolic notion that all Republicans are white racist xenophobes when you generalize like that.
 
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By 2016-10-17 18:11:09
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-10-17 18:16:48  
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Odin.Slore said: »
Candlejack said: »
@ Rav, and anyway, it's the God's honest truth that about half of the known Trump supporters out there actually are naturally violent. Look at the following groups: Cliven Bundy's band of morons, the Oathkeepers, the Constitutional Sheriffs. Three groups of highly violent, heavily armed, confirmed traitors to the country.

To be specific, three groups of confirmed traitors who all armed up when the government attempted to function as it should. Cliven Bundy armed up when the Bureau of Land Management attempted to confiscate some of his cattle to auction to cover his unpaid grazing fees, which he still owes. The Constitutional Sheriffs and Oath Keepers armed up at his request and aided in his commission of treason.
All three groups should receive summary trials and swift executions via public hanging as prescribed by the Constitution.

BLM, Black panthers, freedom coalition.... need I go on? Probably not that your even going to acknowledge that there are violent dem groups too.

The flaw with using BLM and the Black Panthers as a retort is the assumption that all of its members and participants are democrats. They're not.

You're basically also confirming the hyperbolic notion that all Republicans are white racist xenophobes when you generalize like that.

Oh sure, point out Slore's argument flaws while completely ignoring the fact that CJ make the insane assertion that half of Trump supporters are naturally violent by pointing to a very small handful of people. If you want people to take you seriously, Zero, you might not want to buddy up with a guy so mentally out there that even most of the liberals in here cringe at his insane rhetoric.
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By fonewear 2016-10-17 18:19:38  
Saying people are violent is relative. I mean more violent than what ? Some caveman out there killing deer to survive ? Give me a reference point junior !
 
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-10-17 18:23:17  
Free speech and peaceful protest = training to specifically provoke people to violence. Keep up the good work, CJ. Destroy your last shred of credibility.
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