Random Politics & Religion #08

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2010-06-21
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Random Politics & Religion #08
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2016-07-26 17:51:19  
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Istanbul (CNN)Captured military officers raped by police, hundreds of soldiers beaten, some detainees denied food and water and access to lawyers for days. These are the grim conditions that many of the thousands who were arrested in Turkey face in the aftermath of a recent failed coup, witnesses tell Amnesty International.
Detainees awaiting trial have been beaten and tortured in official and unofficial holding centers in Istanbul and Ankara since the July 15 coup attempt by parts of Turkey's military, Amnesty International reported this week.

The group cites interviews with detainees' lawyers, doctors and a person who was on duty at one of the centers in Ankara.

"The grim details that we have documented are just a snapshot of the abuses that might be happening in places of detention," John Dalhuisen, Amnesty International's Europe director, said in a statement Sunday.
Turkish Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag denied the allegations, accusing Amnesty's sources of lying and being part of the movement behind the coup attempt.
More than 10,000 people have been detained, Amnesty International said. More than 9,000 were soldiers, though 1,200 troops have been released, the government said.
Life one week after Turkey coup
Here's a look at some of the allegations, according to Amnesty International:


• Many detainees are being kept in informal holding centers, such as a sports hall at the Ankara police headquarters and some riding club stables in the city.
• Detainees say they saw police officers raping senior military officers with batons or fingers, according to two lawyers in Ankara.
• A person who'd been on duty at the Ankara police headquarters claimed to have seen a severely beaten detainee who lost consciousness with large swelling on his head. Police allegedly denied that detainee medical treatment. "Let him die. We will say he came to us dead," the witness quoted a police doctor as saying.
• Up to 800 male soldiers were being held in the Ankara police headquarters sports hall, a source there said, and at least 300 showed signs of having been beaten, with bruises, cuts or broken bones, the source said. About 40 could not walk, and a woman detained separately from men had bruising on her face and torso, the source said.
• Detainees were brought before prosecutors for interrogation with their shirts covered in blood, lawyers said.
• Many detainees were handcuffed behind their backs with plastic zip ties and forced to kneel for hours, the interviewees said.
• Detainees alleged that police deprived them of food for up to three days and water for up to two days, according to the interviewees.
• More than 10 lawyers were interviewed, saying most of their clients were held for at least four days before being charged. In most cases, the detainees had been held without ability to talk to relatives or the attorneys before their hearings.
• In most cases, neither the clients nor their attorneys were informed of specific charges, the lawyers said.
• "These are grave violations of the right to a fair trial which is enshrined in both Turkey's national law and international law," Dalhuisen said.
• "In the vast majority of cases, (lawyers) said that no evidence establishing reasonable suspicion of criminal behavior was presented against their clients during the charge hearings ... (and) lawyers explained that judges ordered detained soldiers to be placed in pretrial detention if they left their barracks the evening of the coup, regardless of the reason," Amnesty International said in a statement.


Amnesty International said it wanted the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture to send people to check on detainees' conditions.
Bozdag, the Turkish justice minister, said that "no individual was tortured or mistreated during or after their detention."
"Accusations of torture and ill-treatment are unfounded," he said, blaming them on supporters of cleric Fethullah Gulen, whom President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has accused of orchestrating the upheaval.
Gulen, a longtime rival of Erdogan's who denies involvement in the coup attempt, lives in self-imposed exile in the United States.
The roundup of suspected coup plotters is not the only government response to the uprising.

Under a new presidential decree following the attempted coup, suspects can be detained for as long as 30 days without charge, and the government can listen in on all conversations they have with their attorneys.
A three-month state of emergency declaration issued Thursday grants Erdogan new sweeping powers to implement the detention measures.
How people in Turkey feel about the failed coup
Besides the arrests, Turkey's government has launched a sweeping purge of institutions and individuals suspected of having ties to Gulen.
Obama: U.S. was not involved in Turkish coup attempt
Authorities have fired or suspended at least 50,000 people from various institutions, including judges, teachers, soldiers, police and journalists. Even the state-run Turkish Airlines has not been exempt from the crackdown, with the company announcing Monday that 211 employment contracts had been terminated.
Turkish authorities have issued arrest warrants for 42 journalists, state-run news agency Anadolu reported Monday.
Reporters Without Borders has slammed the Turkish government's treatment of journalists following the political upheaval.
Johann Bihr, the head of the organization's Eastern Europe and Central Asia desk, said that democracy "cannot be protected by trampling on fundamental freedoms."
"The wholesale and arbitrary nature of the attacks on the Turkish media in the past week seems to reflect a desire to exact revenge and bring them into line. It is time the authorities put a stop to this," Bihr said in a statement.

Reporters Without Borders ranks Turkey 151st out of 180 countries for press freedom.
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2016-07-26 18:02:15  
Nice NATO ally right there.
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-26 18:07:47  
fonewear said: »
And no Trump didn't become a billionaire/Presidential candidate by feeling. He did it by winning !

He did it by taking daddy's money and using it to buy land in NYC, one of the most sure-fire ways to make money in the past century as long as you have millions to get the ball rolling in the first place.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-07-26 18:10:53  
Juggernautx said: »
The important thing is we enjoy the conversations we're having here today, because after President Trump takes office, we'll have jobs and won't be able to talk on here as much, since we'll be working fulltime
Wait, do you think most here post from HOME?

Have you ever noticed how slow the posts here accumulate on weekends? And outside of 9 - 5?

And where are Trump Suits made? ....
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-26 18:10:58  
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
And no Trump didn't become a billionaire/Presidential candidate by feeling. He did it by winning !

He did it by taking daddy's money and using it to buy land in NYC, one of the most sure-fire ways to make money in the past century as long as you have millions to get the ball rolling in the first place.
Don't forget all the investor's he's screwed over with his enormous pile of failed business ventures.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-26 18:13:24  
I like the implication that if Trump gets elected and actually manages to deport 11.4 million illegal immigrants, that all the unemployed people in the United States are going to flock to the shitty minimum wage fast food and factory jobs that can't actually fix being in poverty.
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By fonewear 2016-07-26 18:16:10  
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
And no Trump didn't become a billionaire/Presidential candidate by feeling. He did it by winning !

He did it by taking daddy's money and using it to buy land in NYC, one of the most sure-fire ways to make money in the past century as long as you have millions to get the ball rolling in the first place.

And what is wrong with being successful ?
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By fonewear 2016-07-26 18:17:02  
We have a successful politician running against a successful businessman. I'll take a businessman over a politician any day.
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-26 18:17:24  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
And no Trump didn't become a billionaire/Presidential candidate by feeling. He did it by winning !

He did it by taking daddy's money and using it to buy land in NYC, one of the most sure-fire ways to make money in the past century as long as you have millions to get the ball rolling in the first place.
Don't forget all the investor's he's screwed over with his enormous pile of failed business ventures.

But that's the American way! *** other people over for your own personal gain, let those suckers twist! Caveat emptor, ***!
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By fonewear 2016-07-26 18:18:32  
Ramyrez said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
And no Trump didn't become a billionaire/Presidential candidate by feeling. He did it by winning !

He did it by taking daddy's money and using it to buy land in NYC, one of the most sure-fire ways to make money in the past century as long as you have millions to get the ball rolling in the first place.
Don't forget all the investor's he's screwed over with his enormous pile of failed business ventures.

But that's the American way! *** other people over for your own personal gain, let those suckers twist! Caveat emptor, ***!

Well if you don't like that don't become a business person. I don't know any billionaires that are "nice guys".
 
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-26 18:19:42  
fonewear said: »
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
And no Trump didn't become a billionaire/Presidential candidate by feeling. He did it by winning !

He did it by taking daddy's money and using it to buy land in NYC, one of the most sure-fire ways to make money in the past century as long as you have millions to get the ball rolling in the first place.

And what is wrong with being successful ?

Because he didn't do anything difficult!

He made money in a sure-fire fashion with money that was given to him, not earned.

Which in and of itself is fine. There's nothing wrong with passing on your fortune to your heirs and them making more money with it.

But ever since he put foot outside of the sure-fire owning-land-in-NPC arena, he's had more failures than successes, because even if he's maintained his own wealth, he's done so walking all over other people.

Which may make him a "successful" businessman in the broadest, shittiest-person-but-winning-at-being-a-greedy-*** sense, but that's exactly the kind of person you don't want as your building superintendent, let alone president of the mother-*** United States.
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By fonewear 2016-07-26 18:20:54  
Greed is good don't let those hippies brain wash you. The world runs on greed not on living in a hippie commune.
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By fonewear 2016-07-26 18:22:04  
Being a bad person or having poor character has never prevented anyone from becoming President. Look at Slick Willy Jimmy Carter and I could go on...
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-26 18:24:10  
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
And no Trump didn't become a billionaire/Presidential candidate by feeling. He did it by winning !

He did it by taking daddy's money and using it to buy land in NYC, one of the most sure-fire ways to make money in the past century as long as you have millions to get the ball rolling in the first place.

And what is wrong with being successful ?

Because he didn't do anything difficult!

He made money in a sure-fire fashion with money that was given to him, not earned.

Which in and of itself is fine. There's nothing wrong with passing on your fortune to your heirs and them making more money with it.

But ever since he put foot outside of the sure-fire owning-land-in-NPC arena, he's had more failures than successes, because even if he's maintained his own wealth, he's done so walking all over other people.

Which may make him a "successful" businessman in the broadest, shittiest-person-but-winning-at-being-a-greedy-*** sense, but that's exactly the kind of person you don't want as your building superintendent, let alone president of the mother-*** United States.
Somebody's salty.
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-26 18:25:01  
fonewear said: »
Greed is good don't let those hippies brain wash you.

No, ambition is good.

Ambition means you get creative and learn to dig a pit to trap game so it doesn't run you over when it's four-ton body is barreling at you.

Greed should, realistically in the biological sense, mean you get trampled by a *** bull elephant when you get too big for your britches and try to snag a calf off the herd.
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-26 18:25:54  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Somebody's salty.

Saltier than yo mama's drawers in a Texas heatwave.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-26 18:26:59  
fonewear said: »
Being a bad person or having poor character has never prevented anyone from becoming President. Look at Slick Willy Jimmy Carter and I could go on...
Well, no ***. And obviously for a lot of people, it's not a factor.

But it is for some. If only because I don't want a loudmouth dumbass starting more wars than we're already in because he doesn't have an ounce of self control.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-26 18:29:29  
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
Greed is good don't let those hippies brain wash you.

No, ambition is good.

Ambition means you get creative and learn to dig a pit to trap game so it doesn't run you over when it's four-ton body is barreling at you.

Greed should, realistically in the biological sense, mean you get trampled by a *** bull elephant when you get too big for your britches and try to snag a calf off the herd.
Problem is, what one person considers ambition, a liberal considers as greed.
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By fonewear 2016-07-26 18:30:01  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
fonewear said: »
Being a bad person or having poor character has never prevented anyone from becoming President. Look at Slick Willy Jimmy Carter and I could go on...
Well, no ***. And obviously for a lot of people, it's not a factor.

But it is for some. If only because I don't want a loudmouth dumbass starting more wars than we're already in because he doesn't have an ounce of self control.

If he doesn't have self control how did he managed to be so damn successful ? Luck ? I mean anyone that runs a business has to have control.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-26 18:30:22  
Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Somebody's salty.

Saltier than yo mama's drawers in a Texas heatwave.
A) Wait, what? Did you insult yourself even worse?

B) I appreciate making fun of my dead mother. Would you like to try for any of my other deceased family members?
 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-26 18:30:54  
I don't see how standing on a pile of your now-ruined supporters can be considered good. At all.

But maybe that's just me.
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By fonewear 2016-07-26 18:31:04  
You can attack Trump's personality all you want but I really don't care if he is the biggest *** in the world. I'm voting for him because I think he can lead the country. Not win a popularity contest.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-26 18:32:01  
fonewear said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
fonewear said: »
Being a bad person or having poor character has never prevented anyone from becoming President. Look at Slick Willy Jimmy Carter and I could go on...
Well, no ***. And obviously for a lot of people, it's not a factor.

But it is for some. If only because I don't want a loudmouth dumbass starting more wars than we're already in because he doesn't have an ounce of self control.

If he doesn't have self control how did he managed to be so damn successful ? Luck ? I mean anyone that runs a business has to have control.
He hired people who are vastly better than him to make big decisions as far as his real estate business goes.

Almost all of his other ventures have crashed and burned because he had no idea what he was doing..
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-26 18:32:53  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
I don't see how standing on a pile of your now-ruined supporters can be considered good. At all.

But maybe that's just me.
Seems to work for every democrat in office, and most out of office.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-26 18:33:59  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
fonewear said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
fonewear said: »
Being a bad person or having poor character has never prevented anyone from becoming President. Look at Slick Willy Jimmy Carter and I could go on...
Well, no ***. And obviously for a lot of people, it's not a factor.

But it is for some. If only because I don't want a loudmouth dumbass starting more wars than we're already in because he doesn't have an ounce of self control.

If he doesn't have self control how did he managed to be so damn successful ? Luck ? I mean anyone that runs a business has to have control.
He hired people who are vastly better than him to make big decisions as far as his real estate business goes.

Almost all of his other ventures have crashed and burned because he had no idea what he was doing..
Are you positive about that, or are you quoting Chris Mathews again?
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-26 18:35:23  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
I don't see how standing on a pile of your now-ruined supporters can be considered good. At all.

But maybe that's just me.
Seems to work for every democrat in office, and most out of office.
Yeah, except they aren't campaigning on the idea of "Man, I'm such a good businessman! Please ignore my humiliating failures."
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-26 18:35:43  
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »
fonewear said: »
I'm voting for him because I think he can lead the country.
I'm very sorry to hear that. His behavior has proven that he has no idea how to run your country.
Wait, do you honestly believe Clinton's better?

Shall we bring out the very long laundry list of personal issues associated with Clinton?
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