Random Politics & Religion #08

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Random Politics & Religion #08
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By 2016-07-21 18:56:47
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-07-21 18:57:59  
Anna Ruthven said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
-Woman poses nude? Don't *** shame.
-Woman has no interest in having sex with you/someone you know? Don't call her a prude.
-Woman wears a low cut blouse? Don't drool like an imbecile and give unwanted compliments or follow her home.
-Woman shows an interest in geek culture? Don't interrogate them about ***no one actually cares about to prove she's not as geeky as you.
All of this is spot on; women should be able to do whatever they want, that's not a foreign thought to most people. The delivery of these facts is where feminism turns into a joke. When you have a woman front and center saying "shut up, and listen to me, and check your privilege you cis-het white male piece of ***!" That's when your message turns from advocacy for gender equality to a mass of anger which internet trolls find funny.

Let me deconstruct this

Quote:
Woman poses nude? Don't *** shame.

*** shaming is something women do to other women, men like ***.

Quote:
Woman has no interest in having sex with you/someone you know? Don't call her a prude.

This is thought control. The rejected party has a right to think whatever the *** they want to think, good or bad.

Quote:
Woman wears a low cut blouse? Don't drool like an imbecile and give unwanted compliments or follow her home.

This one is just plainly wrong. Men will notice an attractive women in a revealing outfit. This is basic biology. Compliments are a form of positive reinforcement, they aren't negative. Furthermore men can't read minds, we don't know if a compliment is wanted or unwanted until after it's given.

Now I'm going to really break that last one down. What she's really saying is "I don't unattractive men noticing me". An attractive male noticing her and giving her a compliment is a desired result, she would blush and flirt back. An unattractive male doing the same action would be called creepy and get socially rejected. Same female, same situation, same action, the out difference is the attractiveness of the male.

Again this is basic biology, humans are programmed to respond favorably to members of the opposite sex who are attractive / fertile. This response is centered in the subconscious (oh gee that again) and is a way of promotion our species to continue itself by making lots of babies. Seeing how most of you insist on remaining ignorant on the source of this behavior, its simply not a reasonable expectation that the average human would be able to effectively suppress and manipulate this biological response.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-21 18:59:32  
Anna Ruthven said: »
I guess my main point is this; you can get much, much further without anger.
Tell that to our founding fathers. We went to war when non-aggressive actions weren't working.

Nor for the Civil Rights movement. MLK Jr. pushed the non-aggressive envelope as best he could until he died, but progress was slow going. After he died, the people that took up the mantle after him were far less non-aggressive and ***started getting done at a much faster rate.

Anna Ruthven said: »
Rae, with all due respect, as soon as someone starts talking feminism they come off as extremely angry and confrontational. You are normally fine to talk to but as soon as someone brings up feminism you seem angry out of nowhere.

If you drop the anger and speak in a way that isn't aggressive or confrontational or angry, people may listen more closely to what you're saying.

A lot of the anti-feminist memes I see focus on how angry and belligerent the subject is.
My second message was at Mr. "I can only be with docile women" Savael.

Admittedly pointless, because he can't deal with people not bowing before his superiority complex and blocked me a few weeks ago.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:00:26  
Candlejack said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Reason I assumed this purely because Quinn posed nude for Suicide Girls and I didn't think a feminist would be ok with being sexualized in that way.
The whole thing is about women begin able to do things they want without being judged or disadvantaged. By anyone.

Y'know, within reason.

-Woman poses nude? Don't *** shame.
-Woman has no interest in having sex with you/someone you know? Don't call her a prude.
-Woman wears a low cut blouse? Don't drool like an imbecile and give unwanted compliments or follow her home.
-Woman shows an interest in geek culture? Don't interrogate them about ***no one actually cares about to prove she's not as geeky as you.
All comes back to what I said earlier. "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".
This cuts both ways, for both sides. Someone on the right sees a transgendered person going into the restroom they identify as? Keep your mouth shut and mind your own business. So long as no laws are being broken then who gives a ***who pisses or shits where? A toilet's a toilet and they all lead to the same sewer eventually anyway, and we should all be aware there are already laws against voyeurism and child pornography on the books that pre-existed North Carolina's infamous HB2 law.

No if you don't have something nice to say ... say it on the internet !
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-07-21 19:00:45  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
I was a second generation feminist. I was never angry. I had a LOT of fun.

Like burning bras* and draft cards in the same blazing trash can. Partying and getting laid afterwards.

I tend to be more angry today but not about feminist stuff. Today's anti feminists are total misogynists, even calling for the repeal of the 19th amendment. I do not blame today's feminists for their anger.

*I kept a spare in my purse.
I don't really think those people in question are so much anti-feminist as they are simply misogynists. It's the "all men are rapists" stuff that strikes me as funny. Let's accuse an entire gender of a serious crime and expect to be taken seriously. I still say that such rhetoric is a slap in the face to anyone who has actually been raped. The word rape is becoming too common and it's losing it's impact, it should never lose it's impact.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:02:55  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
I was a second generation feminist. I was never angry. I had a LOT of fun.

Like burning bras* and draft cards in the same blazing trash can. Partying and getting laid afterwards.

I tend to be more angry today but not about feminist stuff. Today's anti feminists are total misogynists, even calling for the repeal of the 19th amendment. I do not blame today's feminists for their anger.

*I kept a spare in my purse.

Tell the third wave feminism it's going to be ok you don't have to hate men all the time !
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-07-21 19:04:10  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
I tend to be more angry today but not about feminist stuff. Today's anti feminists are total misogynists, even calling for the repeal of the 19th amendment. I do not blame today's feminists for their anger.

You have the cause effect reversed.

Third wave feminists got super militant, super angry and all about "all men are just rapists in hiding". The whole "check your unearned male privilege before speaking to me" type ***. This kind of angry offensive misandry got shoved down young men's throats in universities and eventually those men responded. That response was anger and rejection of feminist ideology. The sisterhood united and all sorts of ***started. And like radical feminism, some in the mens rights movement radicalized but unlike radical feminist those individuals have very little power, hell MRM in general has almost zero power because you know, "*** men".

Anyhow got errands but I'm sure the radical feminists will be all fire and pitchforks.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:04:35  
I'll say something women don't want to hear but should. Men and women aren't equal and they never will be.

And there is nothing wrong with that.
 
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By 2016-07-21 19:05:31
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-07-21 19:05:41  
Anna Ruthven said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
I was a second generation feminist. I was never angry. I had a LOT of fun.

Like burning bras* and draft cards in the same blazing trash can. Partying and getting laid afterwards.

I tend to be more angry today but not about feminist stuff. Today's anti feminists are total misogynists, even calling for the repeal of the 19th amendment. I do not blame today's feminists for their anger.

*I kept a spare in my purse.
I don't really think those people in question are so much anti-feminist as they are simply misogynists. It's the "all men are rapists" stuff that strikes me as funny. Let's accuse an entire gender of a serious crime and expect to be taken seriously. I still say that such rhetoric is a slap in the face to anyone who has actually been raped. The word rape is becoming too common and it's losing it's impact, it should never lose it's impact.

Do you know what Misogyny is? Misandry?

Get a good understanding of those before throwing them out like labels.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-07-21 19:06:40  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
I guess my main point is this; you can get much, much further without anger.
Tell that to our founding fathers. We went to war when non-aggressive actions weren't working.

Nor for the Civil Rights movement. MLK Jr. pushed the non-aggressive envelope as best he could until he died, but progress was slow going. After he died, the people that took up the mantle after him were far less non-aggressive and ***started getting done at a much faster rate.

Anna Ruthven said: »
Rae, with all due respect, as soon as someone starts talking feminism they come off as extremely angry and confrontational. You are normally fine to talk to but as soon as someone brings up feminism you seem angry out of nowhere.

If you drop the anger and speak in a way that isn't aggressive or confrontational or angry, people may listen more closely to what you're saying.

A lot of the anti-feminist memes I see focus on how angry and belligerent the subject is.
My second message was at Mr. "I can only be with docile women" Savael.

Admittedly pointless, because he can't deal with people not bowing before his superiority complex and blocked me a few weeks ago.
Persistence, not anger. For a personal example, if I mod someone and they come to me, call me a fascist, a Nazi, etc. they probably aren't going to do anything but be ignored. If, however, they will come and talk it out in a civilized manner, I'm more likely to tweak things to help them.

Anger is off-putting.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:08:55  
Anna Ruthven said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
I guess my main point is this; you can get much, much further without anger.
Tell that to our founding fathers. We went to war when non-aggressive actions weren't working.

Nor for the Civil Rights movement. MLK Jr. pushed the non-aggressive envelope as best he could until he died, but progress was slow going. After he died, the people that took up the mantle after him were far less non-aggressive and ***started getting done at a much faster rate.

Anna Ruthven said: »
Rae, with all due respect, as soon as someone starts talking feminism they come off as extremely angry and confrontational. You are normally fine to talk to but as soon as someone brings up feminism you seem angry out of nowhere.

If you drop the anger and speak in a way that isn't aggressive or confrontational or angry, people may listen more closely to what you're saying.

A lot of the anti-feminist memes I see focus on how angry and belligerent the subject is.
My second message was at Mr. "I can only be with docile women" Savael.

Admittedly pointless, because he can't deal with people not bowing before his superiority complex and blocked me a few weeks ago.
Persistence, not anger. For a personal example, if I mod someone and they come to me, call me a fascist, a Nazi, etc. they probably aren't going to do anything but be ignored. If, however, they will come and talk it out in a civilized manner, I'm more likely to tweak things to help them.

Anger is off-putting.

Wait your a mod ?
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:09:26  
You'll have to forgive me I can't read.
 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-21 19:10:48  
And I get that. But what do you do when someone in your position has absolutely no desire to help, regardless of your disposition?

What happens is you get sick of it and decide to push the issue. And after you have to do this 90184907127319 times? You start giving zero *** about how you treat the next person because you have no reason to believe this person is going to be any better than the others before them.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:10:53  
You're *
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-07-21 19:13:14  
fonewear said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
I guess my main point is this; you can get much, much further without anger.
Tell that to our founding fathers. We went to war when non-aggressive actions weren't working.

Nor for the Civil Rights movement. MLK Jr. pushed the non-aggressive envelope as best he could until he died, but progress was slow going. After he died, the people that took up the mantle after him were far less non-aggressive and ***started getting done at a much faster rate.

Anna Ruthven said: »
Rae, with all due respect, as soon as someone starts talking feminism they come off as extremely angry and confrontational. You are normally fine to talk to but as soon as someone brings up feminism you seem angry out of nowhere.

If you drop the anger and speak in a way that isn't aggressive or confrontational or angry, people may listen more closely to what you're saying.

A lot of the anti-feminist memes I see focus on how angry and belligerent the subject is.
My second message was at Mr. "I can only be with docile women" Savael.

Admittedly pointless, because he can't deal with people not bowing before his superiority complex and blocked me a few weeks ago.
Persistence, not anger. For a personal example, if I mod someone and they come to me, call me a fascist, a Nazi, etc. they probably aren't going to do anything but be ignored. If, however, they will come and talk it out in a civilized manner, I'm more likely to tweak things to help them.

Anger is off-putting.

Wait your a mod ?
No, I joined a gang, our colors are green and our sign is some ***from Naruto.

Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
And I get that. But what do you do when someone in your position has absolutely no desire to help, regardless of your disposition?

What happens is you get sick of it and decide to push the issue. And after you have to do this 90184907127319 times? You start giving zero *** about how you treat the next person because you have no reason to believe this person is going to be any better than the others before them.
Yeah, I get that but to that next person, they are the first one you've spoke with on the issue. If you're speaking rudely, no they won't help you.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:16:04  
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Pretty sure Sarkeesian is just in it for the money, she probably doesn't believe half the ***she says or even play video games.

Oh she does this communist *** is a prostitute for George Soros who funds her. He got her to the United Nations to talk ***about how video games demonize women and funds black Lives Matter sowing division in the United States much like both the Democrat and Republican parties do which also take donations fr Soros.

Finally someone that gets it !
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:17:02  
She is a professional victim and being a victim pays pretty well it seems !
 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-21 19:17:05  
I'm not saying it's good behavior. But this '
militant
' feminism stuff didn't come out of nowhere.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-07-21 19:19:54  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
I'm not saying it's good behavior. But this '
militant
' feminism stuff didn't come out of nowhere.
Well, it isn't helping the cause. So good luck in your cause with the loudest voices treating people that way.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:20:15  
As long as you label yourself a feminist be prepared to endure all that comes with that.

No woman has to be part of a group or ideology.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-07-21 19:21:04  
I should also add that despite my thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian, she keeps it together and doesn't project her point through rage.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:22:31  
Anna Ruthven said: »
I should also add that despite my thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian, she keeps it together and doesn't project her point through rage.

She is a provocateur. Tries to get people to respond angrily then uses their rage for profit.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-07-21 19:24:20  
fonewear said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
I should also add that despite my thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian, she keeps it together and doesn't project her point through rage.

She is a provocateur. Tries to get people to respond angrily then uses their rage for profit.
That's what Milo Yiannopoulos is also.
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By fonewear 2016-07-21 19:26:18  
I thought Milo was a Greek yogurt...guess that is a real person.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-07-21 19:38:07  
Anna Ruthven said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
I'm not saying it's good behavior. But this '
militant
' feminism stuff didn't come out of nowhere.
Well, it isn't helping the cause. So good luck in your cause with the loudest voices treating people that way.
Well, when the opposition is shouting just as loudly...
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-07-21 19:40:19  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
I'm not saying it's good behavior. But this '
militant
' feminism stuff didn't come out of nowhere.
Well, it isn't helping the cause. So good luck in your cause with the loudest voices treating people that way.
Well, when the opposition is shouting just as loudly...
If they are shouting at feminists, I highly doubt they are in any photo help get things done.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-07-21 19:40:43  
Position, not photo.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-07-21 19:49:11  
Asura.Saevel said: »
...
Men will notice an attractive women in a revealing outfit. This is basic biology. Compliments are a form of positive reinforcement, they aren't negative. Furthermore men can't read minds, we don't know if a compliment is wanted or unwanted until after it's given.
Your "complements" are never wanted. Just be happy that you don't live in a stand your ground state and most women aren't armed.

"I felt threatened...."

And as to what we want. Rape is NEVER what we want. And there was a serial rapist in Seattle who specialized in women older than I.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-07-21 20:03:46  
Perhaps the issue is equating the entire philosophy with the loudest and most extreme elements.
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