BREXIT Just Happened... |
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BREXIT Just happened...
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Posts: 376
I miss Miliband.
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: » Nigel Farage and the MEPs yesterday was pure gloating. Definitely can tell he has an axe to grind. What a speech by Nigel. The sound bites had me rolling. Love him or hate him, you can't deny his entertainment value. lol.
YouTube Video Placeholder Quetzalcoatl.Eradius said: » Bahamut.Kara said: » Also this is not about refugees, but about EU nationals. Makes more sense when you provide the details, thank you. Aren't multiple countries handing out visas and residency to the refugees- is it really then only about the previous EU nationals? I wonder what the EU would be like right now if last year never happened sometimes. Free movement is granted to EU nationals Once a refugee is granted a visa they must reside within their host country unless they apply for permission for a specific purpose (work, study, and vacation in some instances) to visit another member country. They are treated as any other third country national outside their host country. Examples individual country asylum process: Denmark Germany UK Before a refugee receives a visa they can travel in an "irregular pattern" through many countries (within and outside the EU) based on the ECHR (European court of human rights) Odinz said: » I miss Miliband. Offline
Posts: 376
Bloomberg interview with Greenspan about Euro - gets interesting at 4th minute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec9i_iGCj80 Offline
Posts: 376
"You're not laughing now" by Farage responded to by shouts of "traitor" and boos in EU Parl.
YouTube Video Placeholder Bismarck.Leneth said: » I still have hope that this will be stopped, or more accurately that article 50 will never be triggered. I think no matter what this has created (or illustrated) divisions within the UK that is going to take years if not decades to mend. Both sides will hold significant grudges if article 50 is triggered or not, which will not stop the uncertainty that the UK is currently undergoing. Bismarck.Leneth said: » I also don't like the saying by figure heads of the EU and national states: 'out is out'. It's so not like the usual EU. I read these statements as when article 50 is triggered there is no remedy to take this back. So, if they leave, then they leave and if they want to come back in they will have to undergo the same process as new members. To me that is an acceptable stance, especially in the face of the sheer amount of uncertainty the UK has laid at their doorstep. Untangling the UK from the EU is a huge undertaking. This is going to require new legislation from all member countries beyond the EU level if the UK only ends up negotiating for third country member status, if they only want to trade under WTO rules. When the EU politicians keep stating that the UK cannot keep the EU in a state of uncertainty, I can completely understand that. There are many, many issues that will need to be addressed that cannot be until the UK gives a formal declaration. At the same time I understand that the UK needs to get their house in order before making any decisions that cannot be unmade. With two parties undergoing change in leadership and potentially new parties set to make bids, with Scotland and Northern Ireland unamused at the result, there is a lot of uncertainty as to who will even be leading and negotiating the the UK exit (or, like many have theorized who will be leading if the UK doesn't exit). All around this is a huge event that has ripple effects and consequences that are completely unknown. It has also illustrated -to me- why an integrated European plan was developed in the first place. Odinz said: » I miss Miliband. Will be interesting what happens when the Chilcot report is published next week. Offline
Posts: 376
I've been doing a lot of reading and watching old Farange addresses and videos - in 2008 he warned that the way the European Union was pushing forward with undemocratic policies would lead to a dangerous rise in nationalism in Europe.
He wasn't wrong and it might come to the surprise of many that he wasn't for nationlists coming to power, on the contrary he feared it and its repercussions. I think we should not be so fast to paint everyone with broad brushstrokes and lump him together with the likes of Marine Le Pen. Quote: Bahamut.Kara Quote: Bismarck.Leneth I still have hope that this will be stopped, or more accurately that article 50 will never be triggered. I think no matter what this has created (or illustrated) divisions within the UK that is going to take years if not decades to mend. Both sides will hold significant grudges if article 50 is triggered or not, which will not stop the uncertainty that the UK is currently undergoing. It's okay to be selfish in an opinion. Quote: Bismarck.Leneth I also don't like the saying by figure heads of the EU and national states: 'out is out'. It's so not like the usual EU. Quote: Bahamut.Kara I read these statements as when article 50 is triggered there is no remedy to take this back. So, if they leave, then they leave and if they want to come back in they will have to undergo the same process as new members. To me that is an acceptable stance, especially in the face of the sheer amount of uncertainty the UK has laid at their doorstep.... Schulz was the only voice I heard that, while still very pushy with his 'solving this by Tuesday!' demand, said that the brittish people could still decide and declare not to trigger article 50 despite of the referendum. That impression got stronger after Merkel changed her waiting in patience position from day one to a 'I can't think of any way for the UK to stay' stance, after phone talks with EU-heads and the leader of France and Italy on day two. I would be okay with the words if they meant what you think they meant. As for the rest what you wrote, I know that, and those things are the reasons why I hope for a situation (like the one I described) that allows them to remain. Just heard:
Johnson won't candidate, The candidate May still wants Brexit despite being in the campaign for Bremain. So one hope is down. Asura.Calatilla said: » I think a lot of people voted out just to stick it to Cameron, but now they're regretting backing the wrong horse. I know a few people personally who voted leave just because they think Cameron is a ***. And people say they can't see how this is so similar to people voting for Trump. Ugh. Offline
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Ramyrez said: » Asura.Calatilla said: » I think a lot of people voted out just to stick it to Cameron, but now they're regretting backing the wrong horse. I know a few people personally who voted leave just because they think Cameron is a ***. And people say they can't see how this is so similar to people voting for Trump. Ugh. How dare you make disparaging remarks about Trump in the wrong thread ! fonewear said: » Ramyrez said: » Asura.Calatilla said: » I think a lot of people voted out just to stick it to Cameron, but now they're regretting backing the wrong horse. I know a few people personally who voted leave just because they think Cameron is a ***. And people say they can't see how this is so similar to people voting for Trump. Ugh. How dare you make disparaging remarks about Trump in the wrong thread ! Because it's applicable! YouTube Video Placeholder Why is nationalism considered a four letter word?
Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Why is nationalism considered a four letter word? Probably because by and large, in the modern era, it results in little positive payout, and is largely used as a tool of division by leaders to drive people apart. Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Why is nationalism considered a four letter word? Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Why is nationalism considered a four letter word? Because it stands in the way of a socialist revolution. Patriotism was one of the primary reasons cited for there failing to be the world wide socialist revolution that Marx predicted would happen. Citizens identified more with their countries then they did with their socioeconomic class and thus the proletariat didn't band together to overthrow the bourgeois. Patriotism was considered a really positive thing until a certain period of time, look at what started happening then to see where the current "all your countries suck, join our worldwide multiculturalist movement". The love of ones country, people and culture is never a bad thing. Asura.Saevel said: » The love of ones country, people and culture is never a bad thing No, it isn't. But doing so to the point where you hate others is a terrible thing. And that's the thing about it. Much like "feminism," the term no longer means what it should mean and instead stands for extreme viewpoints that will not listen to reason. Ramyrez said: » Asura.Saevel said: » The love of ones country, people and culture is never a bad thing No, it isn't. But doing so to the point where you hate others is a terrible thing. And that's the thing about it. Much like "feminism," the term no longer means what it should mean and instead stands for extreme viewpoints that will not listen to reason. Hmm well a quick bit of research by me seems to suggest feminism is primarily promotion equality for women, now granted women are less equal than men but there are some areas where women have an advantage.
I should really stop I'm going very off topic. One way or another, the term has been hijacked to refer to very radical, unreasonable women (in b4 a "that's all of them" joke).
Much like nationalism/patriotism -- while not bad things on the surface -- have really become terms to describe some rather unreasonable people. Ramyrez said: » One way or another, the term has been hijacked to refer to very radical, unreasonable women (in b4 a "that's all of them" joke). Much like nationalism/patriotism -- while not bad things on the surface -- have really become terms to describe some rather unreasonable people. Asura.Saevel said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Why is nationalism considered a four letter word? In case you have forgotten all of the most socialistic European countries have strong nationalistic movements. So sorry you can only view the world through one outdated lens. Cerberus.Tidis said: » Hmm well a quick bit of research by me seems to suggest feminism is primarily promotion equality for women, now granted women are less equal than men but there are some areas where women have an advantage.... Hey Mr fish, do you need this bicycle? Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Ramyrez said: » One way or another, the term has been hijacked to refer to very radical, unreasonable women (in b4 a "that's all of them" joke). Much like nationalism/patriotism -- while not bad things on the surface -- have really become terms to describe some rather unreasonable people. Well the "wall" thing has always seemed more symbolic to me than literal. Fences seem less expensive to maintain and are equally as effective in this fashion, if we're going to think very -- pun not intended -- concretely. That said, I agree with you. But that's really only loosely tied to "nationalism." What's being derided are things like what I posted a few pages ago. The "go home Polish vermin" thing. Yes, that's a minority view (at least, I hope?). But that's the nastier side of nationalism that rears its head in situations like this. There's patriotism and national pride -- which are great, vital things -- and there's arrogance, conceit, and disdain. Unfortunately, for some it's a package deal and they can be a very vocal, very visible subset. |
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