Random Politics & Religion #05

Unless they are written in chalk!



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No, but you don't see the bigger picture or what was expressed.


That is where you got lost.

Xenophobia is not exclusive to America. Countries that don't have "illegal immigration problems", have "immigration problems" that are hot button topics. Coincidentally members of the population share the same disdain for legal immigrants that people in the US feel for illegal immigrants.

So yes, in the instance of a US citizen trying to legally relocate to a nation in Europe they will be met with the same rhetoric and anger that illegal immigrants often time face in the United States.

Which at the end of day is the great irony. Even if illegal immigration were fixed people would still *** about immigrants. That's probably why US politicians pay the topic lip service for the sake of votes the majority of the time.

Legal immigrants in the US now -and historically- have been met with the same (and sometimes more) rhetoric and anger than illegal immigrants face.

Many citizens who do not like illegal immigrants also have problems with how legal immigrants are granted visa's or citizenship. Refugees from war-torn countries granted asylum, H1-B's who are paid significantly less than native citizens, and children born on US soil who's parents are illegal immigrants, are a few instances that come to mind. These legal immigrants still face the same -if not more anger- than illegal immigrants in the US.

In Denmark there is a political party that has been gaining ground since 2007 that doesn't like any immigrant, legal or otherwise. The immigration rules have changed 5 times in the 8 years we have lived here. Their goal is to make it as difficult, expensive and convoluted as possible for anyone but a native Dane to receive the same rights as Danes. Then there are Danes who don't necessarily agree with that extreme but still feel any job held by a third country national (citizen from outside EU) should be given as an absolute last resort, then those individuals should be taxed more, and have limited to no access to the benefits those taxes pay for.

Immigration (both legal and illegal) is and has always been a hot button issue in ALL parts of the world.

Depends on the location actually.

If you are talking about California, New England, or pretty much everywhere else besides South Texas, that may be true (I don't know, I didn't see any of that when visiting places around the US, but then again, I never stayed for long).

South Texas (mostly in the valley and San Antonio region), however, that's not true.

There's a lot of respect given to people here, and immigrants, legal or not, are given the same respect as everyone else.

I'm sure somebody is going to post something stating otherwise, but very few instances do not make the whole region look that way. Bigots are everywhere. If you are going to label a group based on one individual's traits, then might as well label the entire human race that way too, including yourself.

But mostly, South Texans do not treat immigrants, legal or not, with that type of *** you may find elsewhere.

I'll see your illegal immigrant discussion and raise you Latin's for trump:

*** this site: Latino *

Tell you what we will send all the illegal immigrants from Mexico to Denmark.

Some merely take issue with this because it's destroying the IT industry, and is being severely abused by those who bribed Congress to expand it.

It's intent was to bring people in where talent was lacking, not for companies to save money by hiring cheaper foreign labor.

Looking at you Suntrust, and almost Disney.

That being said certain sections of the field are still severely overpaid and others underpaid. But that's a multifaceted issue.

Not just IT, but yes. The purpose of H1-B was to fill gaps, and it's basically being used for wage suppression. I have zero problems with fully legal immigrants taking those jobs, though, even if they're doing it cheaper. There is literally nothing more American than legal immigration. This is the melting pot!

My objection is completely around companies that are using it as a cost-cutting tool. Suntrust in particular makes me sad, because they've been very good as a personal bank, but once the house I have that's got a mortgage through them sells, we won't be back.

The problem with the immigration debate in America is that the campaign contributing class is quite fond of cheap immigrant labor.

Doesn't matter which aspect, from illegal farm workers, to legal construction workers, to H1-A unskilled and H1-B skilled workers, they are all cheaper than we Americans. And a steady stream of "campaign contributions" means that any solution to "the immigration problem" will include more wage competition from immigrants, not less.

Yeah, it's definitely more than IT. Yeah I was looking at a second bank a few months ago and I refused to go to them for that very reason. I was told that's no reason to not go to a bank. My retort was that there isn't a better reason to not give somebody your business.

But yeah, we're in full agreement.

What is wrong with cheap labor ?

That is you assuming again..



/sigh You've been lost apparently..

You do realize that most H1-B jobs are negotiated, right?

Most cultures don't do negotiations. They see the offer and take it, even though the employers are expecting negotiations for the employment.

I'm sure somebody is going to say "exploitation" or some other crap like that. But it's not true.

I keep forgetting that Illegal Immigration is the same as EVERY OTHER type of immigration..

People must just use the different terms to sound smart.

To be fair, we're taught the historical and cultural contributions of Hispanic influences in Texas from a very early age. I don't know, but I would assume California emphasizes the same. I don't think I'm going out on a limb by thinking CA would look upon Tijuana as TX does Matamoros or Juarez with apprehensive speculation. Given the stereotypes about East Texas, though (which are easily confirmed by some fairly recent instances)...

When I see Massachusetts and Michigan, here, wringing their hands over immigration here, it warrants a well deserved brow raise and a snigger.

So southern states had to deal with illegal immigration longer and think that listening to states that are farther north now filling with illegal immigrants (I say now, when it has been happening for decades, w/e) deserve a brow raise and a snigger. Do you seriously expect an objective conversation here or did you just stop by to stir the pot?

Apparently you do not go to NYC ever. Try finding a American store owner or American taxi driver.

I came here to stir the melting pot.

Too many chunks of bigots rising to the surface, not enough middle ground.

How is demanding a law to be enforced considered bigotry?

Look at some of the laws being demanded to be enforced. Quite a few of them specifically target certain groups of immigrants, both legal and illegal.

More and more people are in favor of the ridiculously zealous laws, and pushing aside any kind of middle ground that would enforce specific laws that actually need enforcing, and reconstructing the other immigration laws from their racist/bigoted tones to be more appropriate and adherent to the US Constitution.

Started out we was just talking about the illegal ones.


You are ignoring the past few pages where the complete oppisite is happening and people are out in force tying to change the conversation away from.


Yourself included.

Being from Massachusetts, most of the people here who complain about it are usually thinking about the ones that come for work (mostly in restaurants) in the summertime, but that's kinda silly because there's never really a shortage of positions (partly due to very high turnover). The rest who complain are just straight up bigots.

More hate language from the left. /sigh

Oh jeez. "Stirring the pot" is saying you might lack the exposure and education to allot people mutual respect?

Also, if you're not familiar with the Goodnight-Loving Trail, then I guess you wouldn't understand the significance of putting TX, NM, AZ and CA together. You have a hell of a resource for knowledge at your fingertips and you seem to be at a loss for context repeatedly.

Can a conversation ever take place here where the left doesn't bring up hate language of any kind or is that what it always comes down to with you people? Can't make an argument without calling people "insert hate word here"?

You can do better than that?

Because you have an innate inability to actually make an argument, much less a coherent one.

When I said that the bigoted and racist tones need to be eliminated from the laws trying to be enforced - that's because they NEED to be. They target both legal and illegal (can't really have a conversation about one side of the coin, without including the other, when both are smack dab in the middle of the whole issue) immigrants, and ignoring all the context that goes along with such issues, is mindlessly plodding along, and using that as an excuse to remove yourself, or bash others for bringing it up, isn't even trying to beholden yourself to the same standards you pin on others.

I am suggesting, very strongly, the bigoted and racist language be removed from those laws, so that they actually conform to the US constitution you so devoutly admire (or admonish when it doesn't suit your personal views) to actually be constitutionally correct and binding. This is the part that eluded you: I am not saying to do away with the laws around immigration, just restructure them so they are more efficient and enforceable, rather than specifically target certain groups of immigrants. Make them apply universally.

Do you even know why America is called the Great Melting Pot of the world?

This last line of yours, shows you completely missed the whole point, and have no desire to participate in the conversation at an intellectual level other than to brush off those who have a different opinion that is in direct opposition to your own, and comes down to a "No u!" argument, and doesn't, in any way make sense with my last comment.