Ambuscade Findings

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2010-06-21
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Ambuscade Findings
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 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2016-07-21 01:53:49  
Whats up with this months Intense Amb on D or VD. Haven't started farming points for the month yet.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 02:05:31  
What do you mean exactely with "What's up"?
Intense is against a group of goblin, normal is against a Bennu-type of Bird which regularly summons adds.

Goblin is doable (unlike Quadavs) but it's a pain for several reasons I won't bother to explain. I don't really suggest to do it, in the time you do one Intense VD runs you can easily do 3+ Normal VD runs.

Normal is against a Bird greatly weak to piercing and somewhat resistant to blunt, magic and slashing.
Each time he uses "Feather Barrier" he summons adds. Until adds are dead he becomes virtually impervious to damage.
Adds are Apkallus, Cockatrice, Colibris and uhm... maybe something else that I forgot.
They too are weak to different source of damage and all are resistant to piercing. I think *** is weak to Blunt, Colibri to Slashing and Apkallu to magic?
They're not too hard to kill either way regardless of the source of damage, unless you're in a very weak PUG I guess.

Can find more details if you search these boards.
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2016-07-21 02:10:01  
Thanks Sechs! I knew about Normal runs but hadn't heard much Intense this month and didn't see anything on BG Forum and I had figured this months info would of been posted in this thread.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 02:24:59  
Goblins you basically have to split the group of mobs from the main nm and keeping them separated and at a certain distance (basically need two tanks).
If you don't do that they're gonna do a special move once separated (Divided We Fall?) and if you keep them all together they're gonna do another (United We Fall?).
Both moves basically mean you're kinda gonna wipe.

Keep them separated, kill the main boss (Don) then everything else. The BLM is lullabyable the rest of them is immune to sleep/lullaby.


It sounds ok on paper but it's actually much harder because of some hate reset moves, some wonky hate things which makes it difficult to keep them separated and it's basically a big pain to do this fight for many other reasons which is exactely why I don't consider it an efficient way to be farming Hallmarks because in the same time you do one Intense VD (supposing your group can even do it) you can easily do 3+ Normal VD, like I said before.
And Normal is so easy it doesn't really require an incredibly good group, can easily go with a PUG without worrying too much.
I suggest to do Intense on VE just to do the Monthly-roe and farm an Abdhalys seal to be using on next month's (august) Ambuscade.
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By Asura.Chiaia 2016-07-21 02:44:55  
Ah well guess every month can't have an easy Intense fight. I'm all about Hall Marks/ hour so will stick with VD normal then. Thank you going into even more detail Sechs.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 02:56:27  
Yeah... so far it's been Orcs (easy), Quadav (kinda impossible), Yagudo (pretty easy?) and Goblins (possible but not worth it).
Wonder what's gonna happen with next month :x
Really hope intense will be doable because farming 20k points with 300points a run is so... excruciating.

I know I sound like a lil' whiney *** but I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to farm 20k points again next month going with 300points each run :x
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By Asura.Darvamos 2016-07-21 03:01:22  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Yeah... so far it's been Orcs (easy), Quadav (kinda impossible), Yagudo (pretty easy?) and Goblins (possible but not worth it).
Wonder what's gonna happen with next month :x
Really hope intense will be doable because farming 20k points with 300points a run is so... excruciating.

I know I sound like a lil' whiney *** but I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to farm 20k points again next month going with 300points each run :x
I couldn't stand farming 14.5k before. I might just stick with 14.5k each month and be 1 off each month for now. Total BS they made that last 1 5.5k more points then +1 body.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 03:07:38  
Well I'll have to draw a line somewhere for the 4th augment slot on capes.
With max one 4th slot per month, I don't really see me getting a 4th slot on ALL of my capes, to my great discontent.

Good attempt SE trying to artificially extend Ambuscade's duration as an event through such cheap means, but it won't work with me.
I see me doing Ambuscade until september included maybe. Really doubt I'll manage to bother after that.
Maybe if a particularly fun Intense fight comes out, but *** farming 20k points with 300points/run again, really I might be exagerating but it's been one of the most boring, stressing things I've been doing in FFXI over the last months.
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By Mookies 2016-07-21 05:12:08  
300 points / fight is brutal.

Does nobody test these fights before they're released?
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2016-07-21 05:21:23  
300 per fight is ok if all you want is the +1 hallmark gear. Gallantry is pretty stupidly handled, though.

Farming hallmarks/Gallantry for upgrade items is pretty much asking to be frustrated. Then again, some people may only have this left to clear, in which case, well, ***.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2016-07-21 05:43:39  
Gallantry caps same time as Hallmarks if you do everything in 6-man, so I think Gallantry is fine. The issue I think is KI acquisition. KI should be sold for gil, acquired as currently is, and/or last for an hour or so.
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By Asura.Brennski 2016-07-21 05:52:45  
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Well I'll have to draw a line somewhere for the 4th augment slot on capes.
With max one 4th slot per month, I don't really see me getting a 4th slot on ALL of my capes, to my great discontent.

Good attempt SE trying to artificially extend Ambuscade's duration as an event through such cheap means, but it won't work with me.
I see me doing Ambuscade until september included maybe. Really doubt I'll manage to bother after that.
Maybe if a particularly fun Intense fight comes out, but *** farming 20k points with 300points/run again, really I might be exagerating but it's been one of the most boring, stressing things I've been doing in FFXI over the last months.

I feel you Sechs, I've barely managed to do 1 cape a month since we could do Orcs not being able to mix it up with Intense and Regular really made it dull for and then add in the single trade of each item for a cape and I just go meh got all the base ones I need now so if I feel like it or the gear looks useful for my jobs I'll do a few runs and grab some of the 4th slot items.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 06:00:10  
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Gallantry caps same time as Hallmarks if you do everything in 6-man, so I think Gallantry is fine. The issue I think is KI acquisition. KI should be sold for gil, acquired as currently is, and/or last for an hour or so.
The way they designed KI acquisition was a way to force people to zone out and lose a certain amount of time farming KI. Some people faster, some people slower.

It's an artificial way to slow down people doing the BC in an attempt to reduce the server-stress on the silly zone they chose to use for Ambuscade.

Now we know this choice of them didn't prove to be enough, but without this things would have been EVEN worse, and they would've been forced to put a time-gating, like "one KI per vana'diel day max", which clearly they wanted to avoid.



I'm not saying I like the way they went to address this thing, just trying to explain what was their very likely reasoning behind the choice.



Edit:
I completely agree with you with Gallantry being fine.
Gallantry was a subtle way to incentivate group play (again: to reduce the number of people soloing/lowmanning, again: with the goal of reducing server load. More people entering as a group = less people going solo/lowman = less server stress, shorter queues)
They could've thought something better for sure, but by itself Gallantry is fine imho.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2016-07-21 06:07:28  
I understand why they did it. But Ambuscade congestion is down now, the queue system is in place. Let it be 10k gil per person per attempt to buy the KI (since we have too much gil production in game and it's causing inflation). Cheap people can go farm KI if they so choose too. Or let the KI last for an hour or so. This'll let you just spam the fights, which will be sooooo much easier to do without 2ish zones and gathering up and AOEing mobs, etc.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 06:16:11  
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
But Ambuscade congestion is down now
Eeeh I wouldn't say it's down.
During some times, especially on weekends, there's still long wait.
The other day I had 15-20 mins queues and we're talking about a couple of days ago.
Granted the situation is overall MUCH better, it's not like that 24/7 and I think part of the reason it's like that is because some people just stopped bothering about Ambuscade ALSO because of the annoying KI system.

Call me a pessimist but I think if they were to remove that and let you buy it directly in Mhaura things would suddenly become much much worse than they are now.

But yeah I agree with you the KI system is incredibly annoying.
I fear to remove it they would just have to use a different zone or an entire new server-side instancing system or whatever else. Clearly something they have not the resources for (or the will...) atm.
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-21 06:27:39  
They should have made (kept) ambuscade like legion.

-Clear first wave get 300/150 points hallmark/gallantry (122 content)
-Clear second wave get 600/300 points hallmark/gallantry(128 content)
-Clear third wave get 900/450 hallmark/gallantry points (135 content)

Total: 1,800 hallmark points and 900 gallantry for clearing all 3 waves.

To mix things up, add a 4th wave - super hard content (145+) that can randomly spawn with rare and exclusive drops to ambuscade, and another 1,800/900 hallmark/gallantry points.

Have the option to enter with 6, 12 or 18 people. Every additional party grants a bonus to stats.

Mix up the waves so that you need a well rounded party.
First wave basic tank and spank.
Second wave some kiting and crowd control.
Third wave some positioning mechanics.
Mega boss: idk, I can't solve everything for you SE. Make it PW or AV.

Restrict entry to Once per Vanadiel Day.

Lo and behold more reason to do ambuscade, more reason to include more people, more jobs and not be exclusive, less grind and more challenge.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2016-07-21 06:30:41  
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Gallantry caps same time as Hallmarks if you do everything in 6-man, so I think Gallantry is fine. The issue I think is KI acquisition. KI should be sold for gil, acquired as currently is, and/or last for an hour or so.
That's the issue, people.

A lot of the time I can't "afford" to play with people, whether it's because there aren't enough people online/interested or me having very short timme on hands. I was happy to see that I could solo it and make hallmarks but I was sad to see that it was impossible for me to farm the set from the previous month because of that limitation.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2016-07-21 06:31:27  
Anything challenging is going to be exclusive. That's the nature of the beast. When you need to fine tune things you start picking and choosing setup.
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-21 07:06:53  
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Anything challenging is going to be exclusive. That's the nature of the beast. When you need to fine tune things you start picking and choosing setup.

The game is too exclusive right now, more exclusive than its ever been.

I don't know if the dwindling population is isolated from the fact that the dev team has made content require much less people/bodies than it did during the 75 days, or if it is actually cause and effect. Either way, I think increasing the number of people and jobs required to do something would go a long way towards breathing some life into the community. Right now FFXI is less of an MMO as it is a lobby server LOL type of platform.

Was the old FFXI that bad? surely it was better than this.

Maybe they could increase party sizes, from 6 to 8?

In the old XI low-man's proved that you really didn't need all the extra bodies, but having them wasn't a problem either (providing they didn't trigger a fatal mechanic like spike flail). It allowed for more participation.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2016-07-21 07:18:15  
I don't think old FFXI was really that much better. Standard Fafnir setup would include what, BRD, RDM, WHM, PLD, BLM? Maybe a SAM for SC but not really necessary? Kirin was PLD + WHM + SMN's or BLM's to DD kiting over the course of 1-4 hours. Most bosses turned into NIN and /NIN all the things.

You're right in that because there was no penalty for bringing extra people you could toss people in even if they were useless, but nowadays that would make some content either stupid hard for 6-man or extremely easy with 18-man. I mean if you could kill Schah with 6 people and it didn't get any more stats 18-man would laugh at that fight.
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By Asura.Azriel 2016-07-21 07:31:56  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Call me a pessimist but I think if they were to remove that and let you buy it directly in Mhaura things would suddenly become much much worse than they are now.

+1 yeah i think it will get even worse for obvious reasons.


Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
You're right in that because there was no penalty for bringing extra people you could toss people in even if they were useless


Thats what they call the /good ol times/? Is that really what ppl miss? - Unno man i am glad we dont drag 12 DRGs with silly piercing swords to ***just because :/
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2016-07-21 07:55:38  
Asura.Azriel said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Call me a pessimist but I think if they were to remove that and let you buy it directly in Mhaura things would suddenly become much much worse than they are now.

+1 yeah i think it will get even worse for obvious reasons.


Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
You're right in that because there was no penalty for bringing extra people you could toss people in even if they were useless


Thats what they call the /good ol times/? Is that really what ppl miss? - Unno man i am glad we dont drag 12 DRGs with silly piercing swords to ***just because :/
The BLM with no idle/different nuking sets was just as useless as the DRG with a slash/blunt sword (why would they get a piercing sword?). And nowadays, if they didn't slap most of those damage reduction stats on every piece of gear, it'd be no different (actually, it's no different, most people think I full time my idle set).

I don't think you guys realize what is a weight and what isn't. Then again, back in HNM days, 4/6 people per alliance carried while the rest thought they were legitimate. It has always been like this and it is even stronger nowadays since said weight have access to everything easily and think they are legitimate easily.

I'd rather bring that DRG with a sword from my LS than tell the guy "no, if you come it'll get more HP, we can't afford it". But actually, said DRG would have more job variety nowadays than back then, so it's a moot point. Said guy would come as BLM, GEO, COR, whatever, he'd get mostly carried but he'd fit.

But no, we can't bring him because of the HP mechanic, or we have to do multiple runs. Nice.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 08:44:48  
This is going to get into the same old useless discussion, most of us agrees the current scaling system, if not bad as a concept, is at least very bad in how it has been implemented (only HP scales, and steps are too steep).
Add to that time limits which aren't long enough for some fights and you get the picture.


I think we need to differentiate between a completely dead-weight (i.e. someone that does literally nothing or close to that inside an alliance) to someone which could do something, bring some utility, but not enough to justify the rise in difficulty which comes mainly from the additional HP, and secondarily from the additional TP feed, faster elemental resistance building etc etc.

Tbf I still think (and unlike the scaling system this problem isn't new) that the "Monster gets TP by getting hit" has always been incredibly wrong for a core mechanic shared by every monster in the game.
I mean it's fine for random ***, it's fine for specific NMs because you want to make them special, but the "basic rule" should be that NMs get TPs through their own means, mostly fixed stuff, not also by how much/often they get hit from players.

Yes srsly, having that as basic mechanism for EVERYTHING was really a shortsighted and stupid move. Surprised they never bothered to simply change that instead of adding means to try to circumvein it like AGI>TPfeed and SubtleBlow and other stuff (all of which proved to be very very marginal in its efficiency)
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 08:50:12  
Blazed1979 said: »
Was the old FFXI that bad? surely it was better than this.
Toughest question in the world.

For some things insanely better, for others totally not.
Different times, different standards. Can judge today's FFXI with those days standards, and can't judge the old FFXI with nowadays's standards.

There are so many things I miss about the game and the feelings in the game from back then, and likewise so many things I complain about nowadays' FFXI.
But despite that, I doubt I would like to go back to a game like that, now in 2016.
Not for more than a couple of days/weeks at least.
I think I'm a very different person/player than I was back then, and the gaming standards and my need are also very different. My perspective on things is so different...
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-21 09:07:07  
Asura.Sechs said: »
But despite that, I doubt I would like to go back to a game like that, now in 2016.
What was good and what was bad?
There were many more players back then than there are now.
How has the player population changed?
Whats different about you in 2006-2008 and now in 2016?

Serious questions by the way, not sarcasm or rhetorical. I'm curious.
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-07-21 09:12:03  
Blazed1979 said: »
Was the old FFXI that bad? surely it was better than this.

It was horrible.

"End Game" was ruled by whomever's LS bought the best claim bot. Getting gear required you sell your soul to a HNMLS and wait out six months to a year and hope you get lotting privileges over the leaders new girl friend. Xping a job to 75 took a year worth of effort. You would sit in Port Jeuno for hours waiting for a shout and hope you were able to get in. You would then spend the next 30 minutes traveling to camp, only for someone to screw something up and take another 30 minutes before starting. You would XP an hour or two but then someone would have to leave and the party would break. Some parties were so bad that you left having less XP then you started with.

Gearing past the 50's got incredibly expensive unless you were one of the few who know how to exploit certain gil making methods. Gear become a hard requirement due to Level Correction Penalty being applied to harshly. Botters would camp every NM that dropped anything useful and monopolize it such that prices remained high for a very long time. Updates were done once every six to twelve months and there was virtually no form of English feedback. Level 30 gear was dropped from level 40~50 monsters and it stayed that way until 75.

I could go on and on about how *** up ***used to be. Players stayed because the job and gear system enables a level of versatility of play that doesn't exist in most games. Of course SE being idiots and trying to make stuff "harder" resulted in most of that versatility being impractical.
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By Asura.Akaden 2016-07-21 09:14:11  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Was the old FFXI that bad? surely it was better than this.
Toughest question in the world.

For some things insanely better, for others totally not.
Different times, different standards. Can judge today's FFXI with those days standards, and can't judge the old FFXI with nowadays's standards.

There are so many things I miss about the game and the feelings in the game from back then, and likewise so many things I complain about nowadays' FFXI.
But despite that, I doubt I would like to go back to a game like that, now in 2016.
Not for more than a couple of days/weeks at least.
I think I'm a very different person/player than I was back then, and the gaming standards and my need are also very different. My perspective on things is so different...

This is probably the best way to pose an answer to that question.

For me, I do kind of miss the old FFXI, but I miss it within its context. If I were to play old FFXI again, the only way I would enjoy it is if I were back in time during the period I was playing, with the people I was playing with. When I had a hell of a lot more time to play.

But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy today's FFXI. I have much less time to play than back then. Most of us do. Today's FFXI reflects the current players a lot more than an older FFXI would today.

Is one better than the other? This is an extremely subjective question. It will vary player-to-player as much as Oseem's shitty Dark Matter augments vary. And it's important to remember that this game is about having fun. If you're no longer having fun, stop playing and find something that is..
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-07-21 09:25:33  
For those complaining about "content", back at 75 content lasted forever due only to artificial time blocks. Sky lasted 3~4 years due to timed pop requirements to even fight any of the Gods. An entire "event day" was hours spend "building pops" by farming the various NMs, some of which were on a 3~4 hour pop window and you bad batter hope nobody else was out there. Another day would be actually kill those Gods, with a third being Kirin or some other even like Dynamis. You could only enter Dynamis twice a week, and only one group per sever could participate. Limbus was a little better, still could only do once per week, still had to build "pop sets" from multiple runs, and still only one group per zone per server. The good point was that there were separate zones with smaller timers so you could rotate around. Sea was more farming "pop sets" with atrocious drop rates, hours and hours spent farming pops.

This was FFXI "back at 75", lots of time waits, lots of artificial limits to stop us from progressing through content. Low drop rates of anything good, which when combined with those limits and everyone needing the same stuff, ended up with extremely long times required to acquire your drops. Then Abysesa happened with much faster building of pop sets, much better drop rates and so forth. Tanaka attempted to "return to 75" by creating an event that had both time locks and poor drop rates, aka Voidwatch, which was universally hated by all precisely for those reasons. We had gotten used to Abyssea's faster content pace and the *** that was Voidwatch loot pissed everyone off. Everything after that has been done so that the player can progress through content at a decent rate, with hard core players burning it down in days and then complaining about it.
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-21 09:35:48  
Asura.Akaden said: »
Oseem's shitty Dark Matter augments vary
***i forgot to go and try for todya's lol, thanks for the reminder.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-07-21 09:42:40  
Asura.Saevel said: »
For those complaining about "content", back at 75 content lasted forever due only to artificial time blocks.
Very very very true.
But the "pace" of the game was so much slower.
The pace at which you levelled up. Hell I was playing a lot and it took me over 1 year to even bring ONE job to 75.
Gear you managed to get was there to last a pretty long time.
When new gear came out it was mostly sidegrades, and very rarely completely outshadowed previous options.
Everything was so incredibly slow.
Moving, teleporting, gathering, levelling, meriting, getting pops, blahblah.

And frankly it was... quite acceptable back then. Would it be as acceptable today? I hardly doubt it. The MMO world changed a lot and people have experiencing those things so many times across different games (or the same one) that nothing feels fresh anymore, as it obviously did back then.
Those are two very important aspects to consider, imho.



Quote:
aka Voidwatch, which was universally hated by all precisely for those reasons.
I'd say partially Legion too, for different reasons though.
Point is that it was too late back then.
Even if those events had some awesome game design aspects (a couple of things were good, c'mon!) the point is that by then we had been TOO SPOILED by years of Abyssea.
Which I enjoyed thoroughfully, don't get me wrong.


It's like we were used to speed through a small street with a very slow car.
Then they give you an 8 lanes highway and a Ferrari and tell you there's no fuel limit and no time limit and let you ride that for free for years.
Then they give you back your small slow car you had before.
You used to LOVE that car, honestly. But after riding on a Ferrari for years... you see things from a different perspective.


This is just a silly and generalized example, but I think it represents a lot what happened those days. We were all spoiled to the point the game was beyond repair.
And I think Developers knew that would've happened. They simply didn't bother because they thought "Meh, FFXIV is coming out, FFXI will die soon, let the game die with a bang as we gain some time".
They didn't think about FFXI's future because they had no plans at all for FFXI's future if not its death.
Thinks went differently, as we all know, but by then it was impossible to "repair" some things and some balancements.
Matsui and his team did what they could.
Reasonably they did a lot of mistakes too and so many things could've gone better, but regardless of that I'm pretty confident they couldn't have been able to pull off the "miracle" that some people in here are demanding, that was just not realistic or possible imho.
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